PAF and its Pilots Persistent Demoralising Impact on IAF

[Side-Winder]

Yes, this is something that came in Indian media immediately after 27th Feb while Abhinanadon was still in Pakistani custody.

It may be before the aircraft got within the jamming range or the case of ground controller could hear him while he couldn't hear ground controllers voices as you know ground controller wasn't under the spell of Pakistan EW.

Also Abhi's wingman could hear the message from the ground control and return back to safety in time, That suggests effect of EW was most potent near the LoC and didn't extend beyond that deeper into India airspace.

It may be before the aircraft got within the jamming range

Nope, As per IAF, He had locked a WVR not BVR missile, would not be much time between locking and letting it go. Matter of couple of seconds, so the it does not have anything to do with being in jamming range.

the case of ground controller could hear him while he couldn't hear ground controllers voices as you know ground controller wasn't under the spell of Pakistan EW

Radio jamming means the RF signals are deteriorated to the point that their SNR drops beyond recoverable thresholds, no matter uplink or downlink. if Abhi's comms were jammed, the RF signals from his MIG-21 to Base were also jammed.

Also Abhi's wingman could hear the message from the ground control and return back to safety in time, That suggests effect of EW was most potent near the LoC and didn't extend beyond that deeper into India airspace

Depends on how close they were, but again this is just another piece from the indian stories without any evidence. He probably just had better natural situational awareness than Abhi.


I believe the F-16 waited long enough for abhi to cross into pakistani airspace to make sure the pilot as well as the aircraft is claimed after shootdown. and that is why Wg Cdr Noman was awarded a higher medal in comparison to Sqn Ldr Hassan, despite shooting an inferior aircraft.

 

[Balbir]

I believe the F-16 waited long enough for abhi to cross into pakistani airspace to make sure the pilot as well as the aircraft is claimed after shootdown. and that is why Wg Cdr Noman was awarded a higher medal in comparison to Sqn Ldr Hassan, despite shooting an inferior aircraft.

This is least of the probability given that those Pakistani pilots were well aware the fact that Mig 21 was armed this highly accurate BVR n WVR missiles and could pose a huge threat for them.

I'm certain they would not take the risk of ambushing him inside Pakistan territory for the sake of claiming the wreckage alone.

Btw interestingly, DGISPR said, Su30 also violated Pakistani airspace but the wreckage fell off on the Indian side. So had they wanted, PAF guys could've shot the mig21 down before it crossed LoC and gave the same alibi saying it's wreckage fell off on the Indian side after being show down for crossing into Pakistani airspace.

 

[Side-Winder]

This is least of the probability given that those Pakistani pilots were well aware the fact that Mig 21 was armed this highly accurate BVR n WVR missiles and could pose a huge threat for them.

I'm certain they would not take the risk of ambushing him inside Pakistan territory for the sake of claiming the wreckage alone.

Even a low flying Mig can not a escape the eyes of AWACS so the F-16 knew exactly where the MIG-21 was. Nevertheless, if Abhi was hit by an AMRAAM and not a sidewinder, the F-16 surely did have a reasonable distance and time, Wg Cdr Noman kept a good balance between letting it too close and letting it get inside pakistani airspace.

They say bigger the risk, bigger the reward. Noman took a bigger risk, brought down two objects that PAF could show to the world, and was ultimately awarded a higher medal.

Btw interestingly, DGISPR said, Su30 also violated Pakistani airspace but the wreckage fell off on the Indian side.

ISPR's tweet in general mentioned that IAF crossed the LoC. Does not necessarily mean, Su-30 also violated the airspace. Even if it did, PAF surely put bigger risk on MIG-21 than the MKI, letting it more closer to make sure of the trophy.

Nevetheless, the possibility of MIG-21 being detected too late was the reason, that it came so close to lock R-73 does not make sense, Nothing escapes the eyes of AWACS especially when you are dominating the whole EW environment.

PAF guys could've shot the mig21 down before it crossed LoC and gave the same alibi saying it's wreckage fell off on the Indian side after being show down for crossing into Pakistani airspace.

Exactly, it was done on purpose to claim both the trophies, just like the ISPR announced to the world a day before, 'We will be coming to get ya, See it for yourself, Our response will be different and something that the whole world will see'.

