Clearing the air on Pakistani Sikhs

[Doctor09]

Example no.5 ..ooooooopppppppppps

 

[53fd]

 

[FKPcamper]

Example no.5 ..ooooooopppppppppps

dude...i get it... you dont see me putting up clips of amir/salman/shah rukh/ abdul kalam/ javed akhtar.. trust me they will outnumber yours (1.2Bn ppl after all! )

my question is more to do with ppl outside of defense/politics/showbiz. Your doctors, lawyers,engineers, businessman, academics etc. etc.

---------- Post added at 05:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

FKPcamper, what you have written is purely what you have experienced on a personal level. I have a Pakistani father & an Indian mother (who surrendered her Indian citizenship when she married my Dad in Pakistan), & family in both Pakistan & India. I've been to India a few times as well. I think Pakistani & Indian societies are very similar. This is my assessment of Indian & Pakistani society:

1) India overall is a more liberal country than Pakistan, Pakistan is conservative.

2) Opportunities to excel in all walks of life for minorities are similar in both countries. Contrary to common belief, minorities in Pakistan are involved in all fields of life in Pakistan, & the only thing they can't be is the PM/President of the country, they can be anything else they want to. Their involvement in Pakistani affairs is quiet, but significant.

3) I feel minorities in Pakistan are given better protection than the minorities in India, & there is less bias of LEA against minorities in Pakistan. The security problems Muslims in Pakistan have faced are greater than what minorities in Pakistan have faced.

4) In Pakistan, some religious minorities (especially poor people) might want to keep their distance from the majority Muslims. In India, it is similar as well to an extent. There is a better understanding of minorities in India though, than of minorities in Pakistan, partly because minorities in Pakistan like to keep their distance from the majority, & live peacefully. There are poor minority neighborhoods in both Pakistan & India. But in Pakistan, the poor people live in poor neighborhoods, regardless of religion. Minorities never manage to have problems finding housing in Pakistan based on their religions, which even rich minority people in India do, just because of their religion.

5) In India, while there is a general acceptance of diversity, there is also a "secular Indian-ness" that is expected on some levels. The overly religious people in India can sometimes be perceived wrongly in India, & people might not think they are patriotic enough. In Pakistan, such diversity is not accepted (unless you're in Karachi, or Islamabad to a lesser extent), so if minorities want to remain "closed off" from the majority in Pakistan, they are free to do so peacefully. We do not suspect any of our citizens regardless of religion to be a spy or something.

Thanks for your post although the statement " Opportunities to excel in all walks of life for minorities are similar in both countries." is a tad contradictory - given the fact that a minority cannot become the PM/President of Pak.

your statement regarding lesser bias against minorities in Pak is also a tad contradictory as a result.

In my humble opinion - if Pak is a muslim state, they should have no qualms about being open and saying that they do in fact favour muslims.

 

[Doctor09]

Example no. 6 ..... listen to him

 

[53fd]

dude...i get it... you dont see me putting up clips of amir/salman/shah rukh/ abdul kalam/ javed akhtar.. trust me they will outnumber yours (1.2Bn ppl after all! )

my question is more to do with ppl outside of defense/politics/showbiz. Your doctors, lawyers,engineers, businessman, academics etc. etc.

 

[Areesh]

who is sajjan kumar? if you're unable to answer and/or understand the very simple & non-confrontational question I put forward to members here, it's probably a good idea for you to channel your (pubescent?) rage elsewhere. Might i suggest taking up a martial art or playing a sport?

Well if you don't know about Sajjan Kumar I am further assured that it is no "love" or "sympathy" with Sikhs but some urge of trolling about "minority persecution in Pakistan" on a Pakistani forum. And I don't need your advice. You need to give such advice to yourself. You need it more.

 

[FKPcamper]

I will put forth the question once again.. outside of defense/politics/showbiz is what I am enquiring about.

Please dont make me post a list of famous indian muslim freedom fighters/politicians/actors.... the list is too long and it will be a lot of work for me

---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:58 PM ----------

Well if you don't know about Sajjan Kumar I am further assured that it is no "love" or "sympathy" with Sikhs but some urge of trolling about "minority persecution in Pakistan" on a Pakistani forum. And I don't need your advice. You need to give such advice to yourself. You need it more.

so to show sympathy with them i MUST know who every single person is who ever wronged the sikh community? I suppose marrying someone from their community does not show that I respect not only her but her people and community?

I assume then that you can list every single person who has ever wronged a minority in pakistan?

you are warped dude... you have some serious issues... can you leave this thread to the big boys beta?

 

[53fd]

Thanks for your post although the statement " Opportunities to excel in all walks of life for minorities are similar in both countries." is a tad contradictory - given the fact that a minority cannot become the PM/President of Pak.

I thought you weren't considering people related to defense/politics/showbiz? I think you're the one that's the tad contradictory. In the regular fields of life, minority involvement in Pakistan is significant, but appears less prominent.

your statement regarding lesser bias against minorities in Pak is also a tad contradictory as a result.

