Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Basel]

In War anything that can drop a BOMB on the enemy is very useful
Provided it comes back safely

PAF is ready for one way missions if things get that bad, only thing matters is completing the assigned mission.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

PAF a ready for one way missions if things get that bad, only thing matters is completing the assigned mission.

OK ; your wish would be fulfilled

But still Mirage 3 / 5 cannot get past our air defences and CAP fighters

 

[Basel]

OK ; your wish would be fulfilled

But still Mirage 3 / 5 cannot get past our air defences and CAP fighters

They will after your AD is dented where needed and to do that there are plenty standoff options.

 

[denel]

OK ; your wish would be fulfilled

But still Mirage 3 / 5 cannot get past our air defences and CAP fighters

That is very short sighted assumption, that is what standoff capabilities are there for.

 

[Cookie Monster]

OK ; your wish would be fulfilled

But still Mirage 3 / 5 cannot get past our air defences and CAP fighters

No weapon is absolute...weaknesses exist in all. If air defense systems were so perfect then nations wouldn't need to invest so heavily in building up their air forces.

There are many counters to air defense systems.
1) Destroy the air defense system before it detects u(stand off weapons/or depending on terrain could be accomplished by flying low to evade detection/stealth fighters)
2) Jamming the radar of the air defense system to get close enough to destroy it(Wild Weasel types of jets)
3) This last option isn't widely adopted/deployed and is rather a new approach. I forget the name but essentially it is a small UAV like system that gives the radar signature of an actual jet to the enemy radar and can be used in a number of ways(decoy/oversaturation/cost prohibitive).

U should know that a jet doesn't go alone on a mission. If Mirages were to be used for a strike role in an area with air defense systems they will be escorted by the likes of F16 and JF17 to engage IAF interceptors.

In any case...if the situation ever comes up where the Mirages, relying solely on their own capability, have to strike in an area well defended by air defense systems they would be limited to mostly option 1(some combination of stand off weapons and radar evasion) and maybe option 2 depending on the EW capability of Mirages and the jamming resistance of the air defense system it is facing. This is however very unlikely...and mostly just wishful thinking that mirages will operate alone.

 

[khanasifm]

See the difference in take off time.

Jas39 was designed to take off and land from app 800 meters runway most Modern Ac with thrust to weight ratio of app 1 are, mirage in clean configuration its ttw ratio is .68 and if you add load then it goes down plus comparing 50 design with 90s almost 40 years , there is no comparison even f7s has better ratio and take off specs not sure what so special here

As for as your defenses I do not know what are ur defenses yes everyone and the world knows iaf defenses
Especially those who work in the industry and serve various customers and deal with them frequently

 

[denel]

Jas39 was designed to take off and land from app 800 meters runway most Modern Ac with thrust to weight ratio of app 1 are, mirage in clean configuration its ttw ratio is .68 and if you add load then it goes down plus comparing 50 design with 90s almost 40 years , there is no comparison even f7s has better ratio and take off specs not sure what so special here

As for as your defenses I do not know what are ur defenses yes everyone and the world knows iaf defenses
Especially those who work in the industry and serve various customers and deal with them frequently

Absolutely for the first part; just out of interest comparison.

 

[araz]

OK ; your wish would be fulfilled

But still Mirage 3 / 5 cannot get past our air defences and CAP fighters

Sir,
I kow tow to your superior national intellect and prowess.Pakistan will indeed crumble at the feet of Indian might. However please consider you will have a lot more Bhookas and nangas to feed and clothe and at the moment you cant seem to be able to do that to your owqn.Do you really want to add more work for your struggling Janta of do gooders.
Regards
The thread is about m3/M5s please keep to topic.
A

 

[Windjammer]

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

No weapon is absolute...weaknesses exist in all. If air defense systems were so perfect then nations wouldn't need to invest so heavily in building up their air forces.

There are many counters to air defense systems.
1) Destroy the air defense system before it detects u(stand off weapons/or depending on terrain could be accomplished by flying low to evade detection/stealth fighters)
2) Jamming the radar of the air defense system to get close enough to destroy it(Wild Weasel types of jets)
3) This last option isn't widely adopted/deployed and is rather a new approach. I forget the name but essentially it is a small UAV like system that gives the radar signature of an actual jet to the enemy radar and can be used in a number of ways(decoy/oversaturation/cost prohibitive).

U should know that a jet doesn't go alone on a mission. If Mirages were to be used for a strike role in an area with air defense systems they will be escorted by the likes of F16 and JF17 to engage IAF interceptors.

