Pakistan will launch a two-seater version of JF-17 - Induction of JF-17B in 2017

[SQ8]

I still have one question and i have not got any satisfactory reply to it.

What is the expected number of JF-17B? Just 6? that wont make any sense at all.

AND

If the number is higher, like 24/36 planes, will these be in addition to the 150 planes distributed over three blocks or will these be included in the same 50?

I had some discussion with Sir @araz this but perhaps i was not able to explain my question and then i thought it wont be nice to keep asking the same thing over and over again. Now i guess i have found more suitable words of this and that is why i am asking it again.

Question is NOT that whether the B's will be Blk 2 or Blk 3 configuration but the question is, a) what is the expected numbers and b) will these numbers be in addition to 150 planned planes in three blocks or included in the same 150.

They are not sure yet. Depends on flight performance and evaluation. It is possible that B models could run into greater squadron numbers depending on mix.

Basically, the advantage of being the manufacturer and customer mean you can monitor orders and change the mix as and when you wish.

 

[WarFariX]

The main reason of developing JF-17B is because export orders are also seeking for dual seater especially poor nations so that they can use it a LIFT platform . The question you asked is what is going on everywhere . Given PAF's current requirement of thunder is 150 , i think more Block 3 will be dual seaters. Could be also possible that thinders currently in CSS will be shifted to combat squadrons and replaced by dual seaters.
I have a solid feeling that KSA is intending to place huge order of block 3 to replace its large fleet of aging fighter. So they will definitely ask for dual seater. Or you can say that dual seater idea was proposed more on the requests of customers. JF-17B is intended as export fighter. How ironic , yesterday 2nd TX advanced trainer conducted first flight. And according to Zarvan bhai that on 29 april , jf17b will conduct first flight

 

[WarFariX]

Honestly, but I don't think span will be larger ... by the way; still no images ??? WHY ??? Are all these spotters currently in Dalian ?

span is larger due to availablity of spine to compensate the fuel space lost to dual seat. Official AVIC site is proof , they say its 0.765 m larger

 

[HRK]

Question is NOT that whether the B's will be Blk 2 or Blk 3 configuration but the question is, a) what is the expected numbers and b) will these numbers be in addition to 150 planned planes in three blocks or included in the same 150.

it seems JF-17B will be additional to the current fleet of 50 blk-I + 50 blk-II & number might grow as JF-17B will also be used as LIFT platform as stated by ACM in an interview in 2015

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

it seems JF-17B will be additional to the current fleet of 50 blk-I + 50 blk-II & number might grow as JF-17B will also be used as LIFT platform as stated by ACM in an interview in 2015
View attachment 392974

Interesting aspect of ACM Aman's statement was that he didn't want afterburning engines on trainers (operational costs). So what happens if there are advanced trainers with non-afterburning engines - e.g. Textron Scorpion, Aero L-159, etc?

 

[HRK]

Interesting aspect of ACM Aman's statement was that he didn't want afterburning engines on trainers (operational costs). So what happens if there are advanced trainers with non-afterburning engines - e.g. Textron Scorpion, Aero L-159, etc?

I think the acquisition & maintenance cost will be more or less equivalent to JF-17B ... so why spend on foreign system while the in-house solution which will be more relevant in terms of PAF main fighting fleet will be available ....

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think the acquisition & maintenance cost will be more or less equivalent to JF-17B ... so why spend on foreign system while the in-house solution which will be more relevant in terms of PAF main fighting fleet will be available ....

Honestly, I suspect the LIFT platforms (e.g. T-50) were looked at as possible successors to the K-8 in the FCU role.

When it comes to converting pilots to any of the platforms, including F-7P/PG, they have twin-seat OCU units.

So conversion to a platform wasn't the issue, but rather, improving the FCU side such that fighter graduates are fully prepared for converting to the JF-17 and F-16.

But the people in FCU are coming from basic trainers - so do you want to put them on JF-17Bs right away, or do you want a bridge platform? The T-50 and L-15 were deemed to be overkill, but an upgraded K-8 or L-159 might better do the job.

