Retired Army Officers are Dropping Their Ranks From Social Media Profiles

[Solidify]

You do it by "crook" and the same will happen to IK/PTI. Set the right precedence even if you/your party don't get the dividends themselves. It will pay off in the future.
Keep in mind, everyone is learning from the unfolding situation, including the establishment. Anyone who is wearing a star on his collar is looking at the impact of the situation on their service and will be that much more careful in the future.

Yeah sure bringing SS pml in regime change to power WAS NOT HOOK OR CROOK ??
Was that legitamate, legal, under Constitution Law mandate ???
See the bigger picture ... the old farts have no excuse or know how to tackle PTI popularity
The old NEED Software update where OBSOLETE wallas need to thrown in HELL FIRE Khalaas.

 

[Jango]

Under normal circumstances absolutely not. But was this PTI government without its benefactors? When you take favors from people, then you have to take their feedback too.

Then let's not pretend that the establishment doesn't have a role in things, a role which it shouldn't.

 

[blain2]

OK, let's say for argument's sake that Buzdar and IK were a bad choice but Hamza and Shahbaz are a good choice? How do we make that leap of faith?

You don't and I am not asking you to take that leap but the establishment decided that given the foreign and domestic pressures, the PTI set up was also not working. The only option was to continue going down the hole with PTI or try to do a reset.

Unless you are a hard-core partisan, if you look at it objectively, the establishment did what they thought was the right thing to do and not because they suddenly had new found love or alignment with PDM/PML. The latest Punjab elections prove that they won't weigh in any anyone's favor.

 

[Jango]

And then let's also agree that the recent detirioration in things is due to the establishment as well...since after all, they were that removed the PTI government, because PTI didn't listen to it's benefactors.

 

[blain2]

Yeah sure bringing SS pml in regime change to power WAS NOT HOOK OR CROOK ??
Was that legitamate, legal, under Constitution Law mandate ???
See the bigger picture ... the old farts have no excuse or know how to tackle PTI popularity
The old NEED Software update where OBSOLETE wallas need to thrown in HELL FIRE Khalaas.

Was that legitamate, legal, under Constitution Law mandate ???

Yes, learn the constitution/law please. I am not an expert but even I can tell that what happened was EXACTLY as per the constitution of Pakistan.

PTI has no legal argument on the entire VoNC. None whatsoever including the lotay claim because their votes did not even matter in the end.

Also "Popularity" is a fleeting concept. Don't get too carried away by that. It was the same popularity that saw people distributing sweets on the streets of Pakistan in the past when the military took over and then later asking for "democracy" etc.

 

[Solidify]

Yes, learn the constitution/law please. I am not an expert but even I can tell that what happened was EXACTLY as per the constitution of Pakistan.

PTI has no legal argument on the entire VoNC. None whatsoever including the lotay claim because their votes did not even matter in the end.

Also "Popularity" is a fleeting concept. Don't get too carried away by that. It was the same popularity that saw people distributing sweets on the streets of Pakistan in the past when the military took over and then later asking for "democracy" etc.

But you understand what happened was WRONG
and there is HUGE CORRUPTION, SPOILT, MISUNDERSTOOD, FLAWED system currently by Pakistan Administration
who as I can see from just glancing from news headlines reading between the lines super mega confusion at stake back in their mindsets?

 

[VCheng]

And then let's also agree that the recent detirioration in things is due to the establishment as well...since after all, they were that removed the PTI government, because PTI didn't listen to it's benefactors.

Agreed, with the observation that they will also fix what they have wrought, no worries there either.

 

[blain2]

Then let's not pretend that the establishment doesn't have a role in things, a role which it shouldn't.

That is already established. IK's government being formed in 2018 had the establishment involved which should not have happened.

If the establishment is taking a step back then all sides should be happy with that instead of bringing the establishment back into controversy.

Also, just like from time to time the previous COAS have told their command not to interface with the politicians, all politicians should also ensure that they are not meeting with anyone from ISI etc.

But you understand what happened was WRONG
and there is HUGE CORRUPTION, SPOILT, MISUNDERSTOOD, FLAWED system currently by Pakistan Administration
who as I can see from just glancing from news headlines reading between the lines super mega confusion at stake back in their mindsets?

No, it was not wrong. Your party lost its parliamentary majority. A pretty straight-forward, constitutional maneuver by the opposition.
Had the votes of your lotay counted, they didn't, you would have been correct about corruption.

 

[Jango]

That is already established. IK's government being formed in 2018 had the establishment involved which should not have happened.

If the establishment is taking a step back then all sides should be happy with that instead of bringing the establishment back into controversy.

Also, just like from time to time the previous COAS have told their command not to interface with the politicians, all politicians should also ensure that they are not meeting with anyone from ISI etc.

