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Plan to restore Pakistan - Lets have suggestions to restore our pride

Muse is hitting a home run here !

Agreed that

1. We have to start from grass root level up, really it will be college to college up.
2. It will take it's own time, dynamics can not be accelerated.
3. No need to worry about leaders, leader will come when we get together.

I will suggest that we study the spread of Islam.
For many many Mecca years Islam did not spread too quickly.
It will only a small group of people, who were dedicated to the cause
Those group of small people became the core group in Madina

Once the critical mass was achieved there, the tipping point was achieved
and after that it was an avalanche effect.

We should take the same project plan blue print, and form a core group.

Is this a good suggestion ?

can we invite more people to contribute to this thread ?

What more suggestions can we have to improve our approach ?

Well, you have to form a platform. What are the major issue and proposed solution:

- feudalism
- education
- economy
- law and order

You can't be a one-issue party.
Most people would agree on many issue but, unfortunately, as soon as Islam comes into the picture, everything breaks down. Many people don't seem to understand that Pakistan is only about 75% Sunni. There are 20% Shia and 5% non-Muslims. Qaid-e-Azam wanted a separate homeland for Muslims so we would not be subject to Hindu domination, but he did not want us to become a Sunni dominated country, either.

Many Muslims don't seem to understand that in a religiously diverse country like Pakisan, you can't impose any one form of Islam on everyone. Religion has to be a private matter. The Europeans finally figured it out after centures of sectarian violence. Maybe we Muslims will not learn our lesson for centuries and will continue killing each other pointlessly. Meanwhile, the rest of the world will be building bases on the Moon and Mars.
 
Dont know if this should be posted here or not but i think we can learn something from it.

RESTORE TO US THE PAKISTAN OF 1948



The Cabinet Meeting was to be held – the ADC inquires, “Sir what will be served in the meeting…Tea or Coffee?”



Jinnah looked up and replied sternly…the ADC was taken aback! “Whichever of the Ministers wish to have tea or coffee should drink it before leaving his home or when he returns home the Nation’s money is for the Nation and not for the Ministers!”

After this instruction – as long as he was the Head of the nation …nothing except water was ever served in the Cabinet meetings.



Some items amounting to Rs.38.50 paisa had been purchased for the Governor House. He asked for the bill; a few items were purchased on Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah’s request he gave instructions that amount was to be deducted from her account. A couple of items were for his own personal use…their amount to be deducted20from his personal account, The remaining items for the Governor House he said may be charged to the Government. Instructions were issued to check and make sure what may be charged to the government in the future.




When the brother of the British Emperor – Duke of Gloucester was going to visit Pakistan – the British envoy requested that he receive him at the Airport – he replied, “if I do so then the British head of state (King) would have to reciprocate when my brother would visit London”.


Once the ADC placed a Visiting Card before him…he took it and tearing it said, “Tell him not to come here before me, in the future!” the card was his brother’s and his fault..? Printed under the brothers name was . . . . . Brother of Mohammad Ali Jinnah Governor General Pakistan.

During the severe winter of Ziarat, Col. Ilahi Bukhsh offered him a pair of socks. He liked them but inquired about the price. On learning that the price was Rs.2/- he said the price was high. Col Ilahi Bukhsh replied that “the socks had been purchased from your account” to which the answer was that “even my account is a National trust…the Head of a poor country should not be so extravagant!” with that he rewrapped the socks and returned them to the Colonel.



He was impressed with the work of a particular Nurse in Ziarat and asked if he could do something for her. She said that she was from Punjab and all her family were there, she was alone in Quetta if he could have her transferred to Punjab.

He answered rather regretfully, “I am sorry…this is in the hands of the Health Ministry and not the Governor Generals jurisdiction.”




He ordered a writing table to be installed in his plane, when the File reached the Finance Ministry; the finance minister sanctioned it but sent a written note stating, “The Governor General must ask the Finance Ministry before issuing any such Order”. He gave a written apology and withdrew his previous order.




There is the incident of the Railway track barrier/gates which is well known. When Gul Hasan requested the railway track gates to be opened so that the Quaid's car may pass over unhindered. His face turned red in anger and he ordered the gates to be shut saying, “If I do not obey rules – who else will!”



