Rafale jets are not enough to face Pakistani JF 17: Shahid Latif

[Clairvoyant]

@Windjammer @The Eagle @Vapnope @PanzerKiel @masterchief_mirza @Major Sam @PakSword @Blacklight @Hareeb @DESERT FIGHTER @araz @Rafi @Zarvan @waz @M.AsfandYar @Basel @IceCold @crankthatskunk @airomerix @MastanKhan

Doubt the IAF will restrict itself to just 36 Rafales,there would certainly be follow on orders.

 

[Thorough Pro]

The mismatch in force, if any as you falsely claim, was not because IAF lacked the numbers, rather this was their fighting strategy that failed.

Can any conclusive doctrine be derived from 30 minutes air skirmish where there was complete mismatch in force strength on both sides??


Are MKI and M2Ks upgraded really superior to F-16 block52 armed with AMRAAM 120-C missiles?

Also they were only four in numbers compared to 24 PAF f-16s and JF17s menacing on them.

The fact is IAF had to scamble old Mig21s from Srinagar in haste as they were the closest to point of intrusion. Had Su30 were stationed in Srinagar as they currently are, situation would've been different. Of course, pakistan would have tried different strategy for it.

By the time it was over, two dozen Su30s and Mig29s had arrived in Kashmiri airspace but had to go back as there was no further attempt of intrusion by PAF.

 

[Basel]

sometimes even shahid latif does a lot of "hawae firing". we must admit the reality. rafale is a brilliant 4th gen jet. definitely better then JFT in almost every aspect. more range, better radar, better weapons, better payload, better avionics etc. it has given IAF an edge but it is not a game changer. JFT once gets the PL 15 and AESA radar will be able to effectively challenge the rafale while defending the pak air space. i think shahid latif should say that we can neutralize rafale by using the right tactics and planning. he was the project director of JFT so probably thats why he brags too much about JFT. it is a good start for the PAF but it is not raptor. be realistic.

Have you forgotten the news some time ago that PAF was more interested in AESA which was offered for JFT upgrade instead of one which was for block-3, now that make sense why PAF was more interested in it and why it was tested ASAP on JFTs.

 

[Xone]

@ Mastan Khan
Only proved it for the FOOLS living in a dillusional world,
Will you clarify who is living in delusional world? Will please share what you wrote 15 years back about it for us Sir ? I have been keenly reading your dissenting views,otherwise everyone harp on the same tune. Having one's own point of view in face of bigger opposition matters more. One can not can get holistic picture without such valuable experienced professional.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

In 1965 war, when Pakistan had the upper hand , we let go of momentum and let enemy regroup and we paid the price in 1971

We were faced with sanctions on weapons in late 60's
India used the extra time to get more lethal Fighter Jets

That is a Lesson we must not forget and beef up our defenses for final battle

The enemy is being reinforced with

• Apache Gunships
• Rafael
• Chinook Heavy Lift helicopter for high altitude
• More Mig29

 

[Saifullah]

Fun fact: JF-17 can actually fit a larger radar than Rafale. Having enough T/R modules on AESA is vital for radar output as well as electronic warfare capabilities.

On the downside, there is no way for JF-17 to match Rafale's flight profile (speed, acceleration, sustained and instantaneous turn, climb rate). PAF pilots might want to keep the fight at BVR range.

AESA radar will perform better on Rafale even though the size is bit smaller, as available power in Rafale is way above JF17.
If we keep working on the Jf's and improve the backend it will be more than enough to handle the Rafale.

 

[Suriya]

The mismatch in force, if any as you falsely claim, was not because IAF lacked the numbers, rather this was their fighting strategy that failed.

two things...
MKIs and M2ks didnt face block 52s
getting outnumbered by a foe half ur size is not justifiable by any standard. it means u were out classed out played.

In 30 minutes you can't even make Biryani and you guys have reached to so many comforting conclusions over air skirmish lasting same period of time.If this helps you get sound sleep so be it.

