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UAE Mirage to PAF and SH to IAF Extract

Buddy, PAF is not able to buy UAE M-2000 fighter with any reason but how can you compare those reliable and proven jets with something which is still not produced and how are its capabilities , it will be known when PAF will be using it for few yrs.
If you still want to beat old drumps like other fan boys on this thread also, your wish..

im not beating old drums J 10 have been in service with Chinese airforce for 3 years now J 10A it is and newer version J 10B has arrived too yes but it needs time but sir it is more Agile than your old mirages it has greater turn rate have 11 hardpoints state of the art cockpit etc and uses engine similare SU 30 uses AL 21 might be
 
The J-10 (Jian 10 or Fighter 10) is China's indigenously built multirole fighter aircraft developed by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry. Chengdu Aircraft Industry is part of the China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I). In the west the J-10 aircraft is known as the Vigorous Dragon.

It is estimated that up to 300 J-10 fighter aircraft will be manufactured. China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) includes the army, navy, air force and strategic rocket force. The air force (AFPLA) has 200 fighter and fighter ground attack squadrons and 120 strike fighter squadrons.

The J-10 aircraft is considered as a replacement for the J-7 and Q-5. The air force currently operates about 250 J-7 (MiG-21) air defence and attack aircraft and about 500 Q-5 attack aircraft.

"The J-10 is China's indigenously built multi-role fighter aircraft."China formally announced the J-10 in February 2007. The existence of the J-10 was first reported in 1994, but the J-10 programme was started in 1988 and the first flight of the single seat aircraft took place in 1998. A two-seater variant made its first flight in 2003.

There are reports that the J-10 entered service in 2005 and is operational in single seater and two seater versions in at least two PLA air force squadrons.

It has also been reported that Pakistan will receive the first export versions of the J-10, up to 36 aircraft, by around 2010. China and Pakistan have worked closely on the development of another fighter aircraft, the JF-17 or FC-1 light fighter aircraft.

J-10 design
The structure of the aircraft is based on a tail-less delta (triangular planform) wing, foreplanes and a sweptback vertical tail. There are two, fixed, outwardly canted ventral (on the underside of the body) fins near the tail. The size and design of the J-10 are very similar to that of the Israeli Aircraft Industries Lavi fighter aircraft, which itself is similar to and derived technology from the USAF F-16 aircraft.

The horizontal close-coupled foreplanes (larger than those on the Lavi) on the forward fuselage improve the take-off and low speed handling characteristics.

Weapons
The J-10 has 11 external hardpoints: five hardpoints on the fuselage with one on the centreline and a pair of hardpoints on each side of the fuselage, and three hardpoints on each wing.

The outer wing stations carry air-to-air missiles such as the Chinese built Python 3 PL-8, P-11 or PL-12 or the Russian Vympel R-73 (AA-11 'Archer') or R-77 (AA-12 'Adder').

The PL-8 infrared homing short-range air-to-air missile is manufactured in China under a licensed production agreement by the China Academy (formerly the Luoyang Electro-optics Technology Development Centre) and is a variant of the Israeli Python 3 missile. The PL-11 is a licensed-manufactured variant of the MBDA Italy Aspide medium-range air-to-air missile.

The PL-12 missile is manufactured in China under a collaborative agreement with Russia. It uses the Russian AA-12 Adder missile technology configured with a Chinese-developed rocket motor to give a range of 50 miles and speed of Mach 4.

"In the west the J-10 aircraft is known as the Vigorous Dragon."The aircraft can be armed with laser-guided bombs, the anti-ship YJ-8K or C-801K solid rocket powered missiles, the C-802 land attack and anti-ship turbojet-powered missiles manufactured by CHETA, and the YJ-9 anti-radiation missile.

A 23mm cannon is installed internally on the port side of the forward section of the fuselage above the nosewheel.

Sensors
The aircraft could be fitted with a forward looking infrared and laser target designator pod. The China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I ) has displayed an exhibition model of the J-10 fitted with targeting pods, which would provide the capability of the J-10 to deploy laser and satellite navigation guided weapons.

Possible pulse Doppler radar fits include the Chinese Type 1473 radar, Russian Phazotron Zhuk-10PD or Zhemchug, the Chinese JL-10A, the Israeli IAI Elta EL/M-2023 or the Italian Galileo Avionica Grifo 2000.

