UAE Mirage to PAF and SH to IAF Extract

[BATMAN]

first of all very nicely put by hon. Mastan Khan.
I personally tend to agree that PAF should not miss the opportunity, atleast not for the simple reason that they didn't asked for it.
I don't expect the price to be more than 10 million per plane because other wise not only it makes it unatractive for PAF but it is not worth any more than this a decade or two decade old platform can simply be not at par with JF-17.
In case PAF had the option to go for Mirrages than they can immediately get hands on to at least one squarden and PAF should see it as an opportunity to induct block 2 JF-17 just a little later.
Navy surely be the first benificary but i believe PAF need to establish one extra squarden in Balauchistan specially around Gawadar port.
Money should not be a problem because France need time to build Rafael and UAE will not be retiring those mirrages any time sooner than 2012.
With addition of X UAE mirrages there should be no issues relating to induction as usually which are expected with new plat form.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Just get 16-18 for one Sqn (save money for other platforms) and deploy them with Navy , it will make a big difference if war breaks out in near future.
Why to buy all 60 and UAE should give PAF a deal like buy one get one free

I want to add one more thing, by deploying them with Navy will reduce burden on F-16 Sqn too for air cover over sea (during war) as Mirage 2000-9 can play both the role of intercept and attack.

 

[mshoaib61]

 

[Luftwaffe]

The UAE Mirages comprises of atleast 30 Mirage 2000 upgraded to 2000-9 standard while 20 of them are single seat Mirage 2000-9 and another 10-12 are double seat 2000-9 version..
Definitely price tag of those old 30 Mirage 2000 upgraded to standard 2000-9 will be lower as compared to others..

If PAF acquires 40 of these mixed upgraded and the original Mirage 2000-9 single/double seat under $850 Million is possible..

Yes we can commit more time to develop JF-17s and i do not see the number halting at 250 it might go well above adding 4 more squadrons..

 

[gowthamraj]

If the price of JF-17 is equal to a Second Hand Mirage 2K.Which is said be experts as very capable.So i don't see a reason that PAF should not acquire them.Because whenever there is talk of planes there are 2 problems.

1.The logistics and experience.Since Pakistan already operates Mirage so this problem is neutralized.

2.The problem being most highlighted here by members is that despite being a good deal PAF simply does not have the money to buy them.So why don't we try credit.After all there is no shortage of money for Arabs.So a little persuasion would help.What do you say.

I mean here is JF-17 and here is second hand Mirage 2k both with the same price.But one is far more capable.And even there is a cmhance of credit.I Mean how could one just walk away from such a deal???.It's a Win Win situation of Pakistan.It's very strange of PAF to ignore such deals

no buddy IAF also tryed to get second hand mirages from arab countries. but they demand more than 50 million per plane. but our goverment expected it around 35 million us dollars. mirages are way better than f-16 in air to ground role(include nuclear delivery). but in air combact itr powerless engine makes huge disadvantage. but it have great self-defence equipment against SAMs. if it available for paf in just 20 million it huge bonus for you

 

[mshoaib61]

Mirage 2000-9

Mirage 2000-9 is the export variant of Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2. The UAE was the launch customer, ordering 32 new-build aircraft, comprising 20 Mirage 2000-9 single-seaters and 12 Mirage 2000-9D two-seaters. Initial deliveries of the UAE Mirages began in the spring 2003. A further 30 of Abu Dhabi's older Mirage 2000s will also be upgraded to Mirage 2000-9 standard.

The UAE's Mirage 2000-9s are equipped for the strike mission, with the Shehab laser targeting pod (a variant of the Damocles) and the Nahar navigation pod, complementing the air-to-ground modes of the RDY-2 radar. They are also equipped with a classified countermeasures system designated "IMEWS", which is comparable to the ICMS 3. The UAE is also obtaining the "Black Shaheen" cruise missile, which is basically a variant of the MBDA Apache cruise missile similar to Storm Shadow.


2000EAD Single-seat multirole 22
2000-9 Single-seat 20
2000-9D Two-seat trainer 12
2000RAD Unique reconnaissance variant 8
2000DAD Two-seat trainer 6
Total 68

 

[mshoaib61]

 

[mshoaib61]

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Just get 16-18 for one Sqn (save money for other platforms) and deploy them with Navy , it will make a big difference if war breaks out in near future. Why to buy all 60.

I want to add one more thing, by deploying them with Navy will reduce burden on F-16 Sqn too for air cover over sea (during war) as Mirage 2000-9 can play both the role of intercept and attack.

They have air refueling pods too , they can go deep then F-16s

 

[MastanKhan]

QUOTE=adeos amigo;639733]Mastan khan, beautifully written sire, i would say every word of it is praise worthy. But what is your say on the price???? to make the deal worthy. If its higher then thunders, lets suppose 20 million or above, would it justify cost-benefit aspect???

waiting anxiously for your reply.


regards.[/QUOTE]



Hi,

My brother Qsaark beat me to the punch-----ask yourself the question----what is the price of freedom---what is the price of parity with neighbour.

Look at it this way---JF 17 is not ready today---minimum three to five years for it to mature into a potent fighter. The SD 10 missile that it will operate is a very heavy missile for an aircraft of this size---secondly---we will just start to get the FC 20 in the begining of 2015---which might be delayed as well---.

Remember when I used to talk about integration of a new system and how much time it would take to train your pilots on this new aircraft---a lot longer than what some were saying.