Su-30 was a bigger threat to our strike package than poor MIG-21, so why not prefer a MIG to get closer than an MKI

However, Yes, i believe the presser should have been assisted by a PAF official, First he confused the two reports from different units about capturing of same pilot, then the claim that F-16 did not participate in the operation (t was only part of sweep, not the strike package of H-4 and REK Bombs)

Someone like, AM Haseeb Paracha should have accompanied the DG, who explained things in much better way.

 

[Balbir]

Even a low flying Mig can not a escape the eyes of AWACS so the F-16 knew exactly where the MIG-21 was. Nevertheless, if Abhi was hit by an AMRAAM and not a sidewinder, the F-16 surely did have a reasonable distance and time, Wg Cdr Noman kept a good balance between letting it too close and letting it get inside pakistani airspace.

Abhinandon had relayed back to ground control that he had visual contact with PAF bogies. That means there were PAF jets flying close to LoC.

There were around 12 PAF jets in the area and it's logical to not think CAPs would be good distance away from LoC when some were launching cross border attacks.

It also raises question why he was shot down by AMRAAM BVRs and not side winders. Were those bogies not aware of his presence?

 

[Talon]

ACE is excellent and if I use the closest correct term "open-architecture". It is similar to how the US Navy and Marine Corps have subordinate units like TOP GUN around USA (and my gosh, I would kill to be flying out of places like NAS Key West !!!! )

Yes exactly.I always thought ACE was just the ***** (aircraft) then I saw its structure and I was like wait what...!!!

 

[Side-Winder]

Abhinandon had relayed back to ground control that he had visual contact with PAF bogies. That means there were PAF jets flying close to LoC.

Again, Sir, Firstly, If his comms were jammed, and if you truly understand the concept of jamming. You'd know that Abhinandhan was totally deaf and blind. any RF signal from his MIG to base and from base to MIG was being tempered/jammed by the PAF EW Network. When you jam a certain frequency, then it does not matter if base controller was out of EW range of PAF. The signal is tempered and can not be recovered in its original shape.

There were around 12 PAF jets in the area and it's logical to not think CAPs would be good distance away from LoC when some were launching cross border attacks.

Again, i'd say, wise and intentional move by the Falcon pilot to keep a good balance between letting it come too close and letting it get well inside pak airspace.

From the videos where the jet is coming down after shoot-out, show that he was at considerable altitude, not something like hugging the terrain. Do you really think that MIG-21 was also dodging the eyes of Saab-2000?

Wg Cdr Noman hit him at just the perfect time.

It also raises question why he was shot down by AMRAAM BVRs and not side winders. Were those bogies not aware of his presence?

Being shot by AMRAAM Proves only the point that, he was never too close for WVR missile lock, IAF claimed it to be an R-73 because one of the R-73s had burnt with the aircraft whose payload PAF could not show. That was the missile Indian media also claimed that it hit the F-16. Turns out its booster was found still fixed on pylon.

 

[ziaulislam]

His communications may be jammed, not his aircraft, or visibility.

HE was dangerously close to PAF jets and He could have very well fire R-73 WVR heat seeking missiles on PAF bogies nearby or he actually did fire and shot down a F-16 as India claims.

THis questions Pakistani assertion that they had missile locks on nine IAF jets flying well inside India while the one they shot down (Abhi's mig21) had come dangerously close before being shot down.

So hae had no inout from his controller walked into a trap while is controller was screaming but because IAF say so he also shot down an AIM120C equipped f16..same f16 which kept su 30 "dodging missles" from a distance.

What will be next ..did he came out of his cockpit in midair and use his trident to shot down the f16 which equipped with aim120c and full support of ground controller


Because that seems to be a more resonable explanation

F16 being shot down by abhi

Again, Sir, Firstly, If his comms were jammed, and if you truly understand the concept of jamming. You'd know that Abhinandhan was totally deaf and blind. any RF signal from his MIG to base and from base to MIG was being tempered/jammed by the PAF EW Network. When you jam a certain frequency, then it does not matter if base controller was out of EW range of PAF. The signal is tempered and can not be recovered in its original shape.



