Pakistan will launch a two-seater version of JF-17 - Induction of JF-17B in 2017

[khanasifm]

per paf history if i remember correctly decision to go for dual seater initially was overtaken by building sim via Spanish indra and paf, perhaps (i am guessing) beause initially jf was pulling all experienced pilots from other sqn, initially from f16 and rose mirages and later PGs and Ps to form jf sqn, but eventually pilots from no 1 sqn will be going directly to jf as there will be no other route so with about 200 (academy)+ 60 or 70 at no 1 sqn i.e 270 hours of total experience

Further international user would also like it, sim usually are cheaper to operate but may cost equivalent to 2 or 3 aircraft, for dual seater as long as there in no impact on range (which seems to be the case) and no impact on external load (TBD?) should be fine and looks like the additional 14 blk 2 might be all dual seaters


One question i have is dual launcher for sd-10 was shown on dual seater but dual wing span is >= 1 meter than current single seater does that means dual rails only option on dual seater or both?

Lot of guessing

 

[Arsalan]

In my humble opinion since the Block 3 has not even been finalized the current configuration will be block 2 + with a few changes in keeping with what has been envisaged in block 3.We may yet go down the route of an upgrade once the plans for block 3 are consolidated and sealed.
A

Sir je my actually question was do you think that the two seat variants will be in addition to the 50 planes planned for Block III (thus taking the total number over 150) or will it be like the Block III 50 planes will have some twin seat planes and other single seat ones? I am not sure if we are actually going to close this like after making 6 twin seat jets only.

Also not sure if closing down the project after 150 planes (plus the export orders) will be a wise move. We are seriously behind in numbers as well and need to close that gap as much as possible.

 

[araz]

Sir je my actually question was do you think that the two seat variants will be in addition to the 50 planes planned for Block III (thus taking the total number over 150) or will it be like the Block III 50 planes will have some twin seat planes and other single seat ones? I am not sure if we are actually going to close this like after making 6 twin seat jets only.

Also not sure if closing down the project after 150 planes (plus the export orders) will be a wise move. We are seriously behind in numbers as well and need to close that gap as much as possible.

In short at least I dont know the answer to that one. The configuration one can guess at, and in my humble opinion will be 2+ for reasons which I have elucidated unless the Bl. 3 configuration has been decided which does not appear to be the case.
A

 

[CriticalThought]

In short at least I dont know the answer to that one. The configuration one can guess at, and in my humble opinion will be 2+ for reasons which I have elucidated unless the Bl. 3 configuration has been decided which does not appear to be the case.
A

PAF wants to replace deltas with deltas. It would be cool if they slapped deltas onto JF-17 and updated the FBW. Disclaimer: BIG time daydreaming.

 

[araz]

PAF wants to replace deltas with deltas. It would be cool if they slapped deltas onto JF-17 and updated the FBW. Disclaimer: BIG time daydreaming.

If you want to dream big think of bhai tejas flying at mach 7, 26000 miles round the earth with one tank full.And anywhere there is trouble Amitabh Bachan jumps down from bhai Tejas and beats the baddies into a pulp. JFT is a second generation plane that rides on a thela.. But jokes aside are you really serious about Delta?
A

 

[WarFariX]

per paf history if i remember correctly decision to go for dual seater initially was overtaken by building sim via Spanish indra and paf, perhaps (i am guessing) beause initially jf was pulling all experienced pilots from other sqn, initially from f16 and rose mirages and later PGs and Ps to form jf sqn, but eventually pilots from no 1 sqn will be going directly to jf as there will be no other route so with about 200 (academy)+ 60 or 70 at no 1 sqn i.e 270 hours of total experience

Further international user would also like it, sim usually are cheaper to operate but may cost equivalent to 2 or 3 aircraft, for dual seater as long as there in no impact on range (which seems to be the case) and no impact on external load (TBD?) should be fine and looks like the additional 14 blk 2 might be all dual seaters


One question i have is dual launcher for sd-10 was shown on dual seater but dual wing span is >= 1 meter than current single seater does that means dual rails only option on dual seater or both?

