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With pure ballistic missiles, range determines the speed. The characteristics of the missile are negligible, if it has 2000km it's speed needs to be around mach 13 (see uploaded chart). A much easier situation than one would think.

Regarding the PAC-3: I like the design and its quite effective. You can't design a much more effective missile for that role and Chinese are said to have copied the concept. However at 2mil $ a shot it is very expensive...

The Zolfaghar missile is just not what the PAC-3 was designed to defeat. It's a faster gliding MARV with a G maneuvering capability of 20G when it encounters the PAC-3. I don't say it has a proximity sensor that let it pull 20G when PAC-3 closes, its foremost the high speed and course changing that makes it very hard to intercept by the slower PAC-3.
So its not a saturation scenario with the Zolfaghar but one in which the PK against the Zolfaghar would be so low that it could not be effectively intercepted.
 

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Peed,

That does make some sense. To increase the range of a missile, you generally have to either increase the burn time of the motor or use more energetic fuel combination, both of which should increase your velocity at a burnout.

For example, the infamous R-12 MRBM (known for its role in the Cuban Missile Crisis), is variously reported to have had a ~3.5km/sec velocity (at engine shutdown) and its range is compared to the Ghadrs and Sejil (though very different design of course).

AmirPatriot,

Well, I did find a better source that seems to confirm that each MPQ-53 can guide up to 9 interceptors at a time..

http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/06.missile/karte003.en.html

It's interesting to note that the -53 is reportedly capable of detecting and tracking up to 100 targets but only focus on 9 to vector interceptors to.

I can't however find much info on the improvements with the -65 in terms of targeting ability. It would seem odd to NOT increase its ability to engage targets but to quadruple the number of interceptors per launcher.
 
سومین کارخانه زیرزمینی تولید موشک در سپاه تاسیس شد/ موشک بالستیک بعدی سپاه با نام «دزفول» تولید می‌شود


This is a quote from the article:
"سردار حاجی‌زاده همچنین با اشاره به موضوع خرید تجهیزات نظامی اخیر توسط عربستان از آمریکا خاطرنشان کرد: این موضوع به هیچ عنوان ما را ناراحت نمی‌‌کند و مطمئنیم در آینده همین تجهیزات علیه رژیم صهیونیستی به کار گرفته خواهد شد."

How? Do they wanna takeover KSA and use those weapons against Israel? Or do they wanna make peace with KSA and bring them to their own side?
 
https://www.rt.com/news/389689-iran-ballistic-missiles-trump/

Iran says it built 3rd underground ballistic missile factory, vows to increase capabilities

Iran has built its third underground ballistic missile production factory, the head of the elite Revolutionary Guards airspace division said, adding that the Islamic Republic will continue to “forcefully” develop its missile capabilities.

“Iran’s third underground factory has been built by the Guards in recent years… We will continue to further develop our missile capabilities forcefully,” Amirali Hajizadeh said, as quoted by Fars News Agency.


He went on to state that "the next missile to be produced is a surface-to-surface missile."

Hajizadeh also said that “it is natural that our enemies America and the Zionist regime (Israel) are angry with our missile program because they want Iran to be in a weak position."

US President Donald Trump has taken a hardline stance against Iran since taking office in January. During a trip to the Middle East earlier this week, he blamed it for being the main source of instability in the region.

In response, Tehran accused Trump of “repetitive and baseless claims,” saying he was trying to spread “Iranophobia.”

Trump put Iran “on notice” in February, stating on Twitter that he wouldn't be as “kind” to the Islamic Republic as his predecessor Barack Obama was.


______________________________________________________________

-> they are talking about a missile called „Dezful“, which is "under development"
curious about it...design, range, fuel, CEP....
 
@AmirPatriot any info about new BM called "Dezfol" ?
موشک بالستیک بعدی سپاه با نام «دزفول» تولید می‌شود
they are talking about a missile called „Dezful“,
Dezful
which 3 hour drive next to city of
Khorramshahr

the second name of city of Dezful is touted as city of missiles. and it is Twin Sister cities Tyre, in south Lebanon ,



No information, I presume that will be given in the unveiling, which is to happen "soon".