There is less outward bias against minorities from the regular Pakistani society, especially when many minorities kind of keep themselves separated from the majority. Minorities in Pakistan do not have problems in finding housing on the basis of religion like there is in India. There is a lot more communalism in India than there is in Pakistan.

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

I will put forth the question once again.. outside of defense/politics/showbiz is what I am enquiring about.

Working in the Ministry of Finance is outside of defense/politics/showbiz.

 

[Doctor09]

LAHORE: Young Sikh students of Islamic Republic of Pakistan are making a niche for themselves in Pak society with their academic capabilities with more and more Sikhs becoming professionals including doctors,professors and some making top notch posts in defense services.





Lack of facilities from the Pak government including reservation for Sikhs have not even deterred them in the strong competitive world but they desires that Pak government encourage Sikh students .

They also want Sikh organizations spread across the globe especially Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee , Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee etc. to not only promote religious traffic between two nations or don't target only development of Gurdwara's but to also set up educational institutions for the Sikh boys and girls who were equally brilliant to outshine anyone .

Recently Pakistani Sikh national. Harcharan Singh has made headlines across the globe for being the first Sikh officer in the Pak army. Sikhs are posted as doctors in government services, they are lecturers besides being businessmen. Sikh population counts to nearly 32000 in Pakistan.

DR. Mahipal Singh said he was proud to be a first Pakistani Sikh doctor ."There is no dearth of talent , the only need is to groom the existing talent " said he while adding that SGPC should set up educational institution for the Sikh boys and girls .He said though the Sikhs were a minority community in Pakistan yet they were not given any reservation as given to Christians. "Sikhs children could bring accolades to Pakistan if nurtured well" said he while suggesting the government to promote education among Sikh children of Pakistan.

Mastan Singh, former head of Pakistan Sikh Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee said Sikhs should be given more representation in the government."There should be at least four MPA and one MNA from Sikh community ". He said many Sikh students qualifies for various posts
but were not selected due to reservation policy .

Ramesh Singh who has done MBA and working in a multinational company at Islamabad said that most of the young generation of Sikh now studies in professional colleges of Pakistan and few of they get placed in big companies. He appeal to the government of Pakistan for fee relaxsations for the Sikh students.

Kalyan Singh a post graduated Sikh from Nankana said that rich and influential Sikhs and Sikh organizations should come forward with plans of setting up of school and colleges for Sikh boys and girls. "namaj tae kacchi maseet vich vee pari ja sakdi hai" (One can even worship in a decrepit mosque " said he.

While talking to Punjab Newsline.com, DR. Pritpal Singh, convener American Gurdwara Parbhandhak Committee said that we have not only been working for the uplift of the Sikh Shrines situated in Pakistan but also helping Sikh children in their studies. However he said we would urged Pak government for the relaxation for the Sikh community in education and other field as they have proved their abilities.

 

[53fd]

If you're really interested in knowing how minorities live, & are perceived in Pakistan (instead of your trolling), you can read it here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/144897-outside-hindu-temple-karachi.html

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------

LAHORE: Young Sikh students of Islamic Republic of Pakistan are making a niche for themselves in Pak society with their academic capabilities with more and more Sikhs becoming professionals including doctors,professors and some making top notch posts in defense services.





Lack of facilities from the Pak government including reservation for Sikhs have not even deterred them in the strong competitive world but they desires that Pak government encourage Sikh students .

They also want Sikh organizations spread across the globe especially Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee , Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee etc. to not only promote religious traffic between two nations or don't target only development of Gurdwara's but to also set up educational institutions for the Sikh boys and girls who were equally brilliant to outshine anyone .

Recently Pakistani Sikh national. Harcharan Singh has made headlines across the globe for being the first Sikh officer in the Pak army. Sikhs are posted as doctors in government services, they are lecturers besides being businessmen. Sikh population counts to nearly 32000 in Pakistan.

DR. Mahipal Singh said he was proud to be a first Pakistani Sikh doctor ."There is no dearth of talent , the only need is to groom the existing talent " said he while adding that SGPC should set up educational institution for the Sikh boys and girls .He said though the Sikhs were a minority community in Pakistan yet they were not given any reservation as given to Christians. "Sikhs children could bring accolades to Pakistan if nurtured well" said he while suggesting the government to promote education among Sikh children of Pakistan.

Mastan Singh, former head of Pakistan Sikh Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee said Sikhs should be given more representation in the government."There should be at least four MPA and one MNA from Sikh community ". He said many Sikh students qualifies for various posts
but were not selected due to reservation policy .

Ramesh Singh who has done MBA and working in a multinational company at Islamabad said that most of the young generation of Sikh now studies in professional colleges of Pakistan and few of they get placed in big companies. He appeal to the government of Pakistan for fee relaxsations for the Sikh students.

