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Turkiye's Minister of National Defense Guler: Agreement with Pakistan for KAAN is about to be signed

It doesn't matter much *why* India's economy is larger in this context. The fact is that India has a larger economic engine to draw upon than Pakistan, and it is sustainable in the long-term for continuous growth.

Pakistan does not. In the future it won't be able to compete at an equal level because its economy cannot sustain it.
Unlike India, Pakistan's war plans do not involve occupying a massive portion of enemy territory. And Pakistan does not want or need to compete with India at a platform level.
A healthy economy forms the backbone of a powerful military and R&D. India has this. Pakistan does not.
You are assuming Pakistan will try to copy everything India does. Pakistan deters India from starting a war in an economical manner.

Indians want to bring AMCA into the battlefield, Pakistan cannot develop and produce 5th gen jets on its own; so Pakistan collaborates with Turkey on KAAN, and always has the J-35 option. Pakistan gets 5th gen capabilities at a small fraction of the cost.

Indian Navy has shit loads of surface ships. Pakistan Navy with a budget of 600 million dollars gets some modern frigates and submarines and focuses on sea denial ops - deters Indian Navy.
 
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Unlike India, Pakistan's war plans do not involve occupying a massive portion of enemy territory. And Pakistan does not want or need to compete with India at a platform level.

You are assuming Pakistan will try to copy everything India does. Pakistan deters India from starting a war in an economical manner.

Indians want to bring AMCA into the battlefield, Pakistan cannot develop and produce 5th gen jets on its own; so Pakistan collaborates with Turkey on KAAN, and always has the J-35 option. Pakistan gets 5th gen capabilities at a small fraction of the cost.

Indian Navy has shit loads of surface ships. Pakistan Navy with a budget of 600 million dollars gets some modern frigates and submarines and focuses on sea denial ops - deters Indian Navy.
What if India goes on a massive conventional bombing campaign across Pakistan using missiles and long range artillery and rockets (brahmos episode times 1000 and on steroids), how would Pakistan deter them without going nuclear?

In the future Pakistani conventional offensive capability will be easily co-opted with missile defense and next gen A2AD capability that India's much larger economy and unfettered access to western tech will be able to afford.

In other words Pakistan is screwed big time unless it wants to go nuclear in response to any conventional strikes from India...

Hindutva forces have checkmated sepoys, more so on the political/economic front then the increasingly inconsequential kinetic battlefield. Sepoys failed to take advantage of the lopsided favorable scenario when IA was defeated in '62 and all they had to was walk into Kashmir and take it, what hope is there now or anytime in the future.
 
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This is why you dont have people whose entire eduction was centered around strategic war planning, running your country for 50 years. Yet 90% of people here blame civilians (selected by army) for everything... This is proof that Pakistani people need maturing before you can expect mature leaders. Hopefully the events of the last few years are enough for people to see.
 
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Just getting information from Indonesian Aerospace CEO in CNBC Indonesia that there are 52 Indonesian aerospace design engineers working in TAI design center in Turkey at the moment. I wonder whether this is also related to Kaan as well.
 
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Unlike India, Pakistan's war plans do not involve occupying a massive portion of enemy territory. And Pakistan does not want or need to compete with India at a platform level.

You are assuming Pakistan will try to copy everything India does. Pakistan deters India from starting a war in an economical manner.
Pakistan has goals to occupy Kashmir according to what it claims. Not exactly a "massive" portion but it is territory under their control nonetheless.

And yes, Pakistan has no reason to copy every acquisition India makes, I don't believe that either.

But even maintaining a proportional and credible deterrence against India is becoming difficult for Pakistan due to its failing economy.

Regrading the field of R&D, there is literally no excuse for a nation of 220mil+ and growing to not develop a sustainable indigenous R&D ecosystem to satisfy its defence needs and even export. But this is also related to a healthy economy and correct policy decisions.
 
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Pakistan has goals to occupy Kashmir according to what it claims. Not exactly a "massive" portion but it is territory under their control nonetheless.

And yes, Pakistan has no reason to copy every acquisition India makes, I don't believe that either.

But even maintaining a proportional and credible deterrence against India is becoming difficult for Pakistan due to its failing economy.

Regrading the field of R&D, there is literally no excuse for a nation of 220mil+ and growing to not develop a sustainable indigenous R&D ecosystem to satisfy its defence needs and even export. But this is also related to a healthy economy and correct policy decisions.
Pakistan can't even design, leave alone manufacture a four cylinder ICE, 125 year old tech, nor is there any effort or desire to put money in R&D in that pathway. And even it wanted to there's no money, and won't be there for a long time, maybe never. Pakistan is in irreversible decline.
 
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This is cooperation between 2 companies
Just getting information from Indonesian Aerospace CEO in CNBC Indonesia that there are 52 Indonesian aerospace design engineers working in TAI design center in Turkey at the moment. I wonder whether this is also related to Kaan as well.
I asked my connection in Indonesian Aerospace Today who is involved in KF21/IFX program, yup some of the 52 engineers are working for TFX KAAN projects while some others for different programs based on his information.
 
