Pakistani Liberals Should be Ashamed at Being on The Same Side as Foreign Fascists

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thread itself is racist. How much OP gathered hate against other religion such as Calling hindu with extremists & so on.

I'll admit that I skimmed through the article, but I thought it specifically talks about Hindutva Extremists and does not call all Hindus extremists.

 

[war&peace]

I'd change one thing about the OP - the people being referred to are 'liberal extremists' or 'extreme liberals' and not just all 'liberals'. Pakistani liberalism has many shades, and Pakistani 'liberals' like Mohammed Taqi, Gul Bukhari, Hussain Haqqani etc fall on the extreme end of the Pakistani liberal spectrum.

I and many other Pakistanis on this forum consider ourselves liberals, but we don't attack the military nor do we support or 'associate' with 'Western Fascists' or 'Hindutva Fascists'.

I would also like to change a few things in OP. I will just call them "libturds" to make it a simple, unified and a comprehensive term.

The only problem with blasphemy type laws is that every bhangi chamaar so called mulla is using and abusing it for their desires.

Agreed.

This is how some ppl in Pakistan think, wanna get rid of a Hindu or Christian or Ahmadi, just claim he committed a blasphemy, and that's it..., all zombies will have your back.

To some extent, yes

P.S. I'm neither liberal nor mulla supporter.

Good

 

[Kambojaric]

I'd change one thing about the OP - the people being referred to are 'liberal extremists' or 'extreme liberals' and not just all 'liberals'. Pakistani liberalism has many shades, and Pakistani 'liberals' like Mohammed Taqi, Gul Bukhari, Hussain Haqqani etc fall on the extreme end of the Pakistani liberal spectrum.

I and many other Pakistanis on this forum consider ourselves liberals, but we don't attack the military nor do we support or 'associate' with 'Western Fascists' or 'Hindutva Fascists'.

Extremism of anything is wrong, whether it be religion, nationalism or political ideology. No good comes out of being narrow minded. Liberal and religious extremists have far more in common than they would care to admit.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Liberal and religious extremists have far more in common than they would care to admit.

I disagree. The issue with Taqi and HH are not that they are liberals but they are anti-Pakistan. Thus the issue is about nationalism. You can be religious and be utterly opposed or enemy of Pakistan as much as you a liberal. A pious Indian Muslim, a pious Afghan Muslim or a pious Arab Muslim might and often do take opposing side to Pakistan.

People here conflate Islam with Pakistan when you know the two are exclusive. A Swede could be Muslim but have animus against Pakistan etc.

 

[Reddington]

These liberals are the O level , A level educated kids who were taught Foreign version of Pakistani historu and foreign ideas about Islam and Pakistan

Pakistni libtards are shameless creatures they cannot b ashamed

I also never came across any libturd in my whole life. Their numbers are so small that one even dont notice their presence in real life, but this satanic group has very long arms in electronic and social media. These are alien Ideas to a common Pakistani.

The problem with Pakistan is that both Mad Mullahs and Moom Batti Mafia are running amok. And state can't seem to impose its writ on them.

Mad Mullahs have better street power while Moom Batti Mafia and their supporters are in government/bureaucracy.
Mad Mullahs brainwash their students in madrassas while Moom Batti Mafia brainwash their students in A/O Levels.

Both are part of the problem.
State of Pakistan must deal with them both with IRON HANDS!!!!!!!

These liberals are the O level , A level educated kids who were taught Foreign version of Pakistani historu and foreign ideas about Islam and Pakistan

I also never came across any libturd in my whole life. Their numbers are so small that one even dont notice their presence in real life, but this satanic group has very long arms in electronic and social media. These are alien Ideas to a common Pakistani.

Don't underestimate them. They are being brainwashed in O/A Levels. They are being taught that Pakistan and India are not enemies. That we were/are one nation;just divided by border. They are being taught that Pakistan lost every war with India.
Just like TTP terrorists brainwash the children in madrassas, they are brainwashing them in A/O Levels. In a way, these people are even worse than those TTP suicide bombers. Because these people then go on to work in the government/bureaucracy. Take a look at our media/bureaucracy. These people are controlling media and have high positions in bureaucracy.

 

[KhalaiMakhlooq]

I would like to congratulate the author for a honest and well-thought through article and presenting the article without political innuendo and that is rare for a piece produced by someone who most would consider from a member of the elder generation.

I have taken the article and broken it down into easy-to-understand segments and provided an alternative viewpoint from my humble option.

Pakistani Liberals Should be Ashamed at Being on The Same Side as Foreign Fascists

"Shame" is a very strong word and using this word can raise eyebrows amongst a whole generation of people who are seen to be a perfectly valued segment of society. It seems this is opinion.