Kalyan Singh a post graduated Sikh from Nankana said that rich and influential Sikhs and Sikh organizations should come forward with plans of setting up of school and colleges for Sikh boys and girls. "namaj tae kacchi maseet vich vee pari ja sakdi hai" (One can even worship in a decrepit mosque " said he.

While talking to Punjab Newsline.com, DR. Pritpal Singh, convener American Gurdwara Parbhandhak Committee said that we have not only been working for the uplift of the Sikh Shrines situated in Pakistan but also helping Sikh children in their studies. However he said we would urged Pak government for the relaxation for the Sikh community in education and other field as they have proved their abilities.

No, that's not what the OP was looking for, this is not outside of defense/politics/showbiz. Whatever we provide for him, it won't stop him trolling.

 

[FKPcamper]

I thought you weren't considering people related to defense/politics/showbiz? I think you're the one that's the tad contradictory. In the regular fields of life, minority involvement in Pakistan is significant, but appears less prominent.



There is less outward bias against minorities from the regular Pakistani society, especially when many minorities kind of keep themselves separated from the majority. Minorities in Pakistan do not have problems in finding housing on the basis of religion like there is in India. There is a lot more communalism in India than there is in Pakistan.

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------



Working in the Ministry of Finance is outside of defense/politics/showbiz.

you're sneaky with respect to point 1, let us judge that statement based on your definition not mine. You did not set the parameter as excluding defense/politics/showbiz (I did). Therefore, your statement regarding equal opportunity to excel should logically be based on your own parameters - which by the looks of things include politics/showbiz/defense.

So you do sir, in essence, contradict yourself since you did not set a parameter that excluded showbiz/defense/politics.

Working in the ministry of Finance is outside of politics?

The Ministry of Finance, also known as Finance Ministry, is a Cabinet-level department of Government of Pakistan concerned with the promoting economic growth and economic activities within the country. The Ministry's executive and political figure head is known as Finance Minister of Pakistan, who must be an elected member of Parliament of Pakistan. The organizational structure of the Ministry is listed below.

above quoted from wikipedia.

and even if it werent, it is still public sector - and can be part of propaganda (which can be the case in india too)

so i reiterate - doctors, lawyers, private sector tycoons... anyone?

---------- Post added at 06:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:12 PM ----------

If you're really interested in knowing how minorities live, & are perceived in Pakistan (instead of your trolling), you can read it here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/144897-outside-hindu-temple-karachi.html

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------



No, that's not what the OP was looking for, this is not outside of defense/politics/showbiz. Whatever we provide for him, it won't stop him trolling.

actually it kind of is, it makes mention of one doctor and one professional. so it does make an effort towards answering my question a little

you really should take the time to read something before posting a reply calling people trolls

 

[Devil Soul]

who is sajjan kumar?

Sajjan Kumar (born 23 September 1945) is an Indian politician belonging to the ruling Indian National Congress party.[1] He was a member of 14th Lok Sabha representing Outer Delhi constituency.
In 1977, sworn as Delhi Councillor by prominent social activist Guru Radha Kishan, congressman Sajjan Kumar is a mass leader of high following in Delhi. He was first elected to the Municipal Corporation of Delhi in 1977 when only few congressman were able to manage a win in Delhi. Sajjan Kumar is one of the prime accused in the 1984 Anti-Sikh riots. Eye-witnesses have testified how Sajjan Kumar incited mobs to kill Sikhs in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi's assassination.
Sajjan Kumar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Doctor09]

If you're really interested in knowing how minorities live, & are perceived in Pakistan (instead of your trolling), you can read it here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/144897-outside-hindu-temple-karachi.html

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------



No, that's not what the OP was looking for, this is not outside of defense/politics/showbiz. Whatever we provide for him, it won't stop him trolling.

Bilal bahi ap bhains k agay been baja rahay hu ..... koi faida nai he is in denial mode

 

[53fd]

you're sneaky with respect to point 1, let us judge that statement based on your definition not mine. You did not set the parameter as excluding defense/politics/showbiz (I did). Therefore, your statement regarding equal opportunity to excel should logically be based on your own parameters - which by the looks of things include politics/showbiz/defense.

My post was not restricted to Sikhs either, it just talked about the minorities in Pakistan. I was talking generally about the minorities in Pakistan. So let us stick to your statement of excluding personalities related to politics/showbiz/defense.

Working in the ministry of Finance is outside of politics?

It is part of the public sector, it is a position earned on merit, it is not a political position (unless you're talking about the Minister of Finance himself, all other positions in the Ministry of Finance are apolitical). So you're wrong.

Read doctor09's post, it has plenty of people you are looking for.

You have made this thread a dick measuring competition, & are not sincere about knowing how minorities fare in Pakistan.

 

[Imran Khan]

jassi lailpuriya ka ye song hi kafi hai bachoon ke liye