Gen Hajizadeh is BSing . they just waiting for congress Treasury to put new missile sanctions on then
US Senate committee passes bill to impose new sanctions on Iran
US Senate committee approves new Iran sanctions bill
US Announces New Iran Sanctions, But Keeps Waiving Sanctions


then maybe if Ruhani approve it they come and show missile or missile underground factory that all it is .
THERE IS NO new underhand missile factory and and it all depend on Rouhani administration i mean Rouhani which missile to show if any or what old factroy .
Trust me have much much much more the 3 missile factory underground .
From what we Know about Rohani nothing will happen and nothing will be shown .
Gen HajiZadeh try to send signal and message outside of government TO U.S and Trump that the sanction will not stop nothing
 
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@PeeD @eagle2007 would it be feasible for a re-entry vehicle to also have a small thruster firing while it is in re-entry, to increase its speed and better evade missile defences?
 
@PeeD @eagle2007 would it be feasible for a re-entry vehicle to also have a small thruster firing while it is in re-entry, to increase its speed and better evade missile defences?
Thrusters tend to be fairly low powered and used mainly for attitude/maneuvering control they wont add much speed to a reentry and running them continuously like that would exhaust them very quickly,not to mention that the warhead during and after reentry will still be well in the hypersonic range.Maneuverability is likely to be of more value when it comes to defeating abm systems,another option to get higher reentry speeds would be using a lofted flight profile like the dprk does for its missile tests tho by doing this you will sacrifice range.
 
@AmirPatriot

Fafnir is right that s small propulsion system in the RV won't add enough speed to compensate drag losses due to maneuvering.

Thrusters would be good for exo-atmospheric maneuvering and high altitude endo-atmospheric maneuvering.

A Ghadr or Sejil with mach 13 will impact on earth with around mach 3, not more. It will loose 10 mach numbers due to friction, which can also be "invested" in gliding and maneuvering with the right flight management.

So additional speed is not really worth it but exo-atmospheric thrusters are always useful against exo-atmospheric ABM systems.
 
Said that, there is one design solution that combines both a smaller sustainer engine in the RV and thrusters (lateral): A low thrust "sustainer" engine with TVC, an easy and cost effective solution.

This is whats possible in the Zolfaghar and Emad RV. But adding speed is a secondary very insignificant purpose with such a system.
 
IRGC aerospace commander Gen Hajizadeh third underground ballistic missile production factory, Dezful ground-to-ground ballistic missile
سومین کارخانه زیرزمینی تولید موشک در سپاه تاسیس شد/ موشک بالستیک بعدی سپاه با نام «دزفول» تولید می‌شود
http://www.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=13960304000523

IRGC aerospace commander Gen Hajizadeh third underground ballistic missile production factory, Dezful ballistic missile
TEHRAN (FNA)- Commander of Iran's Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) Aerospace Force Brigadier General Amir Ali Hajizadeh announced on Thursday that the country has built a third underground missile production factory recently.
"We will increase our missile power. Our enemies, the United States and the Zionist regime (Israel) are naturally upset and get angry at our missile production, tests and underground missile facilities because they want Iran to be in a weak position," Hajizadeh said at a public meeting with people in the Southwestern city of Dezfoul on Thursday.
"Iran's third underground factory has been built by the IRGC in recent years," he added.
The General further pointed out that the IRGC plans to build its first ground-to-ground ballistic missile that will be named 'Dezfoul' in the near future.
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13960304001036
 
in celebrations day of resistance on 25 May Iranian Minister of Defense Brigadier General Hossein Dehghan said : today the range of our cruise surface missile is in range 300-KM which has The ability of hitting targets deep into the Indian Ocean,
he add: today we have very looming arm & is capable of targeting in horizon too far targets
سردار حسین دهقان وزیر دفاع و پشتیبانی نیروهای مسلح: ما امروز دست خیلی بلندی داریم که میتوانیم اهداف مورد نظرمان را در افق ها یا گسترهای مکانی بسیار دوری مورد هدف قرار بدیم

تمام نیازهای موشکی را خودمان تولید می‌کنیم/ حکام عربستان سرنوشت صدام را به یاد آورند
وزیر دفاع درباره توانمندی موشکی کشور اظهار داشت: امروز به نقطه‌ای رسیدیم که تمام نیازهای موشکی خود در بعد بالستیک و کروز را خودمان طراحی و تولید می‌کنیم و موشکهای کروز با برد 300 کیلومتر در اختیار داریم.
سردار دهقان ادامه داد: امروز تمام تلاش‌ها در منطقه برای تضعیف ایران و حفظ امنیت اسرائیل و بازار تسلیحات آمریکا است. اما ایران استوار ایستاده است و اینکه عربستان تبدیل به انبارهای سلاح‌های آمریکایی شود افتخاری برای آنها نیست.
http://tn.ai/1419674
 
The discussion about MARV maneuverability for anti-ABM purposes might create a wrong impression:

Irans (conventional) missile force has such a high access denial potential, that this has been the reason why neither Americans, Israelis, Saudis or any other neighbor has attacked Iran yet.