Cockpit
The single seat fighter aircraft is also being developed in a two-seat variant as a trainer aircraft and as an electronic warfare aircraft. The first flight of the two-seat variant was completed in 2003. The cockpit is fitted with a zero-zero ejection seat.

The aircraft has a digital fly-by-wire flight control system and HOTAS (hands-on throttle and stick) control on which the pilot has every control for combat incorporated into the two handholds.

Cockpit displays include a helmet-mounted weapon sight, a wide field of view head-up display and one full-colour and two monochrome liquid crystal multi-function displays. The avionics is served by a 1553B databus.

Engine
The aircraft is powered by the AL-31 turbojet engine supplied by Saturn Lyulka. The prototype aircraft and the first series of production aircraft are fitted with the AL-31FN developing 79kN and 123kN with afterburn, and which is the currently used in the Chinese Air Force Su-27 and Su-30 aircraft.

The more highly powered and advanced variant of the J-10, the Super-10, first reported in 2006, is fitted with the AL-31FN M1 supplied by Salyut. The AL-31FN M1 provides 132.5kN and is equipped with full authority digital engine control and a four-way swivelling exhaust nozzle for vectored thrust.

"It is estimated that up to 300
J-10 fighter aircraft will be manufactured."The aircraft carries a maximum of 4,950l of fuel internally, comprising 3,180l in the wing tanks and 1,770l in the fuselage tanks. A fixed refuelling probe for in-flight refuelling is installed halfway up the forward port side of the fuselage and just forward of the pilot.

Aerial refuelling of the J-10 is from a Xian H-6U tanker aircraft.

Additional fuel can be carried in auxiliary tanks on the centreline under the fuselage and on the innermost pair of the three sets of wing hardpoints.

Landing gear
The aircraft is equipped with tricycle-type landing gear. The nose unit has twin heels and retracts rearwards and the main units retract forward. The aircraft has a drogue parachute for landing.








Mirage 2000 is a multirole combat fighter from Dassault Aviation of France. It has been operational with the French Air Force since 1984, and has been selected by Abu Dhabi, Egypt, Greece, India, Peru, Qatar, Taiwan and the United Arab Emirates. By 2009, approximately 600 Mirage 2000 were in service worldwide.

Mirage 2000 fighters in operation with the French Air Force are: Mirage 2000C/B single seater and two seater for air defence; Mirage 2000N, two seater, designed for all weather nuclear penetration at low altitude and very high speed; Mirage 2000D, an upgraded version of the Mirage 2000N, for automated bombing using conventional and laser guided munitions; and Mirage 2000-5, incorporating advanced avionics, new multiple target air-to-ground and air-to-air firing procedures using the RDY radar and new sensor and control systems.

Orders for 110 Mirage 2000-5 have been placed by the air forces of France (37), Taiwan (60 aircraft), Qatar (12) and Greece.

Greece acquired 15 Mirage 2000-5 mk2 and upgraded ten of its Mirage 2000 to the same standard. The first entered service in September 2004 and deliveries concluded in November 2007. Mirage 2000 production line was shut down in 2007 after the last aircraft was delivered to Greece in November 2007.

The United Arab Emirates ordered 32 2000-9 aircraft, a customised version of the 2000-5, delivered between 2003 and 2007.

"Mirage 2000 is a multirole combat fighter from Dassault Aviation of France."In July 2005, the Government of Brazil agreed to purchase 12 ex-French Air Force Mirage 2000C aircraft. Deliveries began in September 2006 and concluded in June 2008.

Dassault has received a contract to upgrade the French Air Force's Mirage 2000N to K3 standard. The K3 upgrade includes the operation of the MBDA ASMPA nuclear stand-off missile and a new Thales Optronics Reco NG reconnaissance pod.

In October 2008, three French Air Force Mirage 2000D aircraft were deployed to Kandahar in Afghanistan in support of the Nato International Security Assistance Force (ISAF).

India is in discussions with French companies to upgrade a fleet of 51 Mirage 2000 aircraft operated by the Indian Air Force (IAF), at a cost of about $1.9bn.

