TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[BON PLAN]

Maybe i better write in French? i am saying that you are repeating yourself and this makes you stand out like a troll. But your answer is still same.

Then lets see what is the limit of your knowledge..

Please list the technologies regarding producing a fighter jet that Turkey has and doesnt have. Compare them with able producers. Dont forget to show reliable sources.

Since you said, building an UAV is something, a fighter is another... Tell us what makes the differences in detail by comparing, so we can learn.

Turkey is developing a turboshaft engine for T129, this means we have some technologies. Tell us what other techs we need to develop an engine like F110. What we lack?

i am talking about technical details.

OK, please answer me in french now.

The difference between a turboshat engine and a fighter engine?
1) First your turboshaft is always in developpement phase. We could speak of it when this developpement will be ended, I say positively ended.
2) A turboshaft is not running with the same internal temperature than a fighter engine. Not made to rum from iddle to full power in a couple of seconds, not adapted to support 10G, not made to run with the same endurance, the T/W ratio of a turboshaft has nothing to do with a fighter engine one.
To use a comparison, a turboshaft engine is a VW Golf. A nice product. An engine fighter is a Porsche GT4.

So : good luck for the turboshaft engine. It's indeed in the right direction. After that it's another master piece.

Ask India. Their engine fighter is, as for now, a drone engine or a ship turbine, but not an engine fighter....

 

[BON PLAN]

(Because of engine first patch will use f110)

and the second, and third, and....

 

[Successwill]

OK, please answer me in french now.

The difference between a turboshat engine and a fighter engine?
1) First your turboshaft is always in developpement phase. We could speak of it when this developpement will be ended, I say positively ended.
2) A turboshaft is not running with the same internal temperature than a fighter engine. Not made to rum from iddle to full power in a couple of seconds, not adapted to support 10G, not made to run with the same endurance, the T/W ratio of a turboshaft has nothing to do with a fighter engine one.
To use a comparison, a turboshaft engine is a VW Golf. A nice product. An engine fighter is a Porsche GT4.

So : good luck for the turboshaft engine. It's indeed in the right direction. After that it's another master piece.

Ask India. Their engine fighter is, as for now, a drone engine or a ship turbine, but not an engine fighter....

You cannot give any detail. All you have is shallow knowlegde you read here and there, and cheap talk. You re a time waster. You deserve to be ignored.

 

[xbat]

and the second, and third, and....

you are not worth to answer

 

[WebMaster]

PDF allows free speech and people can hold difference of opinion. Anyone insulting anyone will be banned. We can convey our points with insults and belittling each other. People need to accept difference of opinion, not everyone will think like you.

 

[BON PLAN]

You cannot give any detail. All you have is shallow knowlegde you read here and there, and cheap talk. You re a time waster. You deserve to be ignored.

ignore me Bro. I don't care.
Fact is that I'm a mecanical engineer, so aware of these global issues.
You are angry because you know that all I said is true.
No turkish fighter engine in 2030....

 

[Successwill]

belittling each other

Then why do you allow these guys who belittle our capabilities? All they do here is verbiage without basing their argument on a fact. thats a big paradox what you say and what you do is total opposite

 

[BON PLAN]

Then why do you allow these guys who belittle our capabilities? All they do here is verbiage without basing their argument on a fact. thats a big paradox what you say and what you do is total opposite

No argument?
Just see history of jet engine. Just see the chase of the chinese to be abble to master what is one of the most complicated objects building by men so far.
It's not without reasons that the sole world top engines makers are among the main economical powers of the world (or were among) : USA, Russia, GB, France.
The next will be China.

Even Germany lost the capacity to study alone an engine.
Japan is not among the world class one in this field.
India struggle to, without success as for now.

Turkey is N° 17..... So another time, GOOD LUCK.

 

[Deino]

Then why do you allow these guys who belittle our capabilities? All they do here is verbiage without basing their argument on a fact. thats a big paradox what you say and what you do is total opposite

We do not belittle your capabilities . in fact I admire what Turkey archived in recent years and you can surely be proud of - but we turn it into a realistic perspective! Just go outside your little bubble of fantasy and tell me any internationally respected analyst, who rates your TFX and indigenous engine plans as realistic?

That does not mean we belittle you, we only say it is not that easy, to develop a turboshaft engine for an UAV or helicopter and a fifth generation type are something very much different and given all experience, comparisons with other much more experienced countries in this fields,your self-promoted goals are plain impossible.

As such I can only agree with this;

No turkish fighter engine in 2030....

Why do you guys take ever post that does not fit your opinion as an insult and why do you always only see black = "Deino and other foreign troll belittle your capabilities" and white = " we are the greatest, we will fly a fifth generation engine in 202x" where there are still several shaded of grey in between?

 

[Successwill]

We do not belittle your capabilities . in fact I admire what Turkey archived in recent years and you can surely be proud of - but we turn it into a realistic perspective! Just go outside your little bubble of fantasy and tell me any internationally respected analyst, who rates your TFX and indigenous engine plans as realistic?

