Plan to restore Pakistan - Lets have suggestions to restore our pride

[AKHaider]

If we're to start out, then doing away with our obsession with India, Israel & US would be a good way to go at it.

Looking inside is what we need at the moment. The Pakistani leadership has failed on many levels for the past many decades. The terrorism that we face today was created by us, as a strategic decision. We have now got so entangled in the net that we ourselves wove that it is getting tougher & tougher to get out.

I also find this excitement about creating muslim unity & universal brotherhood quite naive. I must spell out one very important fact to you - nobody gives a damn about Pakistan. Not Saudi Arabia, not Iran, not UAE and certainly not the US. In the end, every nation has to fend for itself. They are all happy with their successes & occupied with their problems, they don't give two hoots to brotherhood & unity. I learnt this the hard way by my experiences in the middle east & the power lobbies in the US.

Economic & social development is the only way out. Military power (which is an oxymoron in our case, if you think about it) will not improve our standing in the world, nor would it safeguard the borders of the nation unless you back that with a solid economy & robust society. Unfortunately, we lack both.

To romp up our education system, we need money, money that we don't have & whatver we get from the loans go off to our military to buy some new toys to play with. We need to make a trade off. A squadron or two of F-16s will not bother the Indian military even a tiny little bit, but an economically strong, industrialized & prosperous Pakistan will command respect from even the most hardcore Indian nationalist.

Question is, how many of our people will agree to this trade off?

 

[AKHaider]

AKHAider

many great ideas, particularly the one about ideology -- should Pakistan have an ideology to which it is tied to? Why should Pakistan have a particular ideology? What purpose is served by it? Is it a worthy purpose? Should young minds be forced into a particular unworkable ideology or be free of it altogether?

You have suggested that China and India have succeeded so can Pakistan - Is Pakistan ready to do what China and India have done? Both China and India shelved "ideology" in favor of pragmatism, in favor of that which works. This is symbolized in Dung Shiao Ping's famous saying "what does it matter if the cat is black or white so long as it catches mice".

Pakistan's perrenial weakness are it's dwarf economy and fractured politics based on personality - how shall we deal with these in the light of ideology or no ideology?

Young minds cannot be forced, they can only be destroyed, this is what is happening in today's Pakistan. Young minds should be free to think, ponder & make up their own perceptions instead of a maulvi blaring into their ears, abuse for Hindus, Jews & Christians.

China certainly did not shelve it's 'ideology', if you mean they quashed their own culture, then yes. India still has a very strong ideology & both have a very, very focused population. I say this because I've seen it.

What drives China is their ideology & India, their culture. Pakistan has a unclear ideology & unclear culture. Has our leadership tried to solve the riddle for us, ever?

The current focus should be on developing an ideology, one that smells of freedom. Culture can be rebuilt around that.

 

[muse]

Akhaider

Perhaps you and I are not referring to the same thing when we speak of ideology :

China certainly did not shelve it's 'ideology', if you mean they quashed their own culture, then yes. India still has a very strong ideology & both have a very, very focused population. I say this because I've seen it.

What drives China is their ideology & India, their culture. Pakistan has a unclear ideology & unclear culture. Has our leadership tried to solve the riddle for us, ever?

The current focus should be on developing an ideology, one that smells of freedom. Culture can be rebuilt around that.

China most certainly shelved Maoist socialism - and this great change led to the China we see now - and in reversing Maoist socialism, China has rediscovered it's great history and even greater CULTURE.

India too, has shelved Nehruvian Socialist ideals, this change unleashed the entrepreneurial energy of the Indian nation - India was never, NEVER, ever, in it's multiple histories, a poor country -

These two nations shelved Utopian ideologies - they rediscovered their historical heritage and culture.

When you refer to ideology in India, I think, I may be wrong, but I think you are referring to a revitalized sense of Nationalism.

I had not meant ideology in the sense of nationalism, but rather ideologies based on Utopian ideals that brought only misery and poverty to these nations.

Pakistan too, must ponder, whether it will continue to be a hostage to ideas whose time has passed, or will it face reality with determination to succeed. The "TRADITIONAL" culture is the stead Pakistan will read into the future, it must shed the radical ideology which imprisons it's people and condemns them to poverty and radicalism.

I hope I have offered you a more clear idea of what I meant by "ideology".

 

[Sinnerman108]

Akhaider

Perhaps you and I are not referring to the same thing when we speak of ideology :



China most certainly shelved Maoist socialism - and this great change led to the China we see now - and in reversing Maoist socialism, China has rediscovered it's great history and even greater CULTURE.

India too, has shelved Nehruvian Socialist ideals, this change unleashed the entrepreneurial energy of the Indian nation - India was never, NEVER, ever, in it's multiple histories, a poor country -

These two nations shelved Utopian ideologies - they rediscovered their historical heritage and culture.

When you refer to ideology in India, I think, I may be wrong, but I think you are referring to a revitalized sense of Nationalism.

I had not meant ideology in the sense of nationalism, but rather ideologies based on Utopian ideals that brought only misery and poverty to these nations.