Cockpit

Mirage 2000-5 is available as a single-seater or two-seater multi-role fighter. The aircraft has hands-on throttle and stick (HOTAS) control. Mirage 2000-5 incorporates the Thales VEH 3020 head-up display and five cathode ray tube multifunction advanced pilot systems interface (APSI) displays.

The combined head-up / head-level display is collimated at infinity, and presents data relating to flight control, navigation, target engagement and weapon firing. Sensor and system management data is presented on two coloured lateral displays.

Weapons

Mirage 2000 has nine hardpoints for carrying weapon system payloads: five on the fuselage and two on each wing. The single-seat version is also armed with two internally mounted, high-firing-rate 30mm guns.

Air-to-air weapons include the MICA multi-target air-to-air intercept and combat missiles, and the Magic 2 combat missiles, both from MBDA (formed out of a merger between Matra BAe Dynamics, EADS Aerospatiale and Alenia Marconi Systems). MICA supports a maximum operating range of 60km. The aircraft can carry four MICA missiles, two Magic missiles and three drop tanks simultaneously. The Mirage 2000-5 can fire the MBDA Super 530D missile or the MBDA Sky Flash air-to-air missile as an alternative to the MICA missile.

"Mirage 2000 is equipped to carry a range of air-to-surface missiles."Mirage 2000 is also equipped to carry a range of air-to-surface missiles and weapons including laser-guided bombs.

These include the MBDA BGL 1000 laser-guided bomb, MBDA AS30L, MBDA Armat anti-radar missile, MBDA AM39 Exocet anti-ship missile, MBDA rocket launchers, MBDA Apache stand-off weapon, and the stealthy cruise missile, SCALP.

The Mirage 2000-9 aircraft ordered by the United Arab Emirates carries the Black Shahine missile being developed by MBDA. The MBDA Storm Shadow / Scalp EG stand-off cruise missile will arm French AF Mirage 2000D, Greek Mirage 2000-5 and UAE Mirage 2000-9 aircraft. Storm Shadow was first deployed on UK RAF Tornado aircraft during Operation Iraqi Freedom in March 2003. Scalp EG entered service on French AF Mirage 2000D in December 2003.

MBDA has been awarded a contract in October 2003 to integrate the ASMPA medium-range air-to-ground missile on the French Air Force's new Mirage 2000NK3 aircraft. ASMPA has a tactical nuclear warhead and will replace the ASMP missile in service on the Mirage 2000N since 1988. The operational evaluation was completed in March 2009 and the new missile was scheduled to enter service on the Mirage 2000NK3 by end of 2009. The nuclear warhead is being provided by the French Atomic Energy Commission (Commissariat à l’Energie Atomique).

Targeting

Mirage 2000 has an upgraded digital weapon delivery and navigation system (WDNS). The aircraft can be fitted with a TV/CT CLDP laser designation pod from Thales Optronics, which provides the capability to fire laser-guided weapons by day and night. A number of French Air Force Mirage 2000D aircraft are being fitted with the Damocles laser designation pod with thermal imaging camera, also from Thales Optronics, under a contract awarded in July 2008.

Mirage 2000-5 is equipped with a multi-mode Thales RDY doppler radar which provides multi-targeting capability in the air defence role and the radar also has look down / shoot down mode of operation. The radar can simultaneously detect up to 24 targets and carry out track while scan on the eight highest priority threats.

Countermeasures

The aircraft is equipped with a self-protection suite installed internally. Mirage 2000-5 carries the ICMS mk2 automated integrated countermeasures system from Thales.

"The aircraft is equipped with a self-protection suite installed internally."ICMS mk2 incorporates a receiver and associated signal processing system in the nose section for the detection of missile command data links.

The system can be interfaced to a new programmable mission planning and a post-mission analysis ground system.

Engines

Mirage 2000 is equipped with an SNECMA M53-P2 turbofan engine, which provides 64kN thrust and 98kN with afterburn. The air intakes are fitted with an adjustable half-cone-shaped centre body, which provides an inclined shock of air pressure for highly efficient air input.


mirage has 9 hardpoints and J 10 11 hardpoints
 
J10 is a fantastic war plane.

IMO its equal to or close to both the best flankers and best F16s around.

INFACT IT CANT BE TO FAR OFF all the mmrca contenders. Just lacks the western radars avionics and engine reliability.