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"Hydrocarbon-rich Azerbaijan has money. Pakistan does not but could transfer know-how. Once combat-proven, the Kaan could be an option for countries without access to Western-made fighter aircraft.” - Ozgur Eksi, a Defense Analyst in Ankara
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saudis sent a req to the british to join Tempest, however, itll probably get declined, at which point i can see them joining us. If the Indians were smart, theyd push for KSA to join AMCA by offering them HUUUUGE benefits and significant workshare

India is incapable of executing AMCA on their own at this point
 
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What if India goes on a massive conventional bombing campaign across Pakistan using missiles and long range artillery and rockets (brahmos episode times 1000 and on steroids), how would Pakistan deter them without going nuclear?
This sort of campaign is going to lead to the international isolation of India, because not only is it acting like a rogue state testing the limits of nuclear war, it is also an act of terrorism which will result in the deaths of hundreds of foreigners.

Pakistan deters them by threatening them to retaliate with 3 times the conventional force; and if that is impossible, then by definition, you have entered the nuclear territory.

Nothing scares Indians more than the thought of their bharat mata being turned into a giant dish of radiocative roasted beef.
In the future Pakistani conventional offensive capability will be easily co-opted with missile defense and next gen A2AD capability that India's much larger economy and unfettered access to western tech will be able to afford.
Pakistan is getting KAAN.
In other words Pakistan is screwed big time unless it wants to go nuclear in response to any conventional strikes from India...
This has been the reality for a long time. Swift retort was such a big deal because it made the world realise Pakistan does have the conventional capability to fight and win under the full war threshold.
Hindutva forces have checkmated sepoys, more so on the political/economic front then the increasingly inconsequential kinetic battlefield.
Pakistan has done a terrible job on the soft power front - how does some Bihari or Dravidian get to lay claim to the inventions of the Peshawar valley? How is the country which supported Mukhti Bahini, LTTE, TTP, BLA etc. not considered a terrorist state, but the one who provides diplomatic support to non-terrorist fighters in disputed territory is?
Sepoys failed to take advantage of the lopsided favorable scenario when IA was defeated in '62 and all they had to was walk into Kashmir and take it, what hope is there now or anytime in the future.
They instead chose to wait 3 years, walk into Kutch, had another opportuinty with Grand Slam which they ruined by changing command at the last minute.

In 1947, a single armoured car squad could've taken all of Kahsmir, had Jinnah's orders been obeyed.
Pakistan has goals to occupy Kashmir according to what it claims.
Pakistan has not claimed this.
Not exactly a "massive" portion but it is territory under their control nonetheless.
Maybe if Modi tries to occupy border areas in Baltistan, Pakistan will return the favour in Jammu and Kashmir - but that is just a skirmish, not a full war.
And yes, Pakistan has no reason to copy every acquisition India makes, I don't believe that either.

But even maintaining a proportional and credible deterrence against India is becoming difficult for Pakistan due to its failing economy.
170+ Pakistani nuclear weapons are aimed at every city, town, and village in India. That is enough deterrence.

Fighting skirmishes like 27th feb with limited numbers of high tech platforms is not expensive at all.
Regrading the field of R&D, there is literally no excuse for a nation of 220mil+ and growing to not develop a sustainable indigenous R&D ecosystem to satisfy its defence needs and even export. But this is also related to a healthy economy and correct policy decisions.
Agreed.
 
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What if India goes on a massive conventional bombing campaign across Pakistan using missiles and long range artillery and rockets (brahmos episode times 1000 and on steroids), how would Pakistan deter them without going nuclear?

In the future Pakistani conventional offensive capability will be easily co-opted with missile defense and next gen A2AD capability that India's much larger economy and unfettered access to western tech will be able to afford.
I don't think there's much to do in this scenario, you just have to rely on your existing air defence network - and then retaliate in the same way, barrage of missiles in response
 
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I expect a show of force under KAAN's canopy, like this:

View attachment 950306


It's time for us to stand up, together. With our own technology, our own weapon systems.

We have this capacity as a whole, the problem is that we cannot come together.
Hopefully Saudi Arabia can join the programme too, we have seen their investment in Akinci drones.

Although I have spoken to many Turkish people and they are not fond of collaboration with many other countries apart from Azerbaijan, especially not Arab nations or Chinese-allies in fear of technology being stolen.
 
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Hopefully Saudi Arabia can join the programme too, we have seen their investment in Akinci drones.

Although I have spoken to many Turkish people and they are not fond of collaboration with many other countries apart from Azerbaijan, especially not Arab nations or Chinese-allies in fear of technology being stolen.
Some of these concerns are unfounded, some are based on real experience. I don't want to go into details, such reactions should be considered natural. A potential co-operation in combat aviation, and a strategic step on this scale, are literally uncharted seas for us. On the other hand, breaking down this barrier has the extraordinary potential to add a new perspective to world history.

I maintain the perspective of strategic gains and expansion of common interests, which is our debt to future generations. It is not a question of a fighter jet, but of taking our rightful place in the new world. For this reason, I support with all my flesh and blood any kind of high-tech cooperation between our countries.
 
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