If meeting with dissident MNA's, making a deal with NS and guaranteeing him a return, handling the return of Ishaq Dar etc is taking a step back, then what can I say.

The only thing which you can construe as taking a step back from politics is changing the det structure of ISI, and now instead of a dedicated Brig handling things, you have a Lt Col as the point man.

Agreed, with the observation that they will also fix what they have wrought, no worries there either.

That's going splendid isn't it!

 

[Solidify]

That is already established. IK's government being formed in 2018 had the establishment involved which should not have happened.

If the establishment is taking a step back then all sides should be happy with that instead of bringing the establishment back into controversy.

Also, just like from time to time the previous COAS have told their command not to interface with the politicians, all politicians should also ensure that they are not meeting with anyone from ISI etc.


No, it was not wrong. Your party lost its parliamentary majority. A pretty straight-forward, constitutional maneuver by the opposition.
Had the votes of your lotay counted, they didn't, you would have been correct about corruption.

I know about No confidence motion
BUT look what happened after SS imported Govt came to power
losing rupee from Rs174 to Rs221 to date is not CORRUPTION
than I FAIL To understand your IQ or intellect or Knowhow
I halt to answer on your mindset which is similiar like theirs.

 

[Jango]

To sum it up, the only thing that threw a spanner in the works was the public pressure.

Had we not seen a response like we saw right after the ouster, Nawaz Sharif would have been on his merry way back to the country, PTI would have been pummeled hard from all sides, and dissent would have been quashed with an iron fist.

The estab and the newcomers thought that just like before, the public would greet the incoming with garlands, while the outgoing will be thrown shoes at. It didn't happen this time. That's what ruined the equation for everyone, aur ab pasoori par gayi hai.

Beech main shurli chor kar, har jaga aag laga kar, end main jab aap ki daal nhn gali and things didn't go according to your plan, to phir kaho now I am truly neutral? Please.

 

[Bilal.]

Apologists can do all the cold analysis they want and try to defend the indefensible. The fact on the ground is that the institution has gotten its due share of anger from the people of Pakistan which has now become a deep seated hate unless steps are taken to dissipate it which itself may take many years.

The institution is below the state and it’s people no matter how much it tries to cling to its colonial past and try to harbour a sense of superiority.

As I said in the early days. You might save Bajwa but you will lose your honour and dignity in the process. Well now I can say: Congratulations for achieving it.

 

[VCheng]

That's going splendid isn't it!

This will all work out, I have no doubt. Just give it some time.

 

[Solidify]

To sum it up, the only thing that threw a spanner in the works was the public pressure.

Had we not seen a response like we saw right after the ouster, Nawaz Sharif would have been on his merry way back to the country, PTI would have been pummeled hard from all sides, and dissent would have been quashed with an iron fist.

The estab and the newcomers thought that just like before, the public would greet the incoming with garlands, while the outgoing will be thrown shoes at. It didn't happen this time. That's what ruined the equation for everyone, aur ab pasoori par gayi hai.

Beech main shurli chor kar, har jaga aag laga kar, end main jab aap ki daal nhn gali and things didn't go according to your plan, to phir kaho now I am truly neutral? Please.

there is HUGE CORRUPTION, SPOILT, MISUNDERSTOOD, FLAWED system currently by Pakistan Administration
who as I can see from just glancing from news headlines reading between the lines

the old farts have no excuse or know how to tackle PTI popularity
The old NEED Software update where OBSOLETE wallas need to thrown in HELL FIRE

 

[blain2]

If meeting with dissident MNA's, making a deal with NS and guaranteeing him a return, handling the return of Ishaq Dar etc is taking a step back, then what can I say.

The only thing which you can construe as taking a step back from politics is changing the det structure of ISI, and now instead of a dedicated Brig handling things, you have a Lt Col as the point man.



That's going splendid isn't it!

Let's not be selective here yet again. "meeting with dissident MNA's, making a deal with NS and guaranteeing him a return, handling the return of Ishaq Dar etc is taking a step back, then what can I say." All of this went on in the run up to 2018 formation of the PTI government too. Guess who was doing the leg work for IK/PTI then? It was ISI! Alignment with coalition partners entailed meeting "dissidents, bringing MQM (which was out of favor with both IK and establishment), BNP in and countless other orchestrations.

So one cannot be selective in their critique because then it makes us hypocrites because you have to look at each party's original sin. All and sundry have made use of the establishment and ISI's good offices and they only decry the same when the latter is no longer working with them.

Implement the "Charter of Democracy" to its fullest and then you leave no choice or reason with the establishment to poke its nose where it does not belong.

Army needs to be focused on army, full stop! You won't ever find me suggesting a bastardized model in Pakistan. But for this, all sides have to shun the use of the crutch, whether on offer or sought.