I have to strongly and openly disagree with the attempt to bundle together fascist and liberals. I find the introduction to the article as ridiculous as its premise.

There are two groups among whom a pathological hatred of Pakistan is becoming ever more pronounced and vicious.

Trying to associate a viewpoint with a biological function seems very "philosophical", if not just wrong. I'm not sure its a correct observation to associate vicious with libertarians.

The first group are Pakistani liberals themselves, whether those living in Pakistan or those living abroad. The second group are white westerners who identify as neo-Nazis/fascists and/or white supremacists.

Again, these two segments have nothing in common. I think a simple picture like drawing a venn diagram would prove this statement as false.

While modern western fascists and Pakistani liberals would most likely not make common cause with one another if specifically asked to do so in the public sphere, when it comes to what they think and say about Pakistan’s history, state institutions and cultural characteristics, the similarities are all too clear and all too horrifying.

The author has contradicted the previous paragraph here. There is a premise shift here to associate the issue here with the state character but I have made it clear this link is as ridiculous as its contradictions.

As a nation founded on the basis of sheltering, liberating and offering opportunity to the formerly colonised Muslims of what was the British Raj, Pakistan holds the distinction of being a state formed by and for Muslims. This is something that Prime Minister Imran Khan has rightly stated is a matter of pride that should be shared collectively throughout the Ummah (global Islamic community).

Modern Pakistanis are the most green, entrepreneurial, profit-seeking and ethical people that have come out of Pakistan, and this is of course, due to the deep values they sympathetically share with the state.

I'm not sure pride is a competing factor.

Inversely however, Pakistan’s identity as a state specifically formed to guarantee a large Islamic community the right to life, peace and happiness, continues to represent a target of hatred among western neo-Nazis.

This seems to be a classic literally device called disagree and amplify and doesn't add to the theory presented by the author.

The fact that western neo-Nazis have for nearly a century openly associated with Hindutva extremists is not a revelation. Hindutva’s founding father Vinayak Damodar Savarkar was an open admirer of European fascists and Nazis of early 20th century whilst many European fascists continue to oddly claim that they share a common lineage with those preaching the Hindutva doctrine.

This again seems to try to relate modern Pakistanis with Hindu extremists and Nazis, I'm not sure the simile is correct as hindu extremists are pro-state pro-orthodox and pro-conservative irrelevant old people.

Indeed it was the growth in the popularity of Hindutva within the British Raj that ultimately convinced Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah of the importance of the two nation theory as a means of protecting the lives of ordinary Muslims against terrorist mobs led by groups like RSS.

Indeed, again I'm sure Quadi Azam would have been called a liberal by his peers. A simple look at his works and life would seem to show that very clearly. A someone who was pro-change, pro-active, pro-future and entrepreneurial I'm sure all can agree he was something unlike the old and boring British Vicrotian-era.

But while the mutual admiration between Hindutva radicals and western white supremacists is one that has existed for nearly a century, the supine ideological alliance between Pakistani liberals and western fascists is one that dare not speak its name. The fact of the matter though is that such groups have the same anti-Pakistani talking points which include some of the following defamatory stances against Pakistan:

–“Pakistan harbours terrorism”

–“Pakistan uses religion to promote radicalism”


–“Pakistan’s blasphemy laws are uniquely horrible compared to seemingly every other nation”

–“Pakistan censors secular media content”

–“Pakistan is less democratic than India”


–“Pakistan has threatened Afghanistan”

I'm not sure the author has any genuine knowledge of what libertarians are. I'm not sure presenting loosely based opinions without any scientific study would prove the statements above. There are a whole generation of International Pakistanis who are very loyal and very patriotic whether they are overseas or not.

All of these horrible and despicable lies told about Pakistan are commonplace among the western far right who in their insatiable drive to demonise anything associated with Islam, are happy to spout talking points and even offer direct quotes from Pakistani liberals whose ideology is supposedly opposed to fascism on the European model.

Liberals are not less Islamic than anything. In fact if you judge by ethical and moral value they seem to be complementary to the Islamic virtuous life.

But if for some it is odd to see self-described “white supremacists” ally with Indian Hindutva extremists whose skin happens not to be white, it is perhaps even more peculiar for the European far right to join hands with Pakistani liberals in forgiving the crimes that the far-left post-Saur Revolution Afghan regime inflicted on Pakistan.

I'm note sure moving backwards in an argument from the author helps. An over-reaction from the author seems to be more emotional than anything else. Im sure he would be glad to see the rise of young successful Pakistanis.