This was the Pakistan of 60 years ago when Mohammed Ali Jinnah was Head of State, we have evolved and arrived at this Pa kistan of today. Today, railway track barriers/gates aside – all traffic signals of the city are switched off- both sides of the main roads are closed to traffic for an hour before the royal entourage goes by and the Head of State may announce a 5 crore donation or funding without a sanction of the Finance Ministry and even after a refusal for a sanction from the finance ministry airplanes purchased and on orders from the President and Prime Minister, scores of people are transferred – as many people’s jobs are terminated and without merit…by bending of rules and regulations as many personnel given promotion.



What to mention socks…even the kids pampers are charged to the National treasury which has brought the expenditure of the President House to 19 and the Prime ministers budget to 20 Crores. Here nephews, sisters, brother in laws hold sway over the portals of power…where Secretaries receive phone calls from, “I am the brother in law of the Sahib.”



It is a Pakistan in which the full government is present at the airport to receive the vice-president of the United States of America. In the Cabinet meetings, besides tea coffee full lunches and dinners are served. The kitchens of the President and prime Minister turn crores of rupees into smoke annually! This is the advanced Pakistan where 16 crore poor people are trying to survive!




When the Quaid-e-Azam left the Governor House on duty there was one police car with a single Inspector of police who also happened to be a non-Muslim – at the time when Gandhi had been killed and Quaid-e-Azam’s life was in danger too – in spite of that the Quaid-e-Azam went for his evening walk enjoyed the fresh air without security, but today the Heads of State do not travel even ten kilometers without modern bullet proof cars, expert security guards and well trained Commandos.



We have failed to instill equality in our country we have been unable to establish a dynamic morally upright nation and have not even made it a peaceful secure modern State.


We the 16 crore poor of Pakistan desire the moral integrity of the Pakistan 60 years ago. Relieve us of this kind of progress prosperity and prestige and restore to us the venerable Pakistan of the Quaid-e-Azam…the Pakistan of 1948.
 
Our Forum Member, honorable MBI Munshi has posted a most excellent piece "Rethinking Pakistan" - I encourage readers to examine the substance - We are in many ways "rethinking Pakistan" in this thread.
 
We already know what happens in rallies.People destroy public property.You know in Pakistan revolution this will happen.
Thugs will loot all property from rich people..not all rich people earned from illegal methods.People will destroy every damn thing in country..infrastructure will be in ruins and there you have your revolution.Revolution wont fix a damn thing.Pakistanis mindset has to chance.Leadership can't do much if people give more importance to political parties then their very own country.

its not about mind set, its simply because lack of education and awareness, and the backwardness which has made the illiterates mentally retarded and unintelligent.
 
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You are Free!, Free!:pakistan: :pakistan:

Happy Birthday Pakistan, Nation of destiny, Awaken and Rejoice, You are Free:
:pakistan::pakistan::pakistan:

Pakistan ka matlab kya?



Friday, August 14, 2009
Ayesha Ijaz Khan

Growing up in the eighties, one could not escape the slogan, "Pakistan ka matlab kya--La ilaha ilallah." If not cried out at public rallies, it was written as graffiti. Though it rhymes and jingles, the motto never made sense to me, not even when I was fourteen. La ilaha ilallah is a Muslim's creed. The idea that there is no god but Allah is an affirmation of monotheism, the Islamic concept of tawheed. How on earth could this be the definition of Pakistan? In fact, wouldn't it be shirk to say that Pakistan, like other countries run by flawed humans, represented the oneness of Allah?

On the other hand, if the idea is to present Pakistan as a state exclusively for Muslims, denying its eclectic plurality, that too runs contrary to the founding vision. Jinnah's Presidential Address on August 14, 1947, could not have been clearer, when he said: "You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed--that has nothing to do with the business of the State."

While it is true that Pakistan was created to safeguard Muslim interests, it is equally vital to understand that as a minority community in pre-Partition India, Muslims were keenly aware of discrimination and tyranny of the majority. Pakistan, thus, was to be a country where minorities would be free of persecution and prejudice. Since Muslims would be in the majority, naturally, Islamic art and architecture, language and literature, would flourish, but not by excluding non-Muslims, who had an equal right to its soil.

