Opinion | What the IAF-PAF dogfight reveals

[Tps43]

Come on guys. No need for empty chest thumping. If that was the case, we have certainly missed a golden opportunity of controlling the air space at least over the Indian occupied J&K. We haven't cashed in the Indian stupidity of aggression, weakness Indian military especially IAF, and the best war condition of Pak military in past 72 years. We should have declared and enforced a no-fly zone on occupied J&K under the justification of Indian war crimes against innocent people of the occupied land. Alas, we have more philosophers rather than true leaders clinging to the power.

I am not even joking , and no it wasn’t golden opp , that opportunity yet to come

Man you got some loads of information, i know. I hope on some peacefull day, you share the nitty griitty of PAF wonders on 27 feb.

Not in months but yes in next few years when peace prevails here

 

[Secret Service]

I am not even joking , and no it wasn’t golden opp , that opportunity yet to come


Not in months but yes in next few years when peace prevails here

You will get digestion problems [emoji23]

 

[Tps43]

You will get digestion problems [emoji23]

Hahahahaha

 

[tarrar]

I have said this in another post & will say the same here as well.

Its not about the aircraft, its about the pilots who operate them make the difference & there is a massive difference in PAF & IAF pilots, as PAF is far superior than IAF pilots & this difference will stay even if India acquires new aircraft’s.

 

[Secret Service]

I have said this in another post & will say the same here as well.

Its not about the aircraft, its about the pilots who operate them make the difference & there is a massive difference in PAF & IAF pilots, as PAF is far superior than IAF pilots & this difference will stay even if India acquires new aircraft’s.

Good planning, courage and initiative also.

 

[_Sherdils_]

"... An IAF Mirage 2000 during a drill, 2017. It is only because of the force’s good training, situational awareness, and some luck that this audacious PAF mission failed...."
You can imagine what would have happened to the IAF had the PAF mission NOT failed. Hitting Indian army chief symbolically besides targeting five other iconic places of Indian military on ground, and shooting their planes down while enforcing air superiority in Indian occupied J&K is a 'failed' IAF mission and a success for the IAF. Well done IAF! We would certainly oblige again with our 'failed' missions when needed.

Hahaha

Come on guys. No need for empty chest thumping. If that was the case, we have certainly missed a golden opportunity of controlling the air space at least over the Indian occupied J&K. We haven't cashed in the Indian stupidity of aggression, weakness Indian military especially IAF, and the best war condition of Pak military in past 72 years. We should have declared and enforced a no-fly zone on occupied J&K under the justification of Indian war crimes against innocent people of the occupied land. Alas, we have more philosophers rather than true leaders clinging to the power.

They have 300 su-30MKIs. Unless you repeat Halwara or Panthankot type missions along with use of cruise missiles to flatten their air defence you cant impose a noy fly zone.

Anything you do will lead to war which you cant afford at the moment.

Zardari and Nawaz made sure we are at our weakest economically in decades.

 

[ziaulislam]

Yeah mini awacs . As a Pakistani I am proud to see that our inferior jets took sukhois to cleaners. But as a aviation enthusiast , I am disappointed by the performance of flankers.

Simply opens uo the weakness of radars and avionics of flankers...it also explain why china refused to use Russian avionics and radars on its flankers..instead china looks to buy a limited series(to get acess to engines) and than simply produces its own

 

[Arsalan 345]

https://www.ibtimes.co.in/indian-ar...will-indo-pak-tensions-escalate-photos-794676

 

[zulu]

yeh larka @Tps43 din ba din politician banta jaa rahaa hai Promises,promises and more promises

 

[CrazyZ]

To me it shows that IAF planners have built the wrong force for the task at hand. The Flanker was designed to shoot down American strategic bombers over long distances. It is not the best platform to engage in front line skirmishes with light fighters. It is expensive, has a large RCS, and vulnerable on the ground since it won't fit in hardened aircraft shelters at forward airbases. I see why they are clamoring for the Rafales.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

*In the Rajouri-Mendhar sector air skirmish a day after the Indian Air Forces’ (IAF) successful Balakot strikes, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) was able to create surprise and local superiority — technological and numerical — in a chosen battlefield.

yea so successful that it reduced Modi to complain that if he Had Rafales then the results would have been different and he would've have had to see what PAF did to IAF

 

[ghazi768]

How did India lose that edge?