Pakistan too, must ponder, whether it will continue to be a hostage to ideas whose time has passed, or will it face reality with determination to succeed. The "TRADITIONAL" culture is the stead Pakistan will read into the future, it must shed the radical ideology which imprisons it's people and condemns them to poverty and radicalism.

I hope I have offered you a more clear idea of what I meant by "ideology".

There is no doubt in my mind as far as the importance and pivotal nature of ideology goes.

Without a firm ground, and an absolute direction no one can get no where.

What you say say about brotherhood and the lack of interest from the rest of the world is absolutely right in the current frame of reference.

For the near future the state of affairs will remain the same.
However I also believe that tomorrow any strong enough nation can move the goal post. That will change the perspective altogether.

I will suggest that my fellows get hold of the documentary by BBC called " Baby its cold outside", Its a 3 part documentary and very revealing about current day situation.

Now as far as comments about China shelving socialism goes, and India shelving Nehru's ideas, I will not go as far as calling that shelving.

I think it is more appropriate to call it evolution, or self correction of a base system.

I also think that we can do the same. We can start with a basic system, and then improve / correct and mold it as we go along.

What does the house think about that ?

 

[Sinnerman108]

At this point I will request the readers of the post to please contribute more
to the cause in the form of suggestions.

At present we have 1,581 views and only 78 posts !!

I will also request the readers to please invite others and spread the word.
The more volunteers we can have the easier the job will be.

 

[Developereo]

I think the key ingredient in China and India's success has been political stability.

Nobody, not even expat Pakistanis, will invest a dime in Pakistan until there is rule of law, property rights, and a stable government.

Even education is not necessary for economic growth, since much of China's workforce is unskilled factory labor.

All of our schemes and investments in education, ideology whatever will fall apart unless we have a stable government. It doesn't matter if it is military (China) or democratic (India), but it has to be stable and strong enough to guarantee rule of law throughout the country.

Also, as regards India/Israel/US, we want to be friends eventually but we cannot, dare not, abandon our guard against them. Zaid Hamid tends to exaggerate, but there is no doubt that these countries mean us harm and are engaged in subversive activities within Pakistan. It would be dangerously naive to dismiss the threat.

Ordinary citizens need to focus on domestic policy and we can let the ISI and our military worry about the external threats. However, they must have our full support at all times. We owe them that much to maintain their morale.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Interesting thoughts ....

Can any one say some thing about the form of government ?

Democracy is not a form of government, it is only an instrument of choice ...

I am thinking about the form of running government services.

Should we stick with the current bureaucratic setup, or shall we think of some thing that suites us ?

 

[Developereo]

Democracy is not a form of government, it is only an instrument of choice ...

The key concept of democracy is accountability.

I think I am probably in a minority here in that I have no problem with a benign dictatorship. Pakistan needs some reforms which simply are not going to happen with our current crop of civilian politicians.

For better or for worse, we need a strongman. If a visionary civilian statesman comes along instead, wonderful, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[Tango25]

Get rid of all the terrorist groups including the Kashmir-obsessed ones, focus on development, education.

 

[AKHaider]

Akhaider

Perhaps you and I are not referring to the same thing when we speak of ideology :



China most certainly shelved Maoist socialism - and this great change led to the China we see now - and in reversing Maoist socialism, China has rediscovered it's great history and even greater CULTURE.

India too, has shelved Nehruvian Socialist ideals, this change unleashed the entrepreneurial energy of the Indian nation - India was never, NEVER, ever, in it's multiple histories, a poor country -

These two nations shelved Utopian ideologies - they rediscovered their historical heritage and culture.

When you refer to ideology in India, I think, I may be wrong, but I think you are referring to a revitalized sense of Nationalism.

I had not meant ideology in the sense of nationalism, but rather ideologies based on Utopian ideals that brought only misery and poverty to these nations.

Pakistan too, must ponder, whether it will continue to be a hostage to ideas whose time has passed, or will it face reality with determination to succeed. The "TRADITIONAL" culture is the stead Pakistan will read into the future, it must shed the radical ideology which imprisons it's people and condemns them to poverty and radicalism.

I hope I have offered you a more clear idea of what I meant by "ideology".

China's culture has been drastically subdued by the decades of communist rule and India was never going to stick to it's Nehruvian principles. The reason behind India & China's rise is the aspirations of their people, to see their countries back to where they belong.

Indians & Chinese are fast developing a supremacist attitude as they see their countries rising, they know their standing in the history & they want to be back on top, really, really bad.

These countries will no doubt rule the world in the next few decades as their populations will strive hard to achieve what is rightfully theirs.

Pakistan cannot & must not miss this chance. We can use their momentum to propel our own economy.

But this will come at a cost, a cost that I doubt our people are willing to pay.

I see that we Pakistanis too have a supremacist attitude vis a vis Indians, but what ground is this belief based upon? Islam ruled India for a thousand years & yet India is a Hindu majority country. Speaks volumes.