Although Jinnah's inaugural speech is clearest in its intent, other manifestations of the founding vision are no less significant. The Pakistani flag, for instance, is symbolic. Green, for Pakistan's Muslims; white, for its non-Muslims, side by side, as equal citizens. The generosity of spirit is reflected in reserving a quarter of the flag for non-Muslims although they numbered much less. This was to be the guiding light, the inclusiveness and respect for diversity on which Pakistan was built. Recent incidents at Gojra, Kasur, Sheikhupura and the like are thus completely at odds with Pakistan's foundation
.

According to Suroosh Irfani's essay, "Pakistan: Reclaiming the Founding Movement," written for the Middle East Institute, Pakistan's original national anthem was composed by a Hindu scholar of Indo-Persian culture. Years later, a new national anthem was adopted, the tune for which was composed by a Zoroastrian, and the lyrics later written by Hafeez Jallandhari. Such was the commitment to diversity and equality that not only was the anthem the product of contributions by a Hindu, Parsi and Muslim, respectively, but the chorus was sung to ensure an even number of men and women.

While tawheed is an important aspect of Islam, it has no relevance to running the affairs of a nation-state. Instead, the equally important Islamic concept of meezan, or balance, must set the standard for social and national mores. Meezan shuns extremes and searches the middle path. Equally, it forges a strong commitment to integrity and impartiality, the balance or scales of justice, tawazun, shares the same root. Justice must, by definition, be blind to colour, creed, ethnicity or gender, and take all equally under its fold. Laws that discriminate against women or non-Muslims therefore serve no purpose, but can do much harm and must be repealed.

Instead of focusing on Islamic form, we must concentrate on Islamic substance. We must ensure that decent healthcare and education, chances for upward mobility and freedom from poverty reach our remotest villages. But in order to do this we will need to shift our focus from superfluous matters like appropriate dress codes or whether music is haram or halal to more substantive issues like whether everyone who needs to pay taxes is paying them appropriately and whether funds collected by the state are honestly used for the benefit of its people.

Upon his death, Jinnah bequeathed much of his fortune to educational institutions: one-third to Aligarh; one-third to Islamia College, Peshawar; and one-third to Sind Madrassah, Karachi. His will was drafted in 1939, before Pakistan's boundaries were clear, but Jinnah's allocation across ethnic divides appears deliberate.

Pakistan is undoubtedly a federation and each province has its distinct heritage, language and culture, of which it is proud, but, equally, it is one country and if an individual wishes to relocate from the village to the city, or from one province to another, temporarily or permanently, there should be no impediments. Recent obstacles placed in the way of our friends from Swat were deeply regrettable and we must, in future, encourage and facilitate freedom of movement within Pakistan, enhancing inter-ethnic and inter-religious bonds.

It is our greatest challenge to build a country tolerant and reflective of Islamic principles resulting in societal benefit, and avoiding misuse of religion to advance the political motives of vigilante groups
. For this, we do not need to look to the West, and nor do we need to look to the Arabs. We are the children of a rich heritage. Poets and mystic saints like Bulle Shah taught us to soul search, and later, the Pakistan Movement and our great Quaid-e-Azam laid the foundation for an inclusive democracy. Pakistan needs to look no further than its own history to find its much-needed meezan and reclaim not just its founding purpose, but also its true potential.



The writer is a lawyer-turned-political commentator based in London. www. ayeshaijazkhan.com
 
Many Muslims don't seem to understand that in a religiously diverse country like Pakisan, you can't impose any one form of Islam on everyone. Religion has to be a private matter. The Europeans finally figured it out after centures of sectarian violence. Maybe we Muslims will not learn our lesson for centuries and will continue killing each other pointlessly. Meanwhile, the rest of the world will be building bases on the Moon and Mars.


We will learn these things the day we are not filled with a us against the world Propaganda from our Milli-Naghma's to our public speeches to the stance of our parties we will need to make trustworthy friends and move forwards.
 
