Pakistan Navy to Purchase Frigates from China

[Ahmet Pasha]

Whats the number main battle oriented ships we have right now apart from FACs??

 

[Tank131]

The best case scenario would be some akim to the Type 057 frigate which @AZADPAKISTAN2009 was showing as 054c. This (by artist rendering, which turned out to be close to a model displayed at Ideas 2016) showed 32 cell vls in fron of the bridge, amd a 16 cell unit in front of the hangar at midship. In addition it had 2 ciws and PDMS mounted over the hangar. 4 of these would provide a huge boost to the PN, especially in the area of air defense. Midship vls could be loaded theoretically woth HQ-9A/B and the 32 cells in front with 32 - 128 medium range missiles, backed by 24 short range missiles from the PDMS and 2 ciws, It would be a beast of a ship.

But i think more likely to see a tiger class type (development of c28a which itself is derived from F-22p) or the Multi mission frigate (24 cells but 1500t). These would likely be medium ranged SAM equipped which is still far better than what PN has.

We have gotten lot of things from China janab so not fantasy world but ourselves won't want to get them for free. We would like to pay for the weapons. As for ship which ever ship it should have VLS for Cruise Missiles

I dont think China is going to just give these up vessels but a discount or long term soft loans maybe. Additionally vls for cruise missile is, as before, unlikely in vessels of these size. You need full fledged destroyer size vessels like 7000t+ to get large enough vls for both air defense amd land attack. If you must have LACM on these ships it would likely be in a dual use format (Land Attack and Antiship) where the missile would be canister fired from 2x2 launchers in place of standar AShMs for these sub 7000t size ship, especially for PN which desperately needs air defese to protect its true LACM ships (subs), the VLS equipped ships wpuld be better suited for SAMs.

 

[War Thunder]

Can u please name the that facility in Multan? Please

Are you an idiot or what?

 

[CHI RULES]

Agree.
Plus, if you all just noticed, in the past two decades, we haven't got the best which China had, it has always been their tier 2, 3 product that made into Pakistan.
Now, is it the Pakistanis that don't want the best from China or is it the Chinese that don't offer their best is the question. But if it's the latter one, than forget any Destroyer or J11s, you are not even getting a decent air defence ship.
The downsides of relying too much on one supplier, earlier it was U.S., now it's China.

Sir money talks, China is the supplier which is generally described the most liked supplier which can provide you much hi tech stuff with least strings. The only thing is nothing is free in this world you have to pay for every thing. If China is using/going to use Gawadar they will/shall pay Pakistan huge amounts for boarding and lodging along with freight. It is a mutually beneficial project. But on the other side the burden of security strictly lies on Pak shoulders , you cannot shift this burden on China shoulders.

The one can check by travelling along side silk road from Abbotabad to Sust to observe what China has contributed with. The project was perhaps started many years back not now as claimed by NZ govt. Now the most of infrastructure is ready and directly financed/builded by our Chinese friends. But you cannot blame them for noy providing hi tech equipment.
The J11s are themselves perhaps copy of Su 27 and many have explained that China is restricted to export them. The F22Ps are already having decent gadgets as per their costs, if PN requires still PN can pay and get at least medium range SAMs for them. Similarly for destroyers perhaps they are costly enough and not suitable for PN requirements due to cost issues.

PN should go for medium weight frigate with maximum stealth features and capable Medium range SAMs and off course capable ASHM, SSM, and ASMs are must.

 

[Basel]

which mean it will be a new design .... not F-22(P)

PN may not want to go with F-22P now as it does not add much to current capacity of PN.

 

[Super Falcon]

Pak navy Should consider nothing less than DDG 52 Because India has 3 aircraft carrier we need sufficient class of ship which atleast has potent air defence shield to save our other ships and our sea shores as well

Smallers types won't do much good for saving our shores

 

[khanasifm]

I will personally pass on message to chief, pm and the president that pdf is demanding nothing less than xyz

I am sure they have no clue and this will help them getting additional loans, begging and they will have to obey



On the lighter side

 

[ziaulislam]

Whats the number main battle oriented ships we have right now apart from FACs??

4 amazon class ex British ships(need to go ASAP), 4 F22 frigates and 1 OHP class firgate
was suppose to be 4+6 configuration but USA blocked further OHP

 

[Tank131]

Pak navy Should consider nothing less than DDG 52 Because India has 3 aircraft carrier we need sufficient class of ship which atleast has potent air defence shield to save our other ships and our sea shores as well

Smallers types won't do much good for saving our shores

Who is going to pay for that? PN is a defensive force, amd as such a medium to heavy frigate in the 4-5000t range is more sufficient. Something with 32-48 vls cells amd can equip 8 AShM/LACM and has room for PMDS/CIWS and anti-sub weaponry and equipment like a good ASW helicopter, torpedoes amd anti-sub rockets like RDC-32 or better as well as towed sonars ect. That plus a quad packed medium range missile coupled with a solid long range missile and electronics like AESA radars and good C4ISR capabilities is going to be a difficult thing for IN to deal with, even with their own very potent fleet which will include 2 carriers.