 

[Ghost 125]

In 30 minutes you can't even make Biryani and you guys have reached to so many comforting conclusions over air skirmish lasting same period of time.If this helps you get sound sleep so be it.

i admit in 30 minutes i can't make biryani...hell i cant even make it in whole day coz i cant even fry an egg...but PAF did shoot down 2 aircrafts of IAF in 30 minutes and achieved local superiority over a bigger foe. thats the only conclusion/fact.

 

[Ghost 125]

and i get sound sleep because PAF can shoot down 2 aircrafts of a bigger bully in 30 mints

 

[JohnWick]

In 30 minutes you can't even make Biryani and you guys have reached to so many comforting conclusions over air skirmish lasting same period of time.If this helps you get sound sleep so be it.

In WW2 a whole city was nuked in less than 30 sec forget 30mins.

 

[Akh1112]

Can any conclusive doctrine be derived from 30 minutes air skirmish where there was complete mismatch in force strength on both sides??


Are MKI and M2Ks upgraded really superior to F-16 block52 armed with AMRAAM 120-C missiles?

Also they were only four in numbers compared to 24 PAF f-16s and JF17s menacing on them.

The fact is IAF had to scamble old Mig21s from Srinagar in haste as they were the closest to point of intrusion. Had Su30 were stationed in Srinagar as they currently are, situation would've been different. Of course, pakistan would have tried different strategy for it.

By the time it was over, two dozen Su30s and Mig29s had arrived in Kashmiri airspace but had to go back as there was no further attempt of intrusion by PAF.

No. They arent. The RVV-AE is a pretty poor missile. It doesnt help that Flankers generally suffer from the same issues as the rest of the Russian aviation industry. Lack of R+D in avionics and sensors, combining the two really doesn't help the MKI. Also, on the M2K, it just didnt have a chance, it came under EW suppression and was knocked out of the fight. I dont think having SU-30's stationed in Srinagar would have done anything for the IAF. For the PAF, all they would have needed to do is just maintain distance.

 

[Suriya]

No. They arent. The RVV-AE is a pretty poor missile. It doesnt help that Flankers generally suffer from the same issues as the rest of the Russian aviation industry. Lack of R+D in avionics and sensors, combining the two really doesn't help the MKI. Also, on the M2K, it just didnt have a chance, it came under EW suppression and was knocked out of the fight. I dont think having SU-30's stationed in Srinagar would have done anything for the IAF. For the PAF, all they would have needed to do is just maintain distance.

It is something that would make interesting debate.
What if 4 su30s had scrambled instead of four Mig21s that day?

Today, they will take off as Su30 are actually stationed there.And I think PAF would certainty take hard look into account this possibility today as Su30 would be first responders to any PAF intrusion.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Actually you are wrong in calling a 30-minute scenario, for PAF it took only 6 minutes to trash IAF and its planning and preparation since February 14 or maybe even before that since Pulwama was a false flag only to pull Balakot fiasco.

In 30 minutes you can't even make Biryani and you guys have reached to so many comforting conclusions over air skirmish lasting same period of time.If this helps you get sound sleep so be it.

 

[Deltadart]

Doubt the IAF will restrict itself to just 36 Rafales,there would certainly be follow on orders.

Absolutely not, they have deep pockets and magalomanical dreams of ruling the world. They are sure to get as many Rafales as possible to achieve their nefarious goals.

 

[S10]

AESA radar will perform better on Rafale even though the size is bit smaller, as available power in Rafale is way above JF17.
If we keeping working on the Jf's and improve the backend it will be more than enough to handle the Rafale.

The latest RD-93MA has nearly 15% increased thrust over RD-93 on Block II. In addition, WS-13E is also available as an upgrade option. I don't think power is much of an issue on JF-17. There is only so many T/R modules you can pack into Rafale's small nose, regardless of power output.