Basically the Shahab-3 was enough to create such a access denial scenario. It is cheap and its CEP might be up to a kilometer.
But if it is equipped with a submunition warhead, it not only increases its destructive power, it also becomes immune against almost all ABM systems. The scenario is a 1998 vintage Shahab-3 upgraded with a warhead section that contains 10 sub munitions with cost effective ablative thermal shielding and release just after mid-point apogee reached.
Neither THAAD nor Arrow-2/3 nor PAC-2/3 could effectively intercept that payload.

Such a submuntion Shahab-3 is very cost effective and it's useful against large targets like airbases, even if they are hardened.
Another scenario: each of the 20 major enemy airbases around Iran in a belt between 1000km to 1500km need to be shut down to deny effective employment of airpower by the enemy. For 24 hours a day randomly at about 1 missile every 30 minutes each of the bases are attacked. So every day of such a intense scenario 1000 Shahab-3 are spent on access denial purposes of enemy airpower. If this is done for one week, 7000 Shahab-3 are spent and each of the 20 bases and 3500 100kg submuntions have impacted the 3x3km target, every square kilometer of this hardened target has been attacked by around 350, 100kg high velocity warheads.

The airbases will receive early warning about incoming missiles if the radar systems are still working and otherwise satellite sensors can provide coarse data on what might be the target. But operating aircraft in such a continuous attack condition that will involve operation limiting damage and necessary repair work, will have very bad impact on morale. The whole idea of airpower is at risk and this also means that the engaging ground based missile force can't be engaged in return effectively. Bases beyond the 1500km belt become much less relevant for the enemy airpower, because the ranges are outside what tactical aircraft are capable to operate from. This means special assets like F-22 or land based F-35 can't be effectively used.

The number to get that job done, the 7000 basic Shahab-3 might sound too high but how much would one cost and how much budget is needed over lets say 15 years for that? Is this capability worth such a investment?

The situation gets better as the airbases come closer. At Qiam and Shahab-2/1 range the engagement of airbases which project enemy airpower will become cheaper or much more intense. At twice the intensity --> 4 missiles every hour operation might become completely impossible and all short-legged aircraft thus fall out of the war equation.

This is real situation beyond MARV equipped missiles and this is why I disagree with baradar Yavar: IRGC-ASF conventional missile force, is very well useful in a non-nuclear conflict.
It can also be confidently said that Israel was never in a position to attack Iran. Israeli bases, around 10, are very well hardened but after the initial attack the IRGC missile force could badly maul their airpower within a few day long operation --> Israelis would need to use nuclear warheads and this was no option for such a limited operation.
Now Israelis have the nuclear card beside airpower but Saudis with their 10 super bases and 110mrd $ more F-15 would still face the same fate of the described scenario. Iranian missile bases are too well hardened to destroy their fighting capability with a preemptive strike by 1000 Saudi F-15 (plus the still fresh airdefences which will let the missile force start the access denial chain).

However once Iran would become an official nuclear power, this concept of conventional anti-access ballistic missile would become obsolete: A single Shahab-3 launch would trigger a nuclear response by Israelis and Americans.

PS: After reading this you might realize why it was the best idea in modern Iranian military history to dismiss airpower and renovation of the IRIAF and invest everything on the ballistic missile force.
 
The discussion about MARV maneuverability for anti-ABM purposes might create a wrong impression:

Irans (conventional) missile force has such a high access denial potential, that this has been the reason why neither Americans, Israelis, Saudis or any other neighbor has attacked Iran yet.

Basically the Shahab-3 was enough to create such a access denial scenario. It is cheap and its CEP might be up to a kilometer.
But if it is equipped with a submunition warhead, it not only increases its destructive power, it also becomes immune against almost all ABM systems. The scenario is a 1998 vintage Shahab-3 upgraded with a warhead section that contains 10 sub munitions with cost effective ablative thermal shielding and release just after mid-point apogee reached.
Neither THAAD nor Arrow-2/3 nor PAC-2/3 could effectively intercept that payload.

