Pakistan will launch a two-seater version of JF-17 - Induction of JF-17B in 2017

[Thorough Pro]

What exactly are you talking about? meaning nothing that you wrote, makes sense.

I doubt weight reduction would be the reason because they had to increase the tail size just to accommodate the FBW system. The change in tail size will change the aerodynamic characteristics of the plane and the cost vs benefit of making this change for the sole purpose of obtaining weight reduction/internal volume doesn't make sense. Also, historically FBW was introduced when instable designs were first created because the aircraft could not be handled without it. Finally, given that market requirements are one reason for JF-17B, it wouldn't surprise me if instability and FBW are introduced for the sake of technological advancement and ticking off a buyer checklist. Anyway, I could be wrong, so let's wait and see. Hopefully not too long before we see the video of first flight. And they may take the staggered approach of gaining operational experience with FBW and then introducing instability for Block 3

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I have zero information on this but this would make a lot of sense. Why waste the R&D we are doing for jf17B. Better to have a JF17B and a single seater JF17B, as opposed to a JF17A and a twinseater JF17A

Absolutely. These structural changes with the AESA radar and updated internals would be a very significant upgrade. Might be stretching hopes here, but a new engine from the Block-III might be nice too.

 

[MastanKhan]

AVIC says:

View attachment 389857

Hi,

Your AVATAR---the Falcon---is this the Falcon statue that Wilbur Smith writes about in his book The Flight of The Falcons---.

 

[Tempest II]

Hi,

Your AVATAR---the Falcon---is this the Falcon statue that Wilbur Smith writes about in his book The Flight of The Falcons---.

It is the African Fish Eagle.

 

[JamD]

Waiting for JF-17B like a

 

[krash]

It is the African Fish Eagle.

And, I believe, this particular representation is from Zimbabwe's national emblem.

 

[Tempest II]

And, I believe, this particular representation is from Zimbabwe's national emblem.

Yes Sir.

 

[Arsalan]

The two seat version, are the final to be coming in Blk-II configuration or Blk-III?
I am pointing this out because it seems that we are already approaching the end of Blk-II 50 planes production target. It seems that these two seat versions are going to be in addition to the 150 planes (divided in three blocks of 50 each). Or is it like that the majority of Blk-III will be two seat version. Any ideas?

@Tempest II @araz

 

[MystryMan]

"Version B has low wing loading compared to standard ver "

What does the above statement signify in layman's terms?

 

[CriticalThought]

[QUOT

"Version B has low wing loading compared to standard ver "

What does the above statement signify in layman's terms?

Either larger wing surface area, or lower weight, or both.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The two seat version, are the final to be coming in Blk-II configuration or Blk-III?
I am pointing this out because it seems that we are already approaching the end of Blk-II 50 planes production target. It seems that these two seat versions are going to be in addition to the 150 planes (divided in three blocks of 50 each). Or is it like that the majority of Blk-III will be two seat version. Any ideas?

@Tempest II @araz

The PAF will order some JF-17 Block-IIs on top of the 50 it originally intended. This is to bridge the production gap from the 50th Block-II and 1st Block-III. It's possible that these follow-on fighters will be JF-17B.

"Version B has low wing loading compared to standard ver "

What does the above statement signify in layman's terms?

The lower the wing loading, the better the maneuverability and shorter the landing and take-off distances.

 

[ziaulislam]

The PAF will order some JF-17 Block-IIs on top of the 50 it originally intended. This is to bridge the production gap from the 50th Block-II and 1st Block-III. It's possible that these follow-on fighters will be JF-17B.


The lower the wing loading, the better the maneuverability and shorter the landing and take-off distances.

will it has to ultimately replace the FT-7s

 

[Tempest II]

The two seat version, are the final to be coming in Blk-II configuration or Blk-III?
I am pointing this out because it seems that we are already approaching the end of Blk-II 50 planes production target. It seems that these two seat versions are going to be in addition to the 150 planes (divided in three blocks of 50 each). Or is it like that the majority of Blk-III will be two seat version. Any ideas?