Lot of guessing

it will be on block 3 too as it was PAF's initial planning to get dual rails on standard Thunder. Who knows , maybe block 3 will also have larger wingspan and i hope it does

 

[WarFariX]

If you want to dream big think of bhai tejas flying at mach 7, 26000 miles round the earth with one tank full.And anywhere there is trouble Amitabh Bachan jumps down from bhai Tejas and beats the baddies into a pulp. JFT is a second generation plane that rides on a thela.. But jokes aside are you really serious about Delta?
A

well you see , delta idea isnt bad but its too costly , off the shelf options are better here. i have one question , @araz i once read somewhere that Pure deltas (without canards) and deltas with canards are bit different in functions and altitude profiles. Is it true? what are the differences between them ? can we call J-10 as pure delta as Mirages?

 

[WarFariX]

Waiting for JF-17B like a
View attachment 390141

ziada din nai hain ab bhai

 

[CriticalThought]

If you want to dream big think of bhai tejas flying at mach 7, 26000 miles round the earth with one tank full.And anywhere there is trouble Amitabh Bachan jumps down from bhai Tejas and beats the baddies into a pulp. JFT is a second generation plane that rides on a thela.. But jokes aside are you really serious about Delta?
A

Naaaaah just dreaming. But on a serious note, there are two major wing configurations on front line 4th gen fighters today: tapered and Delta or some modification thereof. Each has its own pros and cons and is suitable for particular mission profiles. There is a reason why PAF doesn't want to give up on its Mirages so easily.

Now, given what we have learnt from JF-17, we should be able to apply it towards creating a Delta wing aircraft. And so to your question of what happens after Block 3, I want our aerospace industry to mature to such an extent that we are able to create a Delta aircraft to replace the mirages as a side project, without affecting fifth gen plans. Dreaming big here....

well you see , delta idea isnt bad but its too costly , off the shelf options are better here. i have one question , @araz i once read somewhere that Pure deltas (without canards) and deltas with canards are bit different in functions and altitude profiles. Is it true? what are the differences between them ? can we call J-10 as pure delta as Mirages?

I researched this on the internet a while ago and this is what I learnt. Delta wings provide larger surface area, hence provide better lift. Unfortunately, they bleed energy in low altitude high speed turns because the larger surface area creates more drag. That is where Delta canards come into play. They provide further upthrust, thus improving high angle of attack maneuvers, such as turns. Unfortunately, the mess up the airflow on the main wing as well. So they need to be added after careful analysis.

My understanding of PAF Mirages, and please correct me if I am wrong here, is that they are meant for low altitude ground hugging missions to avoid enemy radars and deliver the Raads. Delta wings are excellent in this role and that is why the phrase 'deltas should be replaced with deltas'. NOTE: personal views that could be completely wrong. Please feel free to correct me.

 

[Deino]

Still no news on the JF-17B ???

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Work is silently going on.
wait some more, its still first quarter of 2017.

 

[Arsalan]

Still no news on the JF-17B ???

Sir it was scheduled to be launched after second quarter i think. That will be sometime AFTER JULY. I would say August or around August.

 

[Deino]

Sir it was scheduled to be launched after second quarter i think. That will be sometime AFTER JULY. I would say August or around August.

Upps ... I thought it was always said to be unveiled in April/May,

Thanks a lot.

Deino

and another Uppss.... just found !

https://twitter.com/x/status/855329702260506624

 

[CriticalThought]

Upps ... I thought it was always said to be unveiled in April/May,

Thanks a lot.

Deino

and another Uppss.... just found !

https://twitter.com/x/status/855329702260506624

The model in your pic doesn't seem to exhibit any of the design updates that were hinted by @messiach. We'll have to wait and see...

 

[WarFariX]

Still no news on the JF-17B ???

Its more like no press released yet