Again, i'd say, wise and intentional move by the Falcon pilot to keep a good balance between letting it come too close and letting it get well inside pak airspace.

From the videos where the jet is coming down after shoot-out, show that he was at considerable altitude, not something like hugging the terrain. Do you really think that MIG-21 was also dodging the eyes of Saab-2000?

Wg Cdr Noman hit him at just the perfect time.



Being shot by AMRAAM Proves only the point that, he was never too close for WVR missile lock, IAF claimed it to be an R-73 because one of the R-73s had burnt with the aircraft whose payload PAF could not show. That was the missile Indian media also claimed that it hit the F-16. Turns out its booster was found still fixed on pylon.

SAAB 2000 was blind
F16 BVRs have shorter range than mig21 side wingers
And abhi has inbuild radar so jamming doesnt matter
Or this happened

Frankly i will go with the second..its more likely

 

[Khan vilatey]

What really happens was not jamming but extremely inferior training of the IAF the pilot entered Pakistani airspace and was shot down. Jamming may just be an excuse as the pilot decided to CROSS THE BORDER. The pilot had inferior training. the su-30 crossed over as an attempt to protect its downed aircraft and was also shot down with wreckage falling in Indian occupied Kashmir.

also somebody made a video about this

as part of your duty in the 5 th generation war please like this video

kv

 

[DrWatson775]

Do you know this isn't the official stand of Pakistan.

DGISPR said Pakistan shot down two Indian aircrafts as they violated Pakistani airspace.

There are many such glaring discrepancies in Pakistan's official statements on 27th Feb.

I didn't say they didn't cross LoC.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Seemed interesting, but stopped reading when it said that PAF fared better than IAF in 1971. Sad that one cannot read about PAF achievements without having to read such jingoistic falsities and chest thumpings.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

What really happens was not jamming but extremely inferior training of the IAF the pilot entered Pakistani airspace and was shot down. Jamming may just be an excuse as the pilot decided to CROSS THE BORDER. The pilot had inferior training. the su-30 crossed over as an attempt to protect its downed aircraft and was also shot down with wreckage falling in Indian occupied Kashmir.

also somebody made a video about this

as part of your duty in the 5 th generation war please like this video

kv

Seems like someone exactly copied my content lol. Nice try my friend

 

[Raider 21]

and don't forget they then made their AMRAAM 'we got raped' Dodgers patches to wear with pride.

I have never understood that concept. They are probably the only air force in the world to have made a patch on evading missiles. If that is their level of motivation, then it is very sad that anyone would consider them to be a formidable enemy, let alone ever be part of an allied integrated strike package.

 

[araz]

This is least of the probability given that those Pakistani pilots were well aware the fact that Mig 21 was armed this highly accurate BVR n WVR missiles and could pose a huge threat for them.

I'm certain they would not take the risk of ambushing him inside Pakistan territory for the sake of claiming the wreckage alone.

Btw interestingly, DGISPR said, Su30 also violated Pakistani airspace but the wreckage fell off on the Indian side. So had they wanted, PAF guys could've shot the mig21 down before it crossed LoC and gave the same alibi saying it's wreckage fell off on the Indian side after being show down for crossing into Pakistani airspace.

In peace times there are norms of shooting an intruding fighter. PAF meely followed protocol so it wont be blamed as an aggressor. The IAF knows this which is why there was no escalation and probably why not more than 2 platforms were taken down. However I remain convinced PAF took down another Mig21 which fell in badgam. I would not know why PAF has not claimed it!
A

 

[AMRAAM]

However I remain convinced PAF took down another Mig21 which fell in badgam.
A

Any source or proof? Hearing this for the first time.

 

[Balbir]

In peace times there are norms of shooting an intruding fighter. PAF meely followed protocol so it wont be blamed as an aggressor. The IAF knows this which is why there was no escalation and probably why not more than 2 platforms were taken down. However I remain convinced PAF took down another Mig21 which fell in badgam. I would not know why PAF has not claimed it!
A

On the one hand you are saying PAF meely followed protocol only shot down the plane(mig21) which violated it's airspace so it wont be blamed as an aggressor and at the same time you are convinced PAF took down another Mig21 which fell in badgam which is 200 km away from LoC. See how illogical that sounds.