 

[Star Expedition]

Not good enough.
Even We can produce 1000 , Indian Air Force will buy 2000 from the U.S., Russia, France...

 

[HRK]

But the people in FCU are coming from basic trainers - so do you want to put them on JF-17Bs right away, or do you want a bridge platform? The T-50 and L-15 were deemed to be overkill, but an upgraded K-8 or L-159 might better do the job.

ideally what you suggest make more sense but again 'empty pockets' .... so new rookies after completing their basic training plus 30-50 hours of JF-17 simulator training plus flight training under the supervision of Experienced pilots should mitigate the risk factor ....

 

[SQ8]

Interesting aspect of ACM Aman's statement was that he didn't want afterburning engines on trainers (operational costs). So what happens if there are advanced trainers with non-afterburning engines - e.g. Textron Scorpion, Aero L-159, etc?

Im assuming What he wanted to emphasize was both operational and procurement costs vis a vis additional eda F-16s.

The twin seat JF-17 would provide the LIFT everyone is looking for

 

[khanasifm]

The point is jf-17be can be use a full fights bombs as well as lift / trainer when needed for a course in an ocu sqn

 

[Arsalan]

The number of JF-17Bs under production today are for testing, the PAF hasn't yet announced how many it intends to buy. In 2015, ACM Sohail Aman did hint that the JF-17B would be used in a training role, but the jury is out on how many will be bought or for what purpose.

Bhai
You give me much more credit than I deserve.
I suspect the role of the twin seater will evolve once we have it in Pakistan and assessed by PAF. I suspect current requirement is 20-30 units at a max. However as strategy evolves and new roles/capabilities are discovered numbers may well vary with that. Otherwise PAF might just have a token few and offer the rest to foreign buyers. This is my guess but I could be totally wrong.
A

No janab!!
It have always been a pleasure discussing various issues and developments with you. I remember the time when i joined the forum!

So again, whatever number PAF decides upon inducting finally, it is likely to be IN ADDITION to the 150 planes that are originally planed and therefore take the number of total JF17 above 150. I hope this is case.

They are not sure yet. Depends on flight performance and evaluation. It is possible that B models could run into greater squadron numbers depending on mix.

Basically, the advantage of being the manufacturer and customer mean you can monitor orders and change the mix as and when you wish.

Makes sense. After blk-II we start producing 50 Blk-III and if the B variant is a hit we can add a few in Blk-III's 50 planes or may be add to it.

IN short, what i am trying to evaluate is the total number o JF17 possible/likely. We know that 150 are planned in three blocks. The real question is that the B variant will be included in these 150 of will there be 150 single seat variants and the B variants will be in addition to these 150 planes. Currently PAF says they have a requirement of 150 JF17 planes but what is not clear is the future of B variant. Developed to exploit export potential, i just hope that PAF opts to induct these in a decent number, 36 planes i would say and make sure that these 36 are in addition to 150 planes planed in three blocks. (Even that gives us a total strength of 300-350 planes which is too low for our needs (considering that the number of fifth gen planes might not go above 60-72 planes at BEST.

There must be some post JF17 plans other than the 5th gen to fill in the numbers with a more than decent platform.

 

[Rafael]

dafeng cao‏ @xinfengcao 52m52 minutes ago



dafeng cao Retweeted dafeng cao

JF-17B is going to make its first flight in a few days.

https://twitter.com/xinfengcao

 

[WarFariX]

no afterburner whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat [emoji46] [emoji46] [emoji46] [emoji50] [emoji50] [emoji50] [emoji50] [emoji50] itna intezar kis cheez ka kia phir [emoji24] [emoji24]

 

[CriticalThought]

no afterburner whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat [emoji46] [emoji46] [emoji46] [emoji50] [emoji50] [emoji50] [emoji50] [emoji50] itna intezar kis cheez ka kia phir [emoji24] [emoji24]

I doubt it has an engine other than RD-93. What the ACM is saying is that the options on the market are too expensive because they are all afterburning jets. But since JF-17 is our own baby it shouldn't be so costly. That's my interpretation at least.