Retired Army Officers are Dropping Their Ranks From Social Media Profiles

[VCheng]

Army needs to be focused on army, full stop! You won't ever find me suggesting a bastardized model in Pakistan. But for this, all sides have to shun the use of the crutch, whether on offer or sought.

And thus it will never happen, nor be allowed to happen.

 

[Ace of Spades]

As such how the PTI government performed in the nation's largest province and how it handled its relations with its coalition partners were both topics on the table with the establishment.

Under normal circumstances absolutely not. But was this PTI government without its benefactors? When you take favors from people, then you have to take their feedback too.

establishment decided that given the foreign and domestic pressures, the PTI set up was also not working. The only option was to continue going down the hole with PTI or try to do a reset.

if you look at it objectively, the establishment did what they thought was the right thing to do

Army aka establishment is under the state of Pakistan; which translates to people of Pakistan and their will; just another organization which from Pakistan's inception has gotten the taste of ruling the country. This "all knowing" "always right" mentality has gotten establishment where even India couldn't get them to; all that needs to be done is go to streets and talk to bloody civilian, you will have your answer.

PTI would've had by popular disapproval gone down if they had stayed in power for the rest of tenure due to sheer incompetence of buzdar and co. But it was never establishment's call to make! It is for pakistanis to decide via general elections.

 

[blain2]

And thus it will never happen, nor be allowed to happen.

Never say never.

Army aka establishment is under the state of Pakistan; which translates to people of Pakistan and their will; just another organization which from Pakistan's inception has gotten the taste of ruling the country. This "all knowing" "always right" mentality has gotten establishment where even India couldn't get them to; all that needs to be done is go to streets and talk to bloody civilian, you will have your answer.

PTI would've had by popular disapproval gone down if they had stayed in power for the rest of tenure due to sheer incompetence of buzdar and co. But it was never establishment's call to make! It is for pakistanis to decide via general elections.

My friend, your point is stating the obvious. It's like stating "stealing is wrong". Everyone knows that yet it goes on. So the question is how to fix it.

When you berate the military, do realize that our politicians are not known for their high-performance stints in governance either. When you have no money left due to economic mismanagement, it has direct implications for national defense and then you have other stakeholders worried. You can tell them it is none of your business but it sort of is their business too.

I understand this is a never-ending, cyclical argument but you cannot come at it from one vantage point only.

 

[fna]

Jango, Buzdar was a bad choice and in a province that pushes 54% of Pakistan's revenue, the performance and his governance "paralysis" was a major issue. Your question would be perfectly fine if we were talking of a government that had no dependency on the establishment for policy formulation and strategy. This, fortunately or unfortunately, was not the case with the PTI government. The much talked about "crutch" was exactly this alignment with coalition which kept PTI in power. The establishment had an interest in it continuing and when there was a breakdown in that, among other things, then the establishment too decided to abandon the ship.

As such how the PTI government performed in the nation's largest province and how it handled its relations with its coalition partners were both topics on the table with the establishment.


Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I am optimistic but with Pakistan you just never know.

was he truly bad, or was it that he was a blocker for aleem khan, and hence a victim of propoganda. who we now know has business contacts with the cpos relatives and friends.

 

[Olympus81]

So now what next.

Do the neutrals go absolutely neutral? Will they? If the past is anything to go by, that wouldn’t happen.

Seems the public, politicians etc. have learnt a lesson. The establishment can be pushed back when proper pressure is applied. Doesn’t set a very good precedent but let’s hope the establishment have learnt their lesson and do a reset from within.

The politicians being politicians will need to understand that bringing the generals into their fight will only be detrimental to their politics.

 

[Ace of Spades]

So the question is how to fix it

Isn't it obvious; it's always been a very black and white fix.

Trial who have taken themselves above the state and constitution. Not to give NROs and not to give calls to judges to keep "doors open for all political stake holders" to use them later for own's benefits. And have rule of law that will sort out corrupt politicians, bureaucrats. Is it too much to ask or just too moral to ask?

But who is willing to go for fix; it's always been "peti para mentality" rather than institutes singling out individuals. This complacency is where this reaction from public is stemming from..

You can tell them it is none of your business but it sort of is their business too.

Nope; none of their business.