Has non PAF fan i am shocked that PAF is not inducting far more J10/FC20s

they are wasting valuable resources on a inferior thunder..
 
J10 is a fantastic war plane.

IMO its equal to or close to both the best flankers and best F16s around.

INFACT IT CANT BE TO FAR OFF all the mmrca contenders. Just lacks the western radars avionics and engine reliability.

Has non PAF fan i am shocked that PAF is not inducting far more J10/FC20s

they are wasting valuable resources on a inferior thunder
..


Dude we arent buying J-10 but J-10B which is under development:hitwall::hitwall:

And the current J-10 is compairable to F-16 Blk 52 and J-10B is a further development!!!

How can we buy a number of jets which is not even produced yet?

And yes according to internation defence sites the 2 sqadrons r just initial batch we will surely buy around 150 FC-20s.

And how is thunder inferior?its equal to F-16 blk 15-20 in performance,its a new fighter hell its second batch may even get AESA and WS-13
Both NRIET AESA is near development and WS-13 just got a successful testing run!!
 
J10 is a fantastic war plane.

IMO its equal to or close to both the best flankers and best F16s around.

INFACT IT CANT BE TO FAR OFF all the mmrca contenders. Just lacks the western radars avionics and engine reliability.

Has non PAF fan i am shocked that PAF is not inducting far more J10/FC20s

they are wasting valuable resources on a inferior thunder..

You are not the ACM of PAF nor you know about the thinking, strategies and doctrine of PAF.

So plzz quit your these kind of remarks which you post often.

It has been mentioned thousand times the purpose of the JF-17 Thunder and I am not gonna repeat it again to you especially, as it has been done already many times.

Pakistan is going for J-10s and it would be in numbers, but in future, it has been saved up for the future induction and in numbers also.


I don't know when you guys will understand few simple things.
 
@Storm Force

Hi,

How are you doing man? I was waiting for you to say something against JFT for many days :P

J10 is a fantastic war plane.

* It sure is !

IMO its equal to or close to both the best flankers and best F16s around.

*Even without your opinion, it will remain the same bro.


INFACT IT CANT BE TO FAR OFF all the mmrca contenders. Just lacks the western radars avionics and engine reliability.

* Again same issue, klj-7 in JFT proving to be the best radar in PAF and it defeated GRIFO-S in competition but you beat the same drum. So as per your logic, Indian Mig and SU fleet flying on unreliable engines ???

Has non PAF fan i am shocked that PAF is not inducting far more J10/FC20s they are wasting valuable resources on a inferior thunder..

* Last i heard they were going for more than a 100 planes (FC-20 version). Did they inform you of a change in plans? Inferior Thunder is able to take on most of IAF brother and that is just the Block 1 i am talking about ! Read its capabilities in various threads on this forum.
 
now please some one close this thread UAE mirages will go egypt not pakistan and nor we need them.deal is nearly done between egypt and uae.
 
now please some one close this thread UAE mirages will go egypt not pakistan and nor we need them.deal is nearly done between egypt and uae.

UAE's Mirage 2000s and Strategic Balance
Arabian Aerospace reports that, as a condition to purchase the Rafale fighter, UAE will require Dassault to buy back its 62 Mirage 2000-9s. The question then becomes, who will buy these 62 Mirages? These 62 Mirages may end up altering a strategic balance in the world.

This question is a tough one for Dassault because it no longer markets Mirage 2000s. It has staked its future on the Rafale, and its sales efforts focus on that. This batch of Mirages can interfere with Rafale prospects.

Wiki shows that the current operators of Mirage 2000s are: France, India, UAE, Taiwan, and Greece. Egypt, Qatar, Peru, and Brazil each operates less than a squadron of Mirage 2000s. We can knock off India and Brazil off the list right away, as they both have a current fighter competition in which Rafale is a contender. Greece is having economic difficulties and cannot spend its EU bailout on surplus aircrafts. We can probably say the same [economic difficulties] about potential new prospects such as Argentina, who currently operate older Mirages. Qatar Air Force and Peruvian Air Force are too small to absorb any significant quantities.

