Pakistan Navy to Purchase Frigates from China

[YeBeWarned]

It's worth remembering that the F-22P isn't equipped with the same standard of electronics as the MILGEM Ada or even the Chinese C28A. E.g. whereas the latter make use of the Thales SMART-S Mk2 phased-array radar, the F-22P uses legacy mechanically-steered system. If we had equipped the F-22P with comparable electronics, then I am very confident that the unit price would have rose from $175 m each to $225 m, easily. Likewise, if the PN is indeed going for the CSOC 4,000-ton frigate or the IDEAS frigate, then the price of each will not be less than $350-400 m. But if those are coming with APAR, passive OTH, VLS and LR-SAM, then that's a bargain as a similar Western ship would cost $600-750+ m each.

any idea why PN has not Install FL-3000 cIWS on their F-22P's and Azmat Class ?

 

[Tank131]

any idea why PN has not Install FL-3000 cIWS on their F-22P's and Azmat Class ?

Cost savings probably. I have long advocated that the main dual 23mm gun should be replaced by a CIWS like AK630 and that the current CIWS be replaced by an 18-24 cell FL-3000N giving the ship dual layer (albeit low ranged) air defense.

The 4000t CSOC frigate (im still calling it 057 cuz it looks very similar to the rendition of 057) is the best option for Pakistan if it is available. Such a ship could be capable of fleet level defense (some renditions have even shown it with the 16 cells at midship in addition to 32 in front). Its sensor range if anywhere close to SAMPSON radar would put it in the 350-400km range giving a huge awareness to the fleet. Between these and AWACS the PN would have a great situation awareness of the entire eez.

 

[kingQamaR]

Sooner or later China will give Pakistan destroyers too neutralise India advantage . Not for CPEC .
This is what China has been doing in other areas too in helping and strengthening Pakistan . It is how China does things to rebalances things . And to contain India bogged down with Pakistan

 

[YeBeWarned]

Cost savings probably. I have long advocated that the main dual 23mm gun should be replaced by a CIWS like AK630 and that the current CIWS be replaced by an 18-24 cell FL-3000N giving the ship dual layer (albeit low ranged) air defense.

The 4000t CSOC frigate (im still calling it 057 cuz it looks very similar to the rendition of 057) is the best option for Pakistan if it is available. Such a ship could be capable of fleet level defense (some renditions have even shown it with the 16 cells at midship in addition to 32 in front). Its sensor range if anywhere close to SAMPSON radar would put it in the 350-400km range giving a huge awareness to the fleet. Between these and AWACS the PN would have a great situation awareness of the entire eez.

what would be the cost of Installing 18 cell Fl-3000 ? i mean we have Azmat class FAC which is stealth Design but without any Air defense .. which is very weird to me , even F-22P's does not have it ..

 

[FuturePAF]

what would be the cost of Installing 18 cell Fl-3000 ? i mean we have Azmat class FAC which is stealth Design but without any Air defense .. which is very weird to me , even F-22P's does not have it ..

If the Azmat class is upgraded similar to the Greek Roussen class FAC it would have a decent air defense (Fl-3000 on the fan tail, aand upgrade the maain gun with a saab 40 mm main gun), the only different should be adding a Imast 100 mast to allow the ship to be a patrol boat with decent 360 degree situational awareness

the ship launch system should be moved ahead of the missile launchers as it is used intermittently, but the air defense missile in a constant always armed and ready mode

http://www.naval-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/09/2_boat.jpg

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Having 8 ships with 60 Missiles on it each better option , looking at 500 missiles protective umberella (CPEC grant/lease for 20 years)

Can't substitute it with small ships

Small ships are useful no doubt and have their impact but you can't just depend on small ships for your long term objectives

The Azmat class what it represents has made improvements and it is a nice program
but getting larger ships is more about the long term big picture around stability

 

[Awan68]

8 Ships on Grant or Lease would be ideal to safe guard CPEC , how long is the chinese Lease on port 50-100 years?

Would make sense to get a 'Grant' / Lease for ships 6-8 for duration of Security needs

Need some confidence building Multiplier


It would make sense

Lease of 8 Ships would also be acceptable as it could be tied to Pakistan Navy's goals for Buy as you go process as Navy gets funds they can make payments on the final purchase etc

"In order to protect CPEC we need 8 advance ships it is very simple equation"​

the lease is of 40 yrs and no we dont need ships on grant or whatever, its humiliating, we will buy whatever is required, if we can sign a 5 bil deal for subs than surely we can come up with 3.2 bil for 8 surface ships..