Such a frigate (with 48 cells as shown on some renderings of Type 057 would have the ability to field 16 long range SAMs (like HQ9A/B) giving a 200km reach, and back that with 128 medium ranged sams from 40-50km ranges. These would be backed 24 short range (9km) missiles from FL3000N, which would be backed by 2 CIWS. This ship would out gun any destroyer in IN with regards to air defense including the upcoming Visakhapatnam and current Kolkata class destroyers which carry 32 Barak 8 (90km). They wpuld overcome mpst saturation strikes and if armed with an antiship capable version of Babur it would out range any IN vessel in Antiship capabilities, although more likely it would be equipped with C-802A or Zarb (280km vs 300+ km).

 

[FuturePAF]

While PN decides what it can afford to get; it should work on upgrading the F-22P it already has to the a capability at least the level of the Type 26 Frigate of the royal navy.

1. It can start by asking the Chinese develop a quad packed 25 km equivalent to the CAMM missile; packing even 8 cells with 4 missiles a piece and fitting them to the front of the F-22P would give decent defensive AAW then the current HQ-7 on there now.
2. Next the PN can develop a mast similar to the Thales Imast but with a modern AESA like the Smart S MK. 2 on top to keep costs down.
3. Remove the old Yagi Radar, and place 6 if not 8 cells for the CX-1 mach 3 class missiles to add a next level Antiship capability to the F-22P platform.
4. Upgrade the ASW capability with a towed array work on retrofitting the ships with ways to make it machinery as quiet as possible; propellers, engines, etc.
5. add in the needed electronics upgrades to maximize information sharing; C4ISR with other assets

It might cost tens of millions per ship, but in the end the PN will have modern capabilities while it waits for its finances and technology to improve, and hopefully the prices comes down on key technologies which might give the PN the edge like GaN Aesa.

 

[CHI RULES]

Who is going to pay for that? PN is a defensive force, amd as such a medium to heavy frigate in the 4-5000t range is more sufficient. Something with 32-48 vls cells amd can equip 8 AShM/LACM and has room for PMDS/CIWS and anti-sub weaponry and equipment like a good ASW helicopter, torpedoes amd anti-sub rockets like RDC-32 or better as well as towed sonars ect. That plus a quad packed medium range missile coupled with a solid long range missile and electronics like AESA radars and good C4ISR capabilities is going to be a difficult thing for IN to deal with, even with their own very potent fleet which will include 2 carriers.

Such a frigate (with 48 cells as shown on some renderings of Type 057 would have the ability to field 16 long range SAMs (like HQ9A/B) giving a 200km reach, and back that with 128 medium ranged sams from 40-50km ranges. These would be backed 24 short range (9km) missiles from FL3000N, which would be backed by 2 CIWS. This ship would out gun any destroyer in IN with regards to air defense including the upcoming Visakhapatnam and current Kolkata class destroyers which carry 32 Barak 8 (90km). They wpuld overcome mpst saturation strikes and if armed with an antiship capable version of Babur it would out range any IN vessel in Antiship capabilities, although more likely it would be equipped with C-802A or Zarb (280km vs 300+ km).

Sir PN getting 8 subs from China which is remedy for all diseases for PN, the 11 potent subs certainly armed with 600 KM+ range Babur CM dual purpose for anti ship and surface attack role, shall be enough to keep enemy ACs at long ranges along with other heavy destroyers. The main face to face counter shall be between frigates and FACs along with naval jets.

You and others have pointed out rightly the SAM requirements of at least of Medium range.

 

[Tank131]

Sir PN getting 8 subs from China which is remedy for all diseases for PN, the 11 potent subs certainly armed with 600 KM+ range Babur CM dual purpose for anti ship and surface attack role, shall be enough to keep enemy ACs at long ranges along with other heavy destroyers. The main face to face counter shall be between frigates and FACs along with naval jets.

You and others have pointed out rightly the SAM requirements of at least of Medium range.

Not just medium range, but numbers of missiles needs to be high to overcome saturation attack.

 

[khanasifm]

Not just medium range, but numbers of missiles needs to be high to overcome saturation attack.

Usually ships operate in pairs or in close vicinity in case help is needed so with good range missile can supplement each other

16-32 is good number pn has no desire to operate outside of its aor or Arabian Sea

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Combination of a large ship , with a Local Stealth ship like Azmat class would do wonder
2 Ship Patrol Group

 

[Awan68]

How many construction berths does karachi ship yard has, that is how many ships can be constructed simultaneously?, anyone?