It seems that among those who hate Pakistan, the only thing that need be consistent in their ideology is to slander Pakistan at all costs and as frequently as possible. Apart from this singular goal, all further attempts at ideological consistency go straight out the window.

The author raises the idea of consistency as a means of saying "you are either with us or against us" - something the bush regime is guilty of, and something that only leads to polarisation and injustice.

In this sense, Pakistani liberals are even more dangerous to the survival of the Pakistani state than are Hindutva extremists and western Islam hating fascists. This is the case because whilst Hindutva terrorists and fascist terrorists are utterly clear about their wish to eliminate Pakistan as a country, Pakistani liberals claim that they can offer salvation to Pakistan – a salvation that would require Pakistan to forgo all of its organic cultural characteristics and adopt those alien to Pakistan.

An over-reaction here, the author seems to saying that Pakistan hangs on the last-legs and is at its dying breath, I guess that is more of a metaphor for the past.

Therefore, whilst a Hindutva or fascist attempt to wipe out Pakistan could only be accomplished in a harrowing military battle, the agenda of Pakistani liberals seeks to erode Pakistan from within by destroying that which makes Pakistan, Pakistan. If the Pakistani liberals got their way, people would not even notice their country disappearing from beneath their feet. They would simply wake up after several decades and find that they were living in a foreign country that happened to live under a familiar green and white flag.

Again what is familiar and what is not is a matter of perception and things change everyday. Even rivers that flow through mighty mountains change their course.

Whilst Pakistani liberals constantly bully their fellow countrymen and women into renouncing Pakistan’s heritage and history, they refuse to criticise those who live to slander Pakistan as though for sport. There is no need to ask why this is. The truth is clearly self-evident.

This conclusion is unfair. The future of Pakistan is the future Pakistanis and the only thing causing chaos is the resistance to change itself.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

'Liberal' Muslims = Hindutva = Nazi = Islamophobes

 

[Mamadouso]

I think some of these liberal get excited by getting some attention from the West and then they play to their audience for fame and money. They are just like the ‘presstitutes’.

 

[SQ8]

These liberals are the O level , A level educated kids who were taught Foreign version of Pakistani historu and foreign ideas about Islam and Pakistan

I did those and I probably did more for Pakistan in R&D than you can accomplish for now.

Perhaps the issue isn’t classification of liberals than it is of ignorant idiots.

 

[Clutch]

Pakistani Liberals Should be Ashamed at Being on The Same Side as Foreign Fascists
Written by Adam Garrie on 2019-04-03

There are two groups among whom a pathological hatred of Pakistan is becoming ever more pronounced and vicious. The first group are Pakistani liberals themselves, whether those living in Pakistan or those living abroad. The second group are white westerners who identify as neo-Nazis/fascists and/or white supremacists. While modern western fascists and Pakistani liberals would most likely not make common cause with one another if specifically asked to do so in the public sphere, when it comes to what they think and say about Pakistan’s history, state institutions and cultural characteristics, the similarities are all too clear and all too horrifying.

As a nation founded on the basis of sheltering, liberating and offering opportunity to the formerly colonised Muslims of what was the British Raj, Pakistan holds the distinction of being a state formed by and for Muslims. This is something that Prime Minister Imran Khan has rightly stated is a matter of pride that should be shared collectively throughout the Ummah (global Islamic community). Inversely however, Pakistan’s identity as a state specifically formed to guarantee a large Islamic community the right to life, peace and happiness, continues to represent a target of hatred among western neo-Nazis.


The fact that western neo-Nazis have for nearly a century openly associated with Hindutva extremists is not a revelation. Hindutva’s founding father Vinayak Damodar Savarkar was an open admirer of European fascists and Nazis of early 20th century whilst many European fascists continue to oddly claim that they share a common lineage with those preaching the Hindutva doctrine. Indeed it was the growth in the popularity of Hindutva within the British Raj that ultimately convinced Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah of the importance of the two nation theory as a means of protecting the lives of ordinary Muslims against terrorist mobs led by groups like RSS.

But while the mutual admiration between Hindutva radicals and western white supremacists is one that has existed for nearly a century, the supine ideological alliance between Pakistani liberals and western fascists is one that dare not speak its name. The fact of the matter though is that such groups have the same anti-Pakistani talking points which include some of the following defamatory stances against Pakistan:

–“Pakistan harbours terrorism”

–“Pakistan uses religion to promote radicalism”


–“Pakistan’s blasphemy laws are uniquely horrible compared to seemingly every other nation”

–“Pakistan censors secular media content”

–“Pakistan is less democratic than India”


–“Pakistan has threatened Afghanistan”

All of these horrible and despicable lies told about Pakistan are commonplace among the western far right who in their insatiable drive to demonise anything associated with Islam, are happy to spout talking points and even offer direct quotes from Pakistani liberals whose ideology is supposedly opposed to fascism on the European model.


