Vehemently absolutely without a shadow of a doubt disagreed and to such an extent
@Joe Shearer that i had to post.
First of all this line of thinking is wrong and should not have a place in this moral code of conduct. Concepts like their and ours are exactly what is peddled by posters you disagree with then why do you agree on this point. Both Pakistani and Indian users use this 'our forum' excuse as a means to declare themselves first class citizens at their respective domains and curtail the voices and rights of those that are not in the group. We have a group of Pakistani posters here trying to justify extreme action against Indians by highlighting how this is their forum and they are temporary guests thus should be penalized severely or they should be careful. You agree with those of such thinking? you made this code of conduct exactly to stand different from those Indians and are echoing their thinking. No you people are not guests here but are equal members of this forum and as equal members you have the same rights as a Pakistani member whether those rights are implemented or not is another argument. In fact the thing about such rights is that even with consent, you cannot forgo them and this has been echoed by the jurists of both India and Pakistan. Sorry but i disagree with number 3. The commentary needs to be changed. Be hospitable and be friendly but not because you are guests or are in foreign territory but because such is the teaching and raising of you forefathers, of your mothers, of your elders and of your society in general. You need to word it like that and this is where the second problem comes.
You see the thing about moral code is that it draws its power and energy from 'the right thing or action'. That is the center of all morality. You cannot create a moral code based on immoral elements. You see you worded that
We are guests here. So don't insult their country, religion, Founder, and any national symbols/icons.
So does that mean that in your domain, you can commit these acts and that would justified. Doing that would mean that places like Bharat Rakshak, IDF, or strategic are justified since its their domain and they can say all the stuff they want and if you condemn them and they say that we stuck to point 3 on PDF but here we are not guests but in our home so we can abuse. You see through this reasoning point 3 just lost all relevance and the code of conduct that you wish to create an impact with immediately took a major hit.
Its the same concept as would a person be considered foul mouth if he acts like a gentleman in his neighbors home but at his place he abuses like there is no tomorrow. I would not call that man a gentleman and would call him foul mouth. He is completely in his right to do that but remember you guys arent making laws but a code of moral conduct. In that such an action is not justified and if it is not justified then it cannot find place in your moral code of conduct.
I know i dont have a standing in this discussion but i appreciate the effort and take it as my view point. It would decrease the impact. Dont treat this place as foreign nor belittle yourself as guests if you wish to stay here. Stand tall and proud and if you are going the whole extra mile to make this code then clearly you are not some temporary guest since it would have been much easier to fill the ignore button or simply leave.
This is what i believe. In the end its you guys who are making the code and its your call
I don’t know who you are, nor have I interacted with you in the past, but you Sir have just gained my utmost respect!
Literally verbalized my feelings.
codes and conducts should not be imposed, nor can they be.
1. it is impractical because there is no orientation that happens to familiarize members about this said “code”. So how do you go about funneling this code to each and every Indian poster (assuming that’s the end goal)
2. This is the online world where identities are anonymous, flags are arbitrary and motives of posters unknown. It is next to impossible to actually expect conformity from posters based on rules that have been created by a small group. This group and I speak mainly for
@Joe Shearer has my respect because he has been around for years and it took years of reading and understanding his thoughts and excellent posts that cultivated this respect. This is an individual thing and has to be achieved at its own pace. Not every member of this group has the same standing as Joe for me.
A new member is not and will not just “respect” you and your codes just because you say so.
It’s the same thing with mods here.
@waz has my respect because he has earned it through his actions and thoughts. The newer mods, not so much.
3. who is enforcing these codes? What is the penalty for non compliance?
lastly and most importantly....
4. what is the end goal here? To make this forum better?
If that is the case, then the onus is on ALL members to adhere to this or such codes, NOT just Indian members.
If the goal is to appease PDF Pakistanis, then the code itself is flawed because it is no different that what is happening to the Muslims in India where the majority (PDF Paks) needs to be appeased and the minority (PDF Indians) need to compromise to be able to coexist, lest they be booted, banned, trolled or worst just shut out.
And this group and code then becomes a tool to assist the majority impose their will.
I don’t agree or accept what’s happening in India and I will not allow myself to be part of something that I don’t accept/allow in my real life.
I completely agree with this poster quoted here:
1.the code has to be individual
2. It has to reflect your upbringing.
3. If you wouldn’t say something to someone’s face in real life, don’t say it anonymously on the internet either
3. Treat others, how you would like to be treated. If you wouldn’t like your nation, mother, founding fathers, history, armed forces, religion to be disrespected, don’t disrespect another members either.
4. (Ideally) Treat this like forum like a joint family home. Disagreements happen, but should not cross limits to the point that the house and family is broken.
But...and I say this from a personal standpoint that it is extremely hard to feel like this forum is “ours” because it becomes blatantly obvious to point that it’s said through actions and words that this is a Pakistani forum only.
You only try to improve your “own” house.
This isn’t my house as I see intolerance and unfairness at every nook and cranny here.
So I don’t have any vested interest in trying to improve this place. But that’s just me.
@Joe Shearer you’re a good human being and I understand your urge to create this code to sow seeds of harmony. But I think this is a lost endeavor.
PDF is simply a channel for many posters to vent their frustration.
When I first joined, I was hoping this would be a way for Indians and Pakistanis to come together and understand each other, listen and perhaps find a way to harness our joint history to find commonalities that could bring us closer. Perhaps what can’t be done by our politicians, can be done by the common man. I was wrong (at least about PDF)
Over the years (on this forum only not in real life), I have found that we are different in every regard. There is no common ground and if based on what goes on at PDF is the posters speaking the truth behind anonymity, then there is no hope for peace between our people. We simply hate each other and have no way to understand each other’s perspectives nor be able to understand an issue by putting ourselves in “their” shoes.
Unfortunately, as much as I think this is a good gesture, I’ll follow my own code, one that takes the reality of this place into account, but making sure that I represent my uprbringing, my family and nation in the best way possible. Other than that, appeasement is not my cup of tea.
PS: we need the attitude of both indian and Pak posters to be like
@saiyan0321
That is the kind of engagement/attitude that makes me drop my guard, makes me want to listen, understand and resolve.
Just my 2 pennies.
