Rafale jets are not enough to face Pakistani JF 17: Shahid Latif

[Suriya]

27th February 2019 proved that now air warfare is about system and doctrine Vs system and doctrine and on that day superior birds like MKI and M2Ks upgraded were not able to do anything, so it's not just Rafael or JFT it's much more then that.

Can any conclusive doctrine be derived from 30 minutes air skirmish where there was complete mismatch in force strength on both sides??

Those superior birds like MKI and M2Ks upgraded were not able to do anything

Are MKI and M2Ks upgraded really superior to F-16 block52 armed with AMRAAM 120-C missiles?

Also they were only four in numbers compared to 24 PAF f-16s and JF17s menacing on them.

The fact is IAF had to scamble old Mig21s from Srinagar in haste as they were the closest to point of intrusion. Had Su30 were stationed in Srinagar as they currently are, situation would've been different. Of course, pakistan would have tried different strategy for it.

By the time it was over, two dozen Su30s and Mig29s had arrived in Kashmiri airspace but had to go back as there was no further attempt of intrusion by PAF.

 

[Dalit]

We have heard this game changer BS before. First it used to be Israeli upgraded flying coffins that could destroy Pakistan within a minute. After that came French Mirage 2000. PAF had no answers to Mirage 2000. After that we had the Su-30 MKI that would run circles around Pakistan. Now the Indians are putting their trust in another French fighter. We will see.

LOL it is delicious though that Modi sarkar needs to use Pakistan in every sentence to defend his failed Rafale scandal. Rafale acquisition is marred by incompetence and corruption. Even the Indians know this.

 

[Suriya]

I think you have got your answers on this thread. Rafale is an excellent fighter. Having said that, your country's on duty officers too much praising of a jet (even French don't go to that level) is just unbelievable.

Serving IAF officers don't do that.
Praising of Rafale done by retired experts in the media and some also did do realistic assessment.

Shahid Lateef has his own reasons. The biggest reason is that he knows its a flexible jet. Technology is evolving and Pakistan doesn't have any restrictions or the jet doesn't have any limitations on the usage of new things. The journey from block 1 to block 3 is a good evidence to see how much JF 17 has evolved.

Technology is also evolving for Rafales. The ones India getting are the latest version of Rafales. Obviously, it has enough scope for upgradation in future. Heck, IAF also upgrading Mirage 2000s and especially Su30s with AESA radars .

By the time you will get the delivery of 36 Rafales, PAF will have acquired many more block 3s and upgraded the older ones (with added techs) at ten time less cost than your 36 Rafales.

By the time PAF inducts block 3s, IAF also would have inducted 83 homemade Tejas-mk1 with AESA radars.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Serving IAF officers don't do that.
Praising of Rafale done by retired experts in the media and some also did do realistic assessment.


Technology is also evolving for Rafales. The ones India getting are the latest version of Rafales. Obviously, it has enough scope for upgradation in future. Heck, IAF also upgrading Mirage 2000s and especially Su30s with AESA radars .


By the time PAF inducts block 3s, IAF also would have inducted 83 homemade Tejas-mk1 with AESA radars.

For Tejas-mk1 even a person like "Abhijet Iyer" doesn't have a good word.

 

[Dem!god]

Lol... Political statements wont change facts on ground. May be this is for home consumption. If mig 21 bison can shoot down F16 , where does jf17 stand.

 

[Suriya]

For Tejas-mk1 even a person like "Abhijet Iyer" doesn't have a good word.

Abhijet Iyer is F-21 peddler of course he will say what he says.

 

[Vapnope]

After watching this sort of usual stuff from Pakistan one thing comes to my mind.

I know you guys love Indian defense analysists like Praveen shahaney, Ajai Shukla or Abhijit Iyer-Mitra and they are famous on PDF for obvious reasons.

But is there anyone in Pakistan who does similar critical analysis of Pakistani military, please name one if you know.


@Windjammer @The Eagle @LeGenD @Vapnope @PanzerKiel
@masterchief_mirza
@Major Sam
@PakSword @Blacklight @Hareeb @DESERT FIGHTER @araz @Rafi @Zarvan @waz @M.AsfandYar @Basel @IceCold @crankthatskunk @airomerix
@MastanKhan @FOOLS_NIGHTMARE

I have posted Agha Amin's write up here. Kaisar Tufail write ups have been shared here. I have posted Tajammal Hussain Malik's thoughts here as well. I have also shared Lt col Habib Ahmed. You should read about their work for they have criticized higher command and colleagues.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Abhijet Iyer is F-21 peddler of course he will say what he says.

Well, in F 21, you have a plane at least.