@Tempest II @araz

For me it is difficult to estimate the JF-17B demand because the PAF seems not to need it for normal activities. They have 5 squadrons operational without a 2-seater. The 2-seater, it seems is for

(1) PAF/CATIC R&D to development and integrate weapons.

(2) PAF/CATIC sales efforts to allow foreign customers to test-drive the fighter.

(3) for foreign customers training requirements once they buy the fighters.

I would have expected about 4 2-seater in a squadron of 18 fighters. The fact that only 3 are being assembled with one to be based at CATIC suggest to me the 2 PAF birds will be at PAC Kamra rather than at the units for operational conversion.

The interesting bit also is that the rumoured/speculated orders for Nigeria and Myanmar don’t seem to include 2-seaters. But then maybe the 3 reported to be in assembly, might just mean the B production line has three bays or sets of tools.

Airframe wise, beyond the two seats, I am thinking the JF-17B will be closer to the Block III, unless they are going to do what they did with the FT-7 which kept an older airframe while the single seats moved to the double-delta structure. The JF-17 Block 2 run will be completed by the end of the year. Assuming a Block III 2-seater that will be different to the 3 we that will be rolled out soon seems a waste of resources. I therefore think that when we see the JF-17B, externally and structurally should be close to Block III.

Disclaimer: All my speculation of course.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

For me it is difficult to estimate the JF-17B demand because the PAF seems not to need it for normal activities. They have 5 squadrons operational without a 2-seater. The 2-seater, it seems is for

(1) PAF/CATIC R&D to development and integrate weapons.

(2) PAF/CATIC sales efforts to allow foreign customers to test-drive the fighter.

(3) for foreign customers training requirements once they buy the fighters.

I would have expected about 4 2-seater in a squadron of 18 fighters. The fact that only 3 are being assembled with one to be based at CATIC suggest to me the 2 PAF birds will be at PAC Kamra rather than at the units for operational conversion.

The interesting bit also is that the rumoured/speculated orders for Nigeria and Myanmar don’t seem to include 2-seaters. But then maybe the 3 reported to be in assembly, might just mean the B production line has three bays or sets of tools.

Airframe wise, beyond the two seats, I am thinking the JF-17B will be closer to the Block III, unless they are going to do what they did with the FT-7 which kept an older airframe while the single seats moved to the double-delta structure. The JF-17 Block 2 run will be completed by the end of the year. Assuming a Block III 2-seater that will be different to the 3 we that will be rolled out soon seems a waste of resources. I therefore think that when we see the JF-17B, externally and structurally should be close to Block III.

Disclaimer: All my speculation of course.

In 2015 the current PAF CAS - ACM Sohail Aman - strongly suggested that the PAF would procure JF-17Bs for LIFT. This was said in an interview with Alan Warnes (via AFM) where ACM Aman said that while the PAF had looked at the KAI T-50 and AVIC L-15, it didn't deem them cost-effective enough for the role (with particular concern towards the operating cost of the afterburning engines). He then proceeded to say something along the lines of 'the problem will be solved with the dual-seat JF-17.' LIFT/FCU could be the JF-17B's role in the PAF.

 

[araz]

It is the African Fish Eagle.

The two seat version, are the final to be coming in Blk-II configuration or Blk-III?
I am pointing this out because it seems that we are already approaching the end of Blk-II 50 planes production target. It seems that these two seat versions are going to be in addition to the 150 planes (divided in three blocks of 50 each). Or is it like that the majority of Blk-III will be two seat version. Any ideas?

@Tempest II @araz

In my humble opinion since the Block 3 has not even been finalized the current configuration will be block 2 + with a few changes in keeping with what has been envisaged in block 3.We may yet go down the route of an upgrade once the plans for block 3 are consolidated and sealed.
A