In any case...if the situation ever comes up where the Mirages, relying solely on their own capability, have to strike in an area well defended by air defense systems they would be limited to mostly option 1(some combination of stand off weapons and radar evasion) and maybe option 2 depending on the EW capability of Mirages and the jamming resistance of the air defense system it is facing. This is however very unlikely...and mostly just wishful thinking that mirages will operate alone.

Re: decoy UAVs you're referring to the MALD. It's like taking an ALCM, but programming it to loiter and emit either radar transmissions (to alert passive sensors) or conduct it's own DRFM-jamming. But the long-term key to those is autonomous operation, which delves into attritable UAVs and UCAVs.

 

[JamD]

View attachment 423709

Just edited your picture to fix the perspective best I could.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

PAF is ready for one way missions if things get that bad, only thing matters is completing the assigned mission.

And, they have proved it already time and again...

Re: decoy UAVs you're referring to the MALD. It's like taking an ALCM, but programming it to loiter and emit either radar transmissions (to alert passive sensors) or conduct it's own DRFM-jamming. But the long-term key to those is autonomous operation, which delves into attritable UAVs and UCAVs.

In my very limited understanding, such "excursions" and "gymnastics" are possible only if full access and ability to smartly and intelligently play with the both hardware and software of such sophisticated systems exist!!! And, the folks have that dare devil "out of the box" mindset with the ability to work dead hard with Iman and Ihlas!!!! It's like challenging the Eagle while others perceive you to be a sparrow!! Pak is damn lucky to have that rare combination and opportunity....

No weapon is absolute...weaknesses exist in all. If air defense systems were so perfect then nations wouldn't need to invest so heavily in building up their air forces.

There are many counters to air defense systems.
1) Destroy the air defense system before it detects u(stand off weapons/or depending on terrain could be accomplished by flying low to evade detection/stealth fighters)
2) Jamming the radar of the air defense system to get close enough to destroy it(Wild Weasel types of jets)
3) This last option isn't widely adopted/deployed and is rather a new approach. I forget the name but essentially it is a small UAV like system that gives the radar signature of an actual jet to the enemy radar and can be used in a number of ways(decoy/oversaturation/cost prohibitive).

U should know that a jet doesn't go alone on a mission. If Mirages were to be used for a strike role in an area with air defense systems they will be escorted by the likes of F16 and JF17 to engage IAF interceptors.

In any case...if the situation ever comes up where the Mirages, relying solely on their own capability, have to strike in an area well defended by air defense systems they would be limited to mostly option 1(some combination of stand off weapons and radar evasion) and maybe option 2 depending on the EW capability of Mirages and the jamming resistance of the air defense system it is facing. This is however very unlikely...and mostly just wishful thinking that mirages will operate alone.

Couldn't just stop interrupting. As for EW, the Turkish folks love it!!! In the very first class of sophomore-level electromagnetics, my Rahmetli Professor was talking about EW, and how one can earn a PhD by working on any aspect of it at my alma mater!!!!

 

[Cookie Monster]

Re: decoy UAVs you're referring to the MALD. It's like taking an ALCM, but programming it to loiter and emit either radar transmissions (to alert passive sensors) or conduct it's own DRFM-jamming. But the long-term key to those is autonomous operation, which delves into attritable UAVs and UCAVs.

Yes it is indeed MALD that I couldn't remember at the time. I had come across this a while back and I had the same thought about having MALD like UAVs being part of a bigger swarm which will also have "kamikaze" drones(with targeting systems like radar homing or IR seeker etc along with an explosive payload) and "brain" drones(for target acquisition, detecting the enemy radar through passive sensors, datalink capabilities, etc). This theoretical swarm would be able to effectively destroy even the most advanced(currently) air defense systems in the world. It would also make it cost prohibitive to rely on SAM systems for the enemy. I started a thread on this and tagged u for ur feedback. If u have time please dive in deeper into this topic on that thread(the link is below)

MALD

UAV swarm
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/china-launches-record-breaking-uav-swarm.503463/#post-9603953

 

[khanasifm]

Neo news full program on mirages ?? Not sure if it's available online

 

[Signalian]

In any case...if the situation ever comes up where the Mirages, relying solely on their own capability, have to strike in an area well defended by air defense systems they would be limited to mostly option 1(some combination of stand off weapons and radar evasion) and maybe option 2 depending on the EW capability of Mirages and the jamming resistance of the air defense system it is facing. This is however very unlikely...and mostly just wishful thinking that mirages will operate alone.

The ROSE upgraded should be capable of operating alone if need arises.