I'll tell you about an experience that I had with a senior Pakistani diplomat. We were discussing about the Pakistani economy & the GWOT in Afghanistan, and this gentleman was constantly deviating to bring India & Israel into the fray. In the end, he ended up talking about how Islam ruled the sub-continent for a thousand years & how Pakistan would eventually restore this piece of history. Interestingly, when I asked him how we could win a war with India, his answer was innocently simple, "We are muslims", he said. If such people are going to run the country, and make no mistakes, they are not in shortage, Pakistan is doomed.

Nations can be built on the basis of religion but they cannot survive on that basis alone. Nationalism is what drives a nation's success.

Our countrymen seem more worried about Muslims in other countries than their own compatriots. Why should we worry about Indian muslims? If you went to an Indian muslim & asked for his opinion about Pakistan, it would come as a shock to you. They are least bothered about what goes on in Pakistan & blame us for the mistreatment that they have had to face from the Hindu population. It came as a surprise to me too, but it also serves as an example that we ought to learn from. Instead of claiming to be champions of Islam while we go to the world bank to request more loans, we'd do better if we first & foremost focused on the country's well being & save our trumpet for later.

Jmtc

 

[Sinnerman108]

So, what we are discussing here is crucial
we need objectives to survive
and these by no means have to be carved out in stone
the example of China and India prove that our goals can evolve just like our
approach to get to the goals can evolve.

If the goals are purely religious, or a mix of political , or political alone ?

I would suggest that the memeber contribute what the ideal goals of pakistan should be ?

 

[Fracker]

I would suggest that the memeber contribute what the ideal goals of pakistan should be ?

Should be? I think it is pretty clear to whole world that what was the reason to create pakistan, and what they want to achieve... it is just not clear to us, what is our goal? Any new goal will divide pakistani more!! We only need step to achieve it.

 

[Reddy]

My 2 cents of advice on making pakistan great. Some of the points may not be liked by some members.

1. Bring drastic land reforms ( difficult but very necessary)
2. Close full time madressah's ( religious education can be taught as a subject in regular school)
3. Reduce the influence of Mullah's / Maulvi's - They have to be govt. approved like in Saudi Arabia. ( choose people with right education and outlook, no to producing jihadi's)
4. Democracy from grass roots - starting from villages eg. Panchayati Raj
5. Free Education to all kids - boys and girls ( girls should be taught for free until Degree )
6.Free Trade with India, China , Afghanistan
7. Take less burden of Muslim ummah and bother more about pakistan and pakistani's

 

[Developereo]

My 2 cents of advice on making pakistan great. Some of the points may not be liked by some members.

Thanks for your excellent suggestions!

1. Bring drastic land reforms ( difficult but very necessary)

Couldn't agree more. India was smart to do this early on. But all of our politcians and generals eat from this trough, so it's going to be a tough one.

2. Close full time madressah's ( religious education can be taught as a subject in regular school)

The (charitable) madressas sprung up because the public school system is abysmal. More funding and accountability from public schools would obviate the need for madressas.

3. Reduce the influence of Mullah's / Maulvi's - They have to be govt. approved like in Saudi Arabia. ( choose people with right education and outlook, no to producing jihadi's)

Agree. I would go one level more and require ongoing recertification of mullahs to make sure they stay on the straight and narrow. Unfortunately, Gulf money is the source of a lot of our problems; it is funding many of the extremist elements.

4. Democracy from grass roots - starting from villages eg. Panchayati Raj

Excellent idea. Education and the media would help here. Also, since religion is a big part of rural life, the mullahs could actually help here, if they could be relied upon to be impartial.

5. Free Education to all kids - boys and girls ( girls should be taught for free until Degree )

Free and mandatory. With accountability for educators.

6.Free Trade with India, China , Afghanistan

I would hold off on India for now. Sorry, but there is too much mistrust and behind-the-scenes monkeying by both India and Pakistan in each other's affairs. And I would put Iran at the top of our list.

7. Take less burden of Muslim ummah and bother more about pakistan and pakistani's

Pakistan seems to suffer from Islam-on-the-brain. Just like the Americans consider themselves the defender of democracy, many Pakistanis consider us to be the saviors of Islam. I fully accept and am pround of our Islamic heritage, but we have far too many internal problems to be saving anybody else. Also, we can serve Islam best by being strong and self-sufficient economically and culturally (as well as militarily).

 

[Chandbhai]

Assalam o Alikum Pakistan,

Well, everyone knows that the present system of Pakistan is declining its impact in the world of progress. This is my first post to any topic, so I think that i will fully acknowledge my ideas here.

Restoration of pride, in front of whom?

Which pride ro be restored?

If we are talking about the system of Muhammad (PBUH) and Sahaba karam, then a very very major step is to be taken by every single muslim. Dont ever consider pride in terms of Developments, Science, Technology, Megastructures etc. Pride, to us, means the wisdom of Islam, the teachings of our Holy Prophet, the Rule of Almighty Allah. In order to restore our pride, we first have to correct ourselves, then our neighbours, then our society, and then the Nation.

Praying Namaz 5 times a day is not Islam. Islam is the way of liiving life. It starts when we woke up, and continues till we sleep and then woke.

The problem is that many few (not me) realize its importance and apply in thier daily life. The day every individual of Pakistan apply Islam in its life, that day will be the first day of the Progress of our country.

Regards

Chandbhai