This serial crime dates back to the Vajpayee government. In 2001, IAF projected the need of a new fighter to replace the MiGs. Its choice was more Mirage-2000s. Dassault was willing to shift its production line to India, the IAF knew the plane and loved it. By this time, the IAF would have had 6-8 more squadrons of the upgraded, Made-in-India Mirages with new missiles. The Rafale would probably not even be needed so desperately. PAF wouldn’t have dared to carry out the 27 February raid, and if it did, it would have been mauled. But then, George Fernandes, smarting under Coffingate and Tehelka, refused to go with a “single-vendor” deal. The full process for a new acquisition was launched"

We slept for a decade. The Pakistanis got their new F-16s and AMRAAM missiles from the US after 2010. Tactical balance in the air shifted. We, meanwhile, took until 2012 for a new fighter — Rafale — to be chosen. Except that defence minister AK Antony wouldn’t take a decision. Three of his negotiation committee of 14 dissented, so he set a committee above them. And he set up another committee of three outside “monitors” to supervise this committee. Finally, all inputs in, the choice was cleared. Sure enough, Antony ducked again.

He said three things at different times: Within the MoD, he then said, call fresh bids. To the media, he said he didn’t have headroom in the budget that year. And now, he told the media three weeks ago, that he put off the deal in the “national interest” since two eminent persons, Subramanian Swamy and Yashwant Sinha, had written letters pointing out problems in the deal and he had ordered an inquiry. He has since refused to talk about these letters even when chased by a reporter from The Print. The issue is too sensitive, he tells her. Chances are, his party knocked him on the head for nearly killing their Rafale story just to save his own neck. I will be pleasantly surprised if he talks about those letters again.

The earlier 126-aircraft MMRCA deal was dead by the time the NDA came in. The first wake-up call came early enough, with the Pathankot raid. As usual, the air forces were first off the blocks, and during aggressive patrolling, the IAF realised the PAF’s range superiority. It’s an unwritten story yet, but some MICA missiles were bought overnight, slung on Mirages which flew deliberately close enough for PAF to observe them. In the four years since, how many of our 40+ Mirages can even carry that missile? Don’t ask me for the truth because, as Jack Nicholson’s Marine Col. Nathan R. Jessep said in A Few Good Men, you can’t face the truth. Be grateful that those two on patrol on the morning of February 27 could .

As I promised, I am telling you about the real Rafale scandal without mentioning the Rafale deal. The Vajpayee government wouldn’t buy additional Mirages, scared of touching a single-vendor order. The MICA missile had first been sought by the IAF in 2001, the first only came in 2015 when Pathankot shocked the MoD to pull the file down from orbit. Existing Mirages then had to be upgraded. Two were upgraded by Dassault. HAL said it would do the rest. How many has it done yet? I warned you, you can’t face the truth.

Then it gets even more scandalous.

How did Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman cross the LoC? He was in visual pursuit of a PAF fighter for sure. But his controller was warning him to return. He didn’t. Because he couldn’t hear. As you’d expect in 2019, the battle zone had full radio-jamming. That’s why modern fighters have secure data links. Why didn’t that MiG have it? Ask the gallant bureaucrat of MoD who blocked the purchase for three years claiming that a defence PSU would make it. Don’t ask me his name, find out. You might learn another truth you don’t want to face.

That order has lately been placed. With Israel. Soon enough, all IAF fighters will have this secure data link. And you’d die of shame, when I tell you it is a purchase, worth a mere Rs 630 crore, less than half the price of one Rafale.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/colu...ght-reveals/story-dDa4H38Xtq7LPnj6DtkZRN.html

did anyone else too picked that this section of this article does not even mention Su-30 which Indian trolls used to sing praises on this forum..

France - Pakistan , Avionics & possibly Plane deal revival, Post cancellation of MRCA

 

[alee92nawaz]

Simply opens uo the weakness of radars and avionics of flankers...it also explain why china refused to use Russian avionics and radars on its flankers..instead china looks to buy a limited series(to get acess to engines) and than simply produces its own

I was just reading somewhere that syrian S300/200 failed to intercept Israeli jets attacking aleppo

 

[ziaulislam]

I was just reading somewhere that syrian S300/200 failed to intercept Israeli jets attacking aleppo

Its possible that the s300 might be over hyped as well.
Chinese systems are improvement over their russian counter part

 

[alee92nawaz]

Its possible that the s300 might be over hyped as well.
Chinese systems are improvement over their western counter part

Western or russian!