But if for some it is odd to see self-described “white supremacists” ally with Indian Hindutva extremists whose skin happens not to be white, it is perhaps even more peculiar for the European far right to join hands with Pakistani liberals in forgiving the crimes that the far-left post-Saur Revolution Afghan regime inflicted on Pakistan.

It seems that among those who hate Pakistan, the only thing that need be consistent in their ideology is to slander Pakistan at all costs and as frequently as possible. Apart from this singular goal, all further attempts at ideological consistency go straight out the window.


In this sense, Pakistani liberals are even more dangerous to the survival of the Pakistani state than are Hindutva extremists and western Islam hating fascists. This is the case because whilst Hindutva terrorists and fascist terrorists are utterly clear about their wish to eliminate Pakistan as a country, Pakistani liberals claim that they can offer salvation to Pakistan – a salvation that would require Pakistan to forgo all of its organic cultural characteristics and adopt those alien to Pakistan.

Therefore, whilst a Hindutva or fascist attempt to wipe out Pakistan could only be accomplished in a harrowing military battle, the agenda of Pakistani liberals seeks to erode Pakistan from within by destroying that which makes Pakistan, Pakistan. If the Pakistani liberals got their way, people would not even notice their country disappearing from beneath their feet. They would simply wake up after several decades and find that they were living in a foreign country that happened to live under a familiar green and white flag.

Whilst Pakistani liberals constantly bully their fellow countrymen and women into renouncing Pakistan’s heritage and history, they refuse to criticise those who live to slander Pakistan as though for sport. There is no need to ask why this is. The truth is clearly self-evident.

https://eurasiafuture.com/2019/04/0...t-being-on-the-same-side-as-foreign-fascists/

@war&peace

Excellent article... It really articulates the neo-liberal (libTurd) threat from within.

I have been echoing this sentiment for years now. I have nothing against liberals (I consider myself one)... Just the treasonous liberals of Pakistan are the worst of the worst.

Pakistani Neoliberal == TTP terrorist ... Two peas in a pot.

 

[Awan68]

These liberals are the O level , A level educated kids who were taught Foreign version of Pakistani historu and foreign ideas about Islam and Pakistan

I did A levels, that is not the source of these vermin. They are few and are sponsored.

 

[niaz]

In my opinion, he is nothing more than a self-aggrandizing journalist pretending to be a “Geopolitical expert with emphasis on Eurasia”. I have seen him once on the Russian TV (RTV) program ‘Cross Talk’. Most of the time he was exaggerating in the extreme. His modus operandi is that he picks up a piece of news and then builds up a sinister story around it based on pure speculation. Washington Post describes him to be:

"A unique hybrid of Ceaser Flickerman (from the "Hunger Games") Withnail (from Withnail and I), and a fat Sherlock Holmes, Garrie is someone who wants to be noticed".

I would not waste my time by replying to the dribble in his article. Suffice to say that our founding father, Quaide-Azam was also a liberal.

 

[Safriz]

I did those and I probably did more for Pakistan in R&D than you can accomplish for now.

Perhaps the issue isn’t classification of liberals than it is of ignorant idiots.

You probably grew up in the 80s and 90s.
We all were bombarded with plenty of milly naghmay and had hamd o naat on PTV .
The O level education curriculum was also strictly monitored.
None of that exists now

 

[curious]

I disagree. The issue with Taqi and HH are not that they are liberals but they are anti-Pakistan. Thus the issue is about nationalism. You can be religious and be utterly opposed or enemy of Pakistan as much as you a liberal. A pious Indian Muslim, a pious Afghan Muslim or a pious Arab Muslim might and often do take opposing side to Pakistan.

People here conflate Islam with Pakistan when you know the two are exclusive. A Swede could be Muslim but have animus against Pakistan etc.

TTP were anti Pakistan too, that doesn't mean they weren't fanatics also, different type of fanatics(or agents serving foreign handlers).
Its true there may be many Muslims opposed to Pakistan, but its also true that Pakistan is an ideological Islamic state. One doesn't refute the other. Pakistan is not claiming to be a Khilifa state just yet, so we don't have to expect all Muslims in the world to owe allegiance to it.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

ideological Islamic state.

1

so we don't have to expect all Muslims in the world to owe allegiance to it.

2

Tell me?

• is there one universal Islam? 1
  
• or one made in Pakistan limited to Pakistan Islam?2

Tell me?

• is there one universal Islam?
• or one made in Pakistan limited to Pakistan Islam?

Because you just implicitly created two Islams and then placed a geographic border around one.