Egypt and Pakistan are good prospects. However, Egypt has been buying F-16s, and is talking with Pakistan to jointly manufacture the Sino-Pakistani JF-17. A Mirage sale to Pakistan may also upset India, whose Air Force got Rafale back into MRCA.

So the remaining customer, however improbable, is emerging as the most likely prospect: Taiwan. Taiwan already operates 60 2005s, and wants to retire the last 33 of its F-5s. Dassault is unlikely to sell Rafales to Taiwan anytime soon. Taiwan is shopping for more F-16s from Lockheed, but Obama has not been warm to a sale. The stars are lining up for Taiwan, so to speak. It has the money, the will, and the capacity to pick up as many 2000s as it can get. A direct sale from UAE to Taiwan is unlikely to draw major diplomatic heat from China, due to UAE's status as a petroleum exporter. Another 60 2000s would address the growing cross-strait military imbalance nicely.

If Obama continues to drag feet on F-16 sales, Taiwan may end up a Mirage 2000 country. France still has 300+ 2000s it would like to replace with Rafales at some point. India has 51 2000s that were supposed to be placeholders for the MRCA, and it could unload those to Taiwan to help balance against China. As the F-16 line closes down, these surplus 2000s will be Taiwan's only choice.
American Mohist: UAE's Mirage 2000s and Strategic Balance
 
I really wish we had some more $$$$.....

...Thanks to our leaders...especially Mr 10%..... we are having to sacrifice our dreams for the sake of such bastards :angry:

why dont we kill these bastards like mr 10%.im serious we give them
altimatum to make themselves ready to be a good one or get ready
to get a shot in the centre of his head:angry::sniper:
im serious .its time to take qismat in our own hands
whose ready for that change???????
 
why dont we kill these bastards like mr 10%.im serious we give them
altimatum to make themselves ready to be a good one or get ready
to get a shot in the centre of his head:angry::sniper:
im serious .its time to take qismat in our own hands
whose ready for that change???????
ummmmmmmmmm......lemme think:pop::pop:
 
I was a supporter of the Mirage 2000-5 from UAE, but what would we do about spare-parts in the long-run? I'd only buy them in place of the F-16s...
 
So the remaining customer, however improbable, is emerging as the most likely prospect: Taiwan. Taiwan already operates 60 2005s, and wants to retire the last 33 of its F-5s. Dassault is unlikely to sell Rafales to Taiwan anytime soon. Taiwan is shopping for more F-16s from Lockheed, but Obama has not been warm to a sale. The stars are lining up for Taiwan, so to speak. It has the money, the will, and the capacity to pick up as many 2000s as it can get. A direct sale from UAE to Taiwan is unlikely to draw major diplomatic heat from China, due to UAE's status as a petroleum exporter. Another 60 2000s would address the growing cross-strait military imbalance nicely.

the problem is that Taiwan is not-to-happy with its 60 mirages in its inventory due to high maintenance costs!!! - this issue has been discussed in detail already so no need to elaborate further!
 
I was a supporter of the Mirage 2000-5 from UAE, but what would we do about spare-parts in the long-run? I'd only buy them in place of the F-16s...


There is no point in buying old Mirage 2005, as good as they may seem, we are doing away with Mirages altogether. Why would we replace all Old ones and then keep some more old ones?


JF-17 and thats it.

Lets concentrate our resources on JF-17 and J-10 and their Chinese related weapons and infrastructure.
 
I was a supporter of the Mirage 2000-5 from UAE, but what would we do about spare-parts in the long-run? I'd only buy them in place of the F-16s...

Hi,

The first issue is parity with the iaf---you have to fill in the hole---the empty spot.

As far as taiwan is concerned---a lots of it is political---they want to find a way to get more american equipment---for that they have to please the americans---put the french equipment down.

The issue that pak has now is with its relationship with the french.
 
J10 is a fantastic war plane.

IMO its equal to or close to both the best flankers and best F16s around.

INFACT IT CANT BE TO FAR OFF all the mmrca contenders. Just lacks the western radars avionics and engine reliability.

Has non PAF fan i am shocked that PAF is not inducting far more J10/FC20s

they are wasting valuable resources on a inferior thunder..

No Paf will not waste funds on JF17 ...cuz it is utilizing instead to get technical know how in the aviation industry for future enhancements.:coffee:
 

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