That does not mean we belittle you, we only say it is not that easy, to develop a turboshaft engine for an UAV or helicopter and a fifth generation type are something very much different and given all experience, comparisons with other much more experienced countries in this fields,your self-promoted goals are plain impossible.

As such I can only agree with this;




Why do you guys take ever post that does not fit your opinion as an insult and why do you always only see black = "Deino and other foreign troll belittle your capabilities" and white = " we are the greatest, we will fly a fifth generation engine in 202x" where there are still several shaded of grey in between?

!Stop repeating yourselves. !

Just prove your allegations. Just tell me:

Turkey has tech A, doesnt have B
Turkey can produce part C, cannot part D

Compare in details with countries, since you wanna be mr. i know everything.

PROVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mustafa27]

We do not belittle your capabilities . in fact I admire what Turkey archived in recent years and you can surely be proud of - but we turn it into a realistic perspective! Just go outside your little bubble of fantasy and tell me any internationally respected analyst, who rates your TFX and indigenous engine plans as realistic?

That does not mean we belittle you, we only say it is not that easy, to develop a turboshaft engine for an UAV or helicopter and a fifth generation type are something very much different and given all experience, comparisons with other much more experienced countries in this fields,your self-promoted goals are plain impossible.

As such I can only agree with this;




Why do you guys take ever post that does not fit your opinion as an insult and why do you always only see black = "Deino and other foreign troll belittle your capabilities" and white = " we are the greatest, we will fly a fifth generation engine in 202x" where there are still several shaded of grey in between?

Okay tell me the experience that you have in the defence industry and how you know better then turkish people that worked inside big companies and etc and how these people that have spend decades in foreign companies are making unrealistic timelines.

Tell me what is unrealistic about having an engine for tf-x in 10-15 years with national industry when you have already spent at least 10 years already working on various engines and being successful.

Tell me that we don't have the necessary metallurgy when we do.
Various facilities are going to be opening at the end of this year or next year.

Edit:

Various facilities:

TAI wind tunnel center: operational 2022
R&D Facility: operational 2021
TAI composite facility: operational 2021
TAI-Tübitak Near field RCS test & analyse facility & TAI-Far field RCS test facility: operational 2021
TAI Fully Anechoic Chamber facility: no date on this one
TAI Lightening test facility: again no date

Edit:

Also i don't understand why you guys are even talking when phase 1 is going to be ending next year with all the design work being finished and then development is going to begin.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

@Deino I think it's worth valuing Turkey's experience with the GE F110. We tend to overlook it because a lot of F-16 users are capable of MRO and all, but the Turks had been doing manufacturing work for 2-3 decades. I think that does give Turkey more engine experts (I imagine doing license manufacturing work for GE results in a spate of certifications, specialized engineers, etc). They certainly have a basis for the work if they can sustain the investment. Rather, the timelines are just very aggressive.

 

[azbaroj]

Cam'on. Turkey already has most critical part of the engine. Metallurgy sience. Turkey has developed high temperature and pressure resistant metals already and using it on TS-1500.

And Also TEI has achived the production capability of every part of Engine. Look at this image. Tei now can produce every single dot in the image including red ones. since september 2017.

Another critical technology is Single Crystal Turbin Blades. TEI can also produce that.

And TEI is not dependent on another country. They take raw metal and convert this pieces to high tech metals

If you want to watch the conference video(Turkish) here is the link

Two years ago TEI(Company who is developing TE-1500) said "If they win the contract they will make an engine in 14 years." Which is 2032 in this case. Nobody claims that National engine will be ready in 2025. TFX will use american f110 engine for development and the first patch. Even Ismail Demir said first patch of TFX can be 4++ gen.(Because of engine first patch will use f110). Second patch will use domestic engine and Since first patch production will start arour 2030 second patch can be 2040. which means there is plenty of time to test the engine. Unless some critical thing hapens and they fast forward to production


Edit: Also What the hell happened this forum design?

And Where is everybody?

Everyone flew fearing new interface of PDF . More than 72% of members expressed their de satisfaction to the new interface. PDF has replaced a good one with a worst one . It is disgusting. I can't stay here for a long time.

 

[Mustafa27]

There you go watch this to have a little idea, English subtitled conference 2019.

 

[BON PLAN]

@Deino I think it's worth valuing Turkey's experience with the GE F110. We tend to overlook it because a lot of F-16 users are capable of MRO and all, but the Turks had been doing manufacturing work for 2-3 decades. I think that does give Turkey more engine experts (I imagine doing license manufacturing work for GE results in a spate of certifications, specialized engineers, etc). They certainly have a basis for the work if they can sustain the investment. Rather, the timelines are just very aggressive.

Turkey was producing engine from CKD kits.
ie, as always and specially the US case, the most critical parts came from US suppliers.... ie blisk, single crystal blades, FADEC....