Such a submuntion Shahab-3 is very cost effective and it's useful against large targets like airbases, even if they are hardened.
Another scenario: each of the 20 major enemy airbases around Iran in a belt between 1000km to 1500km need to be shut down to deny effective employment of airpower by the enemy. For 24 hours a day randomly at about 1 missile every 30 minutes each of the bases are attacked. So every day of such a intense scenario 1000 Shahab-3 are spent on access denial purposes of enemy airpower. If this is done for one week, 7000 Shahab-3 are spent and each of the 20 bases and 3500 100kg submuntions have impacted the 3x3km target, every square kilometer of this hardened target has been attacked by around 350, 100kg high velocity warheads.

The airbases will receive early warning about incoming missiles if the radar systems are still working and otherwise satellite sensors can provide coarse data on what might be the target. But operating aircraft in such a continuous attack condition that will involve operation limiting damage and necessary repair work, will have very bad impact on morale. The whole idea of airpower is at risk and this also means that the engaging ground based missile force can't be engaged in return effectively. Bases beyond the 1500km belt become much less relevant for the enemy airpower, because the ranges are outside what tactical aircraft are capable to operate from. This means special assets like F-22 or land based F-35 can't be effectively used.

The number to get that job done, the 7000 basic Shahab-3 might sound too high but how much would one cost and how much budget is needed over lets say 15 years for that? Is this capability worth such a investment?

The situation gets better as the airbases come closer. At Qiam and Shahab-2/1 range the engagement of airbases which project enemy airpower will become cheaper or much more intense. At twice the intensity --> 4 missiles every hour operation might become completely impossible and all short-legged aircraft thus fall out of the war equation.

This is real situation beyond MARV equipped missiles and this is why I disagree with baradar Yavar: IRGC-ASF conventional missile force, is very well useful in a non-nuclear conflict.
It can also be confidently said that Israel was never in a position to attack Iran. Israeli bases, around 10, are very well hardened but after the initial attack the IRGC missile force could badly maul their airpower within a few day long operation --> Israelis would need to use nuclear warheads and this was no option for such a limited operation.
Now Israelis have the nuclear card beside airpower but Saudis with their 10 super bases and 110mrd $ more F-15 would still face the same fate of the described scenario. Iranian missile bases are too well hardened to destroy their fighting capability with a preemptive strike by 1000 Saudi F-15 (plus the still fresh airdefences which will let the missile force start the access denial chain).

However once Iran would become an official nuclear power, this concept of conventional anti-access ballistic missile would become obsolete: A single Shahab-3 launch would trigger a nuclear response by Israelis and Americans.

PS: After reading this you might realize why it was the best idea in modern Iranian military history to dismiss airpower and renovation of the IRIAF and invest everything on the ballistic missile force.

Agreed, this was my overall thinking when it came to why Iran's ballistic missiles are such an impressive/important piece in Iran's defense architecture (I bet one can argue that ballistic missiles are arguendtrikergue means to an end in themselves).

Missiles I guess are a better bet when you have a lot of them.

But the real question is does Iran have thousands of ballistic missiles indeed on standby. I don't doubt Iran has maybe around 2 thousand but 7000 is a stretch (and that's of one variety the Shahanb3). Where would you even put that many missiles to begin with?

But if what Yavar said was true about iran having many ballistic missiles production factories, then one should assume that the yearly production especially with the recent 100+ billion arms deal with Saudi Arabia, is kicking out a lot of missiles.

The Houthis/Yemenis have used their more primitive ballistic missiles to very good use against the Saudis, I can't even imagine the level of pure destruction advanced iranian missiles would bring upon the enemy.

And yes, those mountain bases Iran has carved out is the real trump card in my honest opinion. No regular munitions can destroy solid rock like a mountain (nearly perfect defense). I guess one could argue of long range strike air craft hitting the vents and entrances but that's if they get through Iran's thick air defenses and they would have to choose to hit one of the possible hundreds of missile bases. But then there's long range cruise missile attack and other x,y and z factors.

Overall Iran has the right idea when it comes to detterent through missiles, it obviously works.
 
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