Reclaiming the founding moment

Suroosh Irfani

Reclamation of Pakistan’s South Asian Muslim identity, so poignantly reflected in Jinnah’s speech, is as crucial for the survival of a democratic Pakistan as the battle for defeating the Taliban

Rooted in a democratic struggle that ended British rule in the subcontinent, there was something remarkable about Pakistan’s emergence on August 14, 1947 as a sovereign Muslim state. This was as much reflected in the founding father Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s address to Pakistan’s first Constituent Assembly as in its national anthem and flag celebrating Pakistan’s founding moment.

Jinnah’s speech on August 11, 1947 set the direction for Pakistan as a modern democratic state, where religion was a personal matter that had “nothing to do with the business of the state”, and people could creatively rework a divisive past for a promising future. At the same time, the inclusive spirit of a South Asian Muslim identity was reflected, on the one hand, in the first national anthem composed by Jagan Nath Azad, a scholar of Indo-Persian culture, and on the other hand, in a flag that celebrated Pakistan’s three percent religious minorities by giving them twenty five percent of the flag’s space — its white section.

Such eclecticism rooted in an Indo-Persian culture also prevailed in the new national anthem — first played at Karachi airport on March 30, 1950 when the Shah of Iran visited Pakistan, but formally adopted seven years later. As with the Urdu word for ‘national anthem’ (qaumi terana in Urdu, terana e qaumi in Persian), the anthem is as much in Urdu as Persian, the composition is by a Zoroastrian — Ghulam Ahmed Chagla, and the chorus giving it an ‘Indian’ musical aura comprises of almost equal numbers of female and male singers, respectively five and six. (See Ashfaque Naqvi. “A word on Jagannath Azad”, Dawn, June 27, 2004)

Indeed, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s populist slogan of “Islam, Democracy and Socialism” that gave him a landslide win in Pakistan’s first general elections held in 1970 also reflected the eclectic spirit of Pakistan’s South Asian Muslim identity. However, General Zia-ul Haq, who toppled Bhutto’s government in a military coup in 1977 and had him hanged two years later, set Pakistan on a different track that eroded the South Asian spirit of its identity. Lacking a political or social base of his own other than the army, Zia carved out a constituency for himself through a Saudi-backed politics of ‘Islamisation’ that infused Islamic conservatism in the state and society and co-opted religio-political parties, including the Jama’at-e Islami that had historically stood in opposition to Jinnah and Pakistan. Moreover, Soviet military intervention in Afghanistan in support of Kabul’s Marxist regime in 1979 helped in entrenching General Zia’s regime and turning Pakistan into “America’s most allied ally” as a Cold War frontline state.

Indeed, if the Cold War had given General Zia a shortcut to legitimacy on the international front, the Afghan jihad enabled Zia to stake Pakistan’s future on the jihadi politics in Afghanistan , giving rise to a plethora of home-grown militant outfits. Clearly, the upshot of the US-Saudi backed Afghan jihad in a regional context shaken by Shia revivalist Ayatollahs of the Iranian revolution had fateful consequences for Pakistan.

At the same time, with the virtual collapse of state education, religious schools linked with jihadi outfits rapidly expanded as breeders of a violent jihadi culture that eclipsed Pakistan’s South Asian identity while promoting an ‘Arabist shift’ — a tendency to view the Arab as the only ‘real’/pure Muslim, and then using this trope of purity as a self-righteous weapon for recasting the present in a glorified imaginary of a triumphal Arab past.

Such reasoning is reflected in a detained Pakistani suicide bomber’s interview on Geo Television on July 2, 2009. The would-be bomber justified the killing of innocent children and citizens in the ongoing spate of suicide bombings by invoking the fatwa of “a great Arab cleric”, to the effect that those who died in the bombings were not innocent victims as they did not support Taliban’s jihad.

Indeed, back in the 1990s when Pakistan helped Taliban’s rise to power in Afghanistan, Talibanic Islam became virtually synonymous with Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda through fusion with Wahhabi-Salafi radicalism, even as Peshawar became “the capital of the Islamic world”, as noted by Al Qaeda strategist Abu Mus’ab al-Suri in Brynjar Lia’s Architect of Global Jihad: The Life of Al Qaeda Strategist Abu Mus’ab al- Suri. (Hurst. London. 2007) According to al Suri, “every ongoing discussion and debate (in Peshawar) quickly spread out to the rest of the world, through audio communiqués, books, leaflets, audiocassettes, and through couriers and visitors”.