As for the FC 20---a lot of people are betting on it being here by 2015---well it will just start to come in at that time---it may take about two to three years to get the 36 planes---now another new plane---growing pains all over---integration.

F 16 blk 52 and mlu's---again growing pains and integration issues.

There is no single F 16 gone into mlu's at this stage ( please correct me )---mirage rose upgrade---please pak air force give us a break---the m2k9 is as potent as a blk 52 as it can be. This aircraft would not need any upgrades for another 15 years---basically it is considered as the last upgrade for the m2k. Whereas rose mirage 3 and 5's will be done within 5 to 8 years time. There is no comparison between a rose mirage and an m2k9.

PAF maynot have the m2k9 on its agenda---looking at the previous record of paf and its procurement---it is not surprising---because they have a very very poor history of deciding in buying the right equipment to defend the country. Regardless whatever excuse the PAF puts forward---sanctions---sanction---sanctions---they made the decision to buy what they did---it happened on their watch---sadly most of the pakistani public is not familiar with paf has not done---they only hear the story of bravado---the PAF has been hiding their shortcomings by claiming that they will lay their lives for the country and that they are the best pilots overall---I don't think it would be a very pretty picture if someone opened up the pandora's box.


It was in the same manner when the british were selling their used frigates---pak navy was not serious enough in making the right bid---they had not done their homework right---they put a low bid---the south americans came and snatched the frigates right under the paks eyes---and the pak navy kept looking in shock and disbelief.

We were lucky that no one cancelled the augusta b 90's order when the rumours came out of bribes----guess what---just like the mirage 2k order---what if the augusta were also cancelled---then what would have happened---.

Most of you people give too much credit to the men in uniform---there is a lots of chest thumping and not much else. If it was not for the poor management and mistakes and errors of the indians in their procurement---we would truly have been doomed.

 

[MastanKhan]

Paface,

" Who let the dogs out "----I was just sitting doing my own thing and then this thread pops up---wallah---.

When do you start building an air craft carrier----not at time of war but in times of peace---becasue it will take about 3--4 years to pass the budget, come up with a design etc etc---then 4--5 years to build it----then another 5 years to integrate it into the navy---close to 15 years---.

PAF failed horribly in analyzing the threat from india after Musharraf Wajpayee meating---for that reason they were toying around with sampling different aircrafts after 9/11---till 2005.

The confrontation of 2002, when indian and pak armies faced each other for a whole year was not even an eye opener for the PAF---they carried on happy go lucky. 4 years wasted in ordering a platform---4 years wasted in getting an mlu started for its old F 16's---that was till 2005. Now we are in 2010---not a single mlu F 16 ready yet---mlu hasnot even begun ( is it )---.

I want to wake up the young pakistanis---PAF has been living in ETHER for the last 30---40 years---. Don't take their word that every thing is okay and that they will take care of it all---well they won't---they got nothing to take care of anything except for some obsolete flying machines ( if you compare against the enemy ).

Pakistanis must question the failures of PAF---they must ask them why did they lag behind in ordering the fighter aircvraft right after 9/11----why were they not prepared to get them right away.

Pakistan and india are sitting on a powder keg---it will blow up any time any day---PAF will say we will die for the country---big deal---every jack dies for his country---don't the indian pilots die for their country---what they are forgetting to tell us is that afterwards we will be left to be massacred by the enemy at free will.

 

[gowthamraj]

Paface,

" Who let the dogs out "----I was just sitting doing my own thing and then this thread pops up---wallah---.

When do you start building an air craft carrier----not at time of war but in times of peace---becasue it will take about 3--4 years to pass the budget, come up with a design etc etc---then 4--5 years to build it----then another 5 years to integrate it into the navy---close to 15 years---.

PAF failed horribly in analyzing the threat from india after Musharraf Wajpayee meating---for that reason they were toying around with sampling different aircrafts after 9/11---till 2005.

The confrontation of 2002, when indian and pak armies faced each other for a whole year was not even an eye opener for the PAF---they carried on happy go lucky. 4 years wasted in ordering a platform---4 years wasted in getting an mlu started for its old F 16's---that was till 2005. Now we are in 2010---not a single mlu F 16 ready yet---mlu hasnot even begun ( is it )---.

I want to wake up the young pakistanis---PAF has been living in ETHER for the last 30---40 years---. Don't take their word that every thing is okay and that they will take care of it all---well they won't---they got nothing to take care of anything except for some obsolete flying machines ( if you compare against the enemy ).

Pakistanis must question the failures of PAF---they must ask them why did they lag behind in ordering the fighter aircvraft right after 9/11----why were they not prepared to get them right away.

Pakistan and india are sitting on a powder keg---it will blow up any time any day---PAF will say we will die for the country---big deal---every jack dies for his country---don't the indian pilots die for their country---what they are forgetting to tell us is that afterwards we will be left to be massacred by the enemy at free will.

nice thought. . . between india also named for delays. i think its fate for developing countries. any how thankz for pratical post rather than emotional and funny post

 

[brahmastra]

won't be surprise if India goes for SH. as we got MKI-air superiority, migs - again for air defence. we need solid ground attack planes which can go deep in to enemy territory and 'womit loads of ****' as mig-27 and jaguars are getting seasoned and atleast an age old toys.
what 'think tank' has to say about it if they put themself in India's shoes.

 

[fatman17]

^^all this is based on a radio talk!!!???

 

[brahmastra]

^^all this is based on a radio talk!!!???

sorry if off topic. mistake. not included in radio talk. just the thought.