 

[Progressive1]

iif it cant be backed by facts , than it is usual loudmouthing for domestic consumption

 

[Basel]

Can any conclusive doctrine be derived from 30 minutes air skirmish where there was complete mismatch in force strength on both sides??


Are MKI and M2Ks upgraded really superior to F-16 block52 armed with AMRAAM 120-C missiles?

Also they were only four in numbers compared to 24 PAF f-16s and JF17s menacing on them.

The fact is IAF had to scamble old Mig21s from Srinagar in haste as they were the closest to point of intrusion. Had Su30 were stationed in Srinagar as they currently are, situation would've been different. Of course, pakistan would have tried different strategy for it.

By the time it was over, two dozen Su30s and Mig29s had arrived in Kashmiri airspace but had to go back as there was no further attempt of intrusion by PAF.

Are you playing innocent or you don't have knowledge of air warfare??

If IAF had less number of birds in air then your government must have sacked every top IAF official as to why they were not ready, it also shows that your IAF totally underestimated PAF, as they were in similar delusion as you Indians were in before 27th February 2019 PAF response, that MKI is F-22 of South Asia and it's a missile truck which can take down multiple F-16 (top bird of PAF) so less can take more although IAF have far more advance 4+ gen birds then PAF,

Also M2K upgraded were considered Superior by Indians to PAF F-16s as they have Rafael tech now in them with better EW and situational awareness and better IR missiles. MICA BVR was also much hyped.

What PAF did on 27th is that it showed that it didn't take its enemy capabilities lightly and that is why it work hard to perfect it's operational capabilities in its available assets, and all that is based on what doctrine PAF adopted based on what it faced and what it have.

Previously it was MKI, M2K, Spider and S-300 now it's Rafale and S-400 on which Indian do Chest Thumps.
Wars are not fought like that and it's not 1971 where Pakistan had to fight war and Civil war in area which was more then 2000km away from its bigger Part of land.

 

[The Raven]

Can any conclusive doctrine be derived from 30 minutes air skirmish where there was complete mismatch in force strength on both sides??


Are MKI and M2Ks upgraded really superior to F-16 block52 armed with AMRAAM 120-C missiles?

Also they were only four in numbers compared to 24 PAF f-16s and JF17s menacing on them.

The fact is IAF had to scamble old Mig21s from Srinagar in haste as they were the closest to point of intrusion. Had Su30 were stationed in Srinagar as they currently are, situation would've been different. Of course, pakistan would have tried different strategy for it.

By the time it was over, two dozen Su30s and Mig29s had arrived in Kashmiri airspace but had to go back as there was no further attempt of intrusion by PAF.

There was a certain element of luck and timing involved in 27 Feb. The PAF timed their strike very well, when they knew the IAF were winding down their operations. If the PAF where outnumbered by a similar ratio, the results would have been different. And I agree, you can't read too much into a brief skirmish. In a full blown war, where the IAF have the advantage of numbers, and if they were to more effectively use those numbers to overwhelm the PAF, the result will not be the same. It won't quite be the are superiority which most Indians believe, but both sides will suffer heavy losses.

 

[alee92nawaz]

Can any conclusive doctrine be derived from 30 minutes air skirmish where there was complete mismatch in force strength on both sides??


Are MKI and M2Ks upgraded really superior to F-16 block52 armed with AMRAAM 120-C missiles?

Also they were only four in numbers compared to 24 PAF f-16s and JF17s menacing on them.

The fact is IAF had to scamble old Mig21s from Srinagar in haste as they were the closest to point of intrusion. Had Su30 were stationed in Srinagar as they currently are, situation would've been different. Of course, pakistan would have tried different strategy for it.

By the time it was over, two dozen Su30s and Mig29s had arrived in Kashmiri airspace but had to go back as there was no further attempt of intrusion by PAF.

Hahahaha lame excuses.

 

[TsAr]

Abhijet Iyer is F-21 peddler of course he will say what he says.

Anhijet Iyer was full of praise for the Rafale.

 

[Secret Service]

too much speculations about Rafale. Balance is already shifted towards India after Rafales, S400, Apaches and Chinooks. It is hard to believe but this is the reality.

 

[darksider]

@Windjammer @The Eagle @Vapnope @PanzerKiel @masterchief_mirza @Major Sam @PakSword @Blacklight @Hareeb @DESERT FIGHTER @araz @Rafi @Zarvan @waz @M.AsfandYar @Basel @IceCold @crankthatskunk @airomerix @MastanKhan

You saw this video today?it ia four or five days old.
Have some obsession therapy.how you guys keep searching on Pakistani sites for news.