Moreover, if the founding moment of Indo-Persian culture was rooted in the 11th century publication of Kashf ul Mahjub, (The Unveiling of the Veiled), a treatise on Sufism by Lahore’s patron saint Ali Osman Hujwiri or Data Ganj Baksh as he is popularly known across the country, the publication in Peshawar of al Suri’s The Experience and Lessons of the Islamic Jihadi Revolution in 1991 might well have signalled the internationalisation of the Arabist shift in Pakistan.

At the same time, Arab and Pakistani jihadis continued to flourish in the training camps of Afghanistan and Pakistani-administered Kashmir after Zia’s death and Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, even as Pakistan briefly realised its dream of gaining ‘strategic depth’ in Afghanistan under Taliban rule.

However, all this changed following the September 11, 2001 suicide attacks on the United States, masterminded by Osama bin Laden’s Al Qaeda that Taliban had hosted in their Islamic Emirate. And although the invasion by US and NATO forces in October 2001 led to the rout of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, this further radicalised Pakistan’s Islamist groups, even as the Taliban and Al Qaeda sought refuge in Pakistan. Indeed, most Pakistanis regarded the Taliban as ‘true Muslims’ and bin Laden a ‘hero of Islam’, thereby enabling the terrorists to exploit local hospitality in Pakistan. The existential threat that Pakistan faces is not only because of the Taliban per se, but also a complicit culture largely blurring the boundaries between ‘extremist’ and ‘mainstream’ in the Islamist spectrum.

However, a sea change has occurred in Pakistan’s public perceptions of Al Qaeda and the Taliban since May 2009, after the Pakistan Army was finally compelled to crush the Taliban insurgency. Even so, military action against the Taliban would remain inconclusive without socio-economic and educational measures for winning “hearts and minds”, especially of the people displaced by recent fighting.

At the same time, such measures should aim at promoting a new political culture in sync with Pakistan’s founding moment, summed up by Jinnah’s speech to the Constituent Assembly. Indeed, reclamation of Pakistan’s South Asian Muslim identity, so poignantly reflected in Jinnah’s speech, is as crucial for the survival of a democratic Pakistan as the battle for defeating the Taliban.

Suroosh Irfani is an educationist and writer based in Lahore. (Courtesy a special edition of Viewpoints entitled “The Islamisation of Pakistan: 1979-2009.” The Middle East Institute, Washington DC)
 
Just on the sidelines ...
If we the citizens can pour some suggestions and plan to improve the situation.

I think enough has been said by all circles of society, and enough has been done to the ordinary citizen.

Guys, Please keep pouring in suggestions ....
 
Salman

I Think we are all agreed that most have identified education and access to education as the single most important feature they would like to see in a Tameer project:

With your permission, I would like to expand on this - reading "Ghost Wars", one is struck by the kinds of trajectories the Islamists and the Communists who created the Soviet Invasion and Civil war in Afghanistan, shared. Both these sets were from the provinces, both came from families that were newly well to do, and both sets were first among their family to go to university - why then the divergence??

Again, with your permission, allow me to expand on this and to invite consideration of our readers: Both the Islamists and the Communists shared a general idea, a Utopia, a better world, a more just world - both ended up killing hundreds of thousands -- Why???

One of the most amazing and dangerous ideas, University lecturers are guilty of propunding is the idea that you, a student, can change the world and because you CAN, you have a responisbility to do so. Yes, that is what I said, a most dangerous idea. Where does this lead us??

To the idea that education can be for good or ill --- therefore, it is not education but the CONTENT of the education that we must focus on.

Education, the content of it, whether you right now realize it or not, is dependent on the epistemology YOU are persuaded by: What is the nature of knowledge ????

I realize that for some this idea may be a bit puzzling or a bit on the philosophical side - let me say that it is philosophical but it has real world implications that can prevent the kinds of problems we have seen in education and the kinds of effects (see Afghan above) it has produced.