 

[fna]

Yes, learn the constitution/law please. I am not an expert but even I can tell that what happened was EXACTLY as per the constitution of Pakistan.

PTI has no legal argument on the entire VoNC. None whatsoever including the lotay claim because their votes did not even matter in the end.

Also "Popularity" is a fleeting concept. Don't get too carried away by that. It was the same popularity that saw people distributing sweets on the streets of Pakistan in the past when the military took over and then later asking for "democracy" etc.

that argument is like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underarm_bowling_incident_of_1981. or Mankading (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_out#Running_out_a_batsman_"backing_up") or bodyline series. perfectly legal but unethical. as SR said hamain pata hai bap ka baap kaun hai.

 

[Jango]

Army needs to be focused on army, full stop!

Cannot disagree with that.

 

[Olympus81]

Isn't it obvious; it's always been a very black and white fix.

Trial who have taken themselves above the state and constitution. Not to give NROs and not to give calls to judges to keep "doors open for all political stake holders" to use them later for own's benefits. And have rule of law that will sort out corrupt politicians, bureaucrats. Is it too much to ask or just too moral to ask?

But who is willing to go for fix; it's always been "peti para mentality" rather than institutes singling out individuals. This complacency is where this reaction from public is stemming from..



Nope; none of their business.

I tend to agree here.

The fix is rather simple. A slow but sure accountability drive to sieve through corrupts no matter how well connected.

This deal making business for political expediency by the establishment has lifted the anecdotal veil.

 

[baqai]

Conspiracy Theory: I am sure i am going to get a lot of laugh emojis specially from a little bit west of Sweden but hey wanted to get it out of my system so bear with me :p

it would be so funny that in the end it all turns out to be grand scheme of plan, IK and Establishment were always on the same page, a distortion was created to give the opponents a ray of hope so they could come forward to the point of no return and get bitch slapped.

Right now i have little to no doubt that PTI will be able to get a lot if not majority of seats in the coming elections, given the performance they were giving (or atleast the perception of failure they had for so called jahil people) it would had been hard for them to retain their status quo, everything worked brilliantly in favor of IK while the puppet master grins

 

[TsAr]

The CoAS is to retire in Oct and then a reset is possible as such beating their own service on political issues is not helping and thus the feedback to these individuals to tone it down.

Well you never know he might bring in someone who is thinking on the same lines as him.

 

[VCheng]

Never say never.

Yes, but once a cake is baked, it cannot be unbaked. Now one must eat what has been baked, no other way around it.

 

[sparten]

When you berate the military, do realize that our politicians are not known for their high-performance stints in governance either. When you have no money left due to economic mismanagement, it has direct implications for national defense and then you have other stakeholders worried.

Oh FFS.
Your arguments are like that of someone who blew up a dam and then gets angry that they are being blamed for the destruction when it was the water which has caused the damage.

This is on the establishment. Full stop. They did this and they must take the blame.

 

[Abubakar Minhas]

All retired officers are expected to operate with decorum when in retirement which includes not denigrating their own service and also not putting doubts on the chain of command given the association and weight of opinion of these retired personnel within the service.

There were some in the times of Bhutto/Zia who resigned their commission (as they were serving) because they did not agree with Zia as was the case in Gen Ayub's time. Gen Bajwa is not in the same situation as Zia (there's no military take-over or extra-constitutionalism at play) and he has communicated to the retired officers (I know of some cases where the CoAS has written directly to retired officers) to address their questions. This is besides having marathon sessions with serving/retired officers in major garrison towns.

The point is that the Army has very limited options (each act is looked as a pro for one side and con for the other) and senior retired officers piling on aren't helping either because they are no longer actively serving and as such don't have the full appreciation of the constraints that those currently serving (and in the know) would have. I say this having heard from someone who received a "My dear..." letter. ;-)

The CoAS is to retire in Oct and then a reset is possible as such beating their own service on political issues is not helping and thus the feedback to these individuals to tone it down.

Hmm why do they keep using their ranks during civil service? Most of them dont do any good their either.

 

[crankthatskunk]

I bet all of them will still be collecting their pensions and benefits without a problem, except those who already lost those privileges for violating their Code of Conduct.

Calling Americans to help with IMF loans is int he code of conduct of COAS. Or other similar acts by COAS!!