I would invite all readers to give this idea of the nature of knowledge, some serious thought, you may even wish to do research, and to contribute -- after all, Is Knowledge evolutionary?? Or is it in Stasis?? If it is in Stasis, that is to say, all we need to know is known, what is the implication on education and it's content?? On the other hand if it is evolutionary, that is to say it grows and similarly shrinks, that it changes, what implication does it have for the content of education???

Why is this idea important in the Tameer, in the Rastakhiz e Pakistan?
 
To the idea that education can be for good or ill --- therefore, it is not education but the CONTENT of the education that we must focus on.

Is Knowledge evolutionary?? Or is it in Stasis??

On the other hand if it is evolutionary, that is to say it grows and similarly shrinks, that it changes, what implication does it have for the content of education???

Muse, you have brought up a point that I took for granted as a person educated in the US. Of course education, per se, would not move Pakistan forward if the content is worthless. I could not conceive of going to the effort, and expending the resource necessary, to educate one's populace on content that was worthless to them for making their lives healthier, more secure and more intellectually fulfilling, etc. But, I do see that it would be possible, if for example, millions and millions of dollars were spent teaching young boys to memorize some content in a foreign written language, but not teaching them the language itself. So, I should not have taken for granted that any light in a darkened world is for the better.

As for the question of the evolutionary or static nature of knowledge, I was recently reminded of this when a friend of mine underwent treatment for cancer and had a PET scan (Positron Emission Tomography). When I was being educated as a physicist, 1963-1971, the idea of experimenting with and detecting positrons in our university laboratory was well beyond our capabilities. Our textbooks on nuclear physics devoted only a few short paragraphs to positrons, the anti-matter partner of the electron. Imagine the knowledge growth that has had to take place to now make routine use of this anti-matter particle as the basis of the gold standard for cancer imaging?

One could use my old nuclear physics textbook, published in 1966, to teach nuclear physics today, but a very great deal of what we know now would be missing and at least 10% of it would be flat out wrong. So, knowledge is NOT static, for sure.
 
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I think the question is not so much about static or evolving, but about obsolescence. Almost all knowedlge evolves but does it invalidate old knowledge? And to what extent?

I think we also need to differentiate between the levels of education and the subjects involved. Primary and high school level education is far more static than university level specialized training.

On a broad level, I would say that subjects like history, literature, math, languages, civics, etc. are more immune to change. There are a few advances or revisions but old knowledge remains largely relevant.

Even basic science, in most cases, remains relevant. Even in the developed countries, students still learn Newtonian physics well into high school. Advanced concepts like relativity and quantum mechanics are introduced at later levels. You can learn a lot of biology from cell physiology without knowing the finer mechanisms of DNA/RNA manipulation.

I assume when we talk about mass education in Pakistan, we are talking about the school level, not university. I know we need world class universities and high tech research institutions also, but first let's educate the kids at the primary and high school levels.

For that I agree with others that we need three things:
- decent level of competence in history, languages, civics, math and basic sciences.
- all education in Urdu to promote national unity.
- either eliminate religious studies, or include better understanding of other religions and diversity within Islam.
 
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I am sure I'm going to get a lot of flak for saying what I'm going to say, but if nobody says what needs to be said only because it might hurt their countrymen, the country will never be on the right path.

The problem lies in the ideology that the nation currently calls it's own. We want to become champion of the Muslim world, but do we look around what's happening in Pakistan before wanting to conquer the world? We need to step out of delusion & smell the coffee, we are topping the lists of failed states, there's has to be good reason why.

We have been so blinded by our hatred that we have stopped caring for our own land & people. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that more Pakistanis have been killed by Pakistanis themselves rather than Indians, Israelis or Americans. Yet we only see them as the enemy.

I am a firm believer in power & it's absolutely necessary that Pakistan has a strong military to protect itself, but instead of creating a force to stablise Pakistan & protect it's people, the Army has become an instrument of power & by indulging in an arms race with India, we are playing a match that we will always lose.

If you want to build Pakistan, we must change the ideology of it's people, our people. The state that the country is in at the moment, all I can see at the end of the tunnel is pain & agony.

We need to believe in ourselves. That's the first step of the ladder. Look around us, we have to perfect models of modern success - India & China. If they can, we can too. But their success is not by luck, they believe in their country & in themselves. How many Pakistanis do it? I worked with Indians & Chinese (and gotten along with them equally well), and the level of pride that they have in their countries & in their abilities is what I think our country men so desperately lack. They are hard working & smart people, no doubt, but then so are we.

I've been to conferences in both, China & India, and everytime I go to such a gathering, the level of enthusiasm is amazing, a similar event in Pakistan would have people dissing the country & blaming our problems on the Indians, Americans & Jews. This mindset has to change. But instead of that happening, all I see is the current generation getting more aggressive & paranoid. I see nutheads like Zaid Hamid being praised to no end in this forum, people believing all kinds of laughable conspiracy theories & believing everything & anything that gets the blame off our chests.

What worries me more, is that how some of us have started choosing sides at the cost of the nation. Instead of feeling proud of being Pakistanis, it seems that we're more proud of being China's friends. I have seen people saying in this forum that Chinese navy should be deployed on Gwadar to patrol our seas, only to deter the Indians. As if it makes sense, sell our sovereignty to China in order to save the nation from India. Some proposing that we ask China for funds to buy more weapons, and allowing China more presence on our territory & waters.

Being afraid of one devil, we're quietly slipping into the lap of another. I mean no disrespect to our chinese friends, we're grateful to all their vetoes & support, but it would not mean that we present them our country on a silver platter as a token of appreciation. Will you find any Indian or Chinese agreeing to have another country's forces on their territory?

Already, our small & middle level industries are being devastated by the onslought of Chinese goods, and having seen it for myself, I can say that it is only a matter of a few years before the surviving industries die a painful death.

We can say what we want to, but the fact is that we're languising at the bottom & there are no two ways to look at it. As much as we want to match India & grow like China, the ground realities remain that we are far away from realising that. India for all it's flaws will be the second largest economy in the world in a few decades, China will be even bigger. Where would we stand? What are we doing about it? These are the questions we need to ask.

There is no honour in asking the world to provide us with loans to keep the country running, I fail to understand why our people fail to see it with the horror & urgency that is required. It's high time that we understand the real problems, it's now or never.
 
AKHAider

many great ideas, particularly the one about ideology -- should Pakistan have an ideology to which it is tied to? Why should Pakistan have a particular ideology? What purpose is served by it? Is it a worthy purpose? Should young minds be forced into a particular unworkable ideology or be free of it altogether?

You have suggested that China and India have succeeded so can Pakistan - Is Pakistan ready to do what China and India have done? Both China and India shelved "ideology" in favor of pragmatism, in favor of that which works. This is symbolized in Dung Shiao Ping's famous saying "what does it matter if the cat is black or white so long as it catches mice".

Pakistan's perrenial weakness are it's dwarf economy and fractured politics based on personality - how shall we deal with these in the light of ideology or no ideology?
 
Alright, Education still tops the list ...
and what more we can add to the list is that it should be education with superb content.

We can not just implement some great system, as it will come in gradually
so the concept of evolution or self improvement is paramount.

As for the ideology, I think we can look at education ( primary / secondary / professional) as training exercise.

We can decide that what should a pakistani 10 year old, 15 year old, and 20 year old should be like .. and then implement a system that gets us there.

How about that ?

Now, some one made a comment about religion, and I agree that practicing religion is one's own personal matter. No one has the right to call on some one, or to malign a group for that matter.

However I also think that it is the duty of the state to ensure the following

1. Cause for or facilitate the practice of religion ( which ever that may be)
2. Ensure freedom of practice of religion.

We need to institutionalize our religious departments.
That causes the revision of agenda for the ministry of religions affairs and the
Aukaf department in particular.

We can also link our religious Calendar to the saudi, and get rid of that mockery.

The Madrassa system needs to be institutionalized and managed just like any other education system.

The beef is not with the madrassa system, problem is with the ill trained and incompetent teachers which plague both the madrassa and the orthodox system of education.

Those are just my views, We can discuss this further to streamline the approach.
 
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