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The good thing about frigates and submarines is that recapitalization or replacing is not needed for 40-50 years at a time. So that investment of $2.4 billion for acquiring eight good frigates would last a while, the key is to select the ships that are the most cost-effective to operate over those many decades.

 

[Tank131]

I also still advocate trying to get the Adelaides from Australia. They should still be able to serve for another 10-15 years at least.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well I don't think getting 8 Type052 ships from China would count as humilitation because these ships are actually acting to protect national interest for China / Pakistan in oceans

The 8 Ships should be supplimented by Local Azmat Class (Plus) project

We have a Port agreement with china for 50-100 years , and thus it makes sense to grow the joint collaboration on Sea security and that can only be done by 8 High quality surface ships

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I also still advocate trying to get the Adelaides from Australia. They should still be able to serve for another 10-15 years at least.

I think the baseline EEZ and SLOC patrol needs will be met by the Swift Corvettes and Damen OPVs. With those now in the pipeline, the PN's focus would have to be on war-fighting (i.e. AShW, ASW and AAW) ships.

Personally, my dream scenario would be to have 4 of those 4,000+ ton Chinese frigates with HQ-9 (+ APAR & OTR) and 8 2,350-ton LF-2400 from Turkey with Umkhonto EIR. That or 6-8 of the 4,000+ ton Chinese frigates.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I also still advocate trying to get the Adelaides from Australia. They should still be able to serve for another 10-15 years at least.

That platform is not bad but just past price the Computer system and weapons system are all outdated

 

[YeBeWarned]

I think the baseline EEZ and SLOC patrol needs will be met by the Swift Corvettes and Damen OPVs. With those now in the pipeline, the PN's focus would have to be on war-fighting (i.e. AShW, ASW and AAW) ships.

Personally, my dream scenario would be to have 4 of those 4,000+ ton Chinese frigates with HQ-9 (+ APAR & OTR) and 8 2,350-ton LF-2400 from Turkey with Umkhonto EIR. That or 6-8 of the 4,000+ ton Chinese frigates.

i still have a feeling that Ada will come but without the RAM-2 Launcher

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

i still have a feeling that Ada will come but without the RAM-2 Launcher

Honestly, with the Swift Corvette and Damen OPV on order, there's zero need for the MILGEM Ada. Yes it has ASW, but you don't necessarily require a ship as complex and costly as the Ada for just that one additional role. Besides, the Swift Corvettes can carry ASW torpedo tubes too, but likely cost a fraction of the Ada.

If a Turkish ship is still sought (big 'IF'), then it would be much more sensible to pick the LF-2400. It's basically just the Ada with a 9 m stretched hull, CODAD propulsion and 16-cell VLS. It's also just 50 tons heavier.

In fact, this wouldn't even be the first time the PN would pick-up a new design ... it had bought three (i.e. F-22P + Fleet Tanker + Swift Corvette) new designs in the past 10 years. Decent AAW capabilities don't cost that much ... a Saab Sea Giraffe radar costs $12.5 m, while 16 Umkhonto IR around $15-20 m in total. Good subsystem and weapon selection could keep the LF-2400's unit cost within $250 m.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Honestly, with the Swift Corvette and Damen OPV on order, there's zero need for the MILGEM Ada. Yes it has ASW, but you don't necessarily require a ship as complex and costly as the Ada for just that one additional role. Besides, the Swift Corvettes can carry ASW torpedo tubes too, but likely cost a fraction of the Ada.

If a Turkish ship is still sought (big 'IF'), then it would be much more sensible to pick the LF-2400. It's basically just the Ada with a 9 m stretched hull, CODAD propulsion and 16-cell VLS. It's also just 50 tons heavier.

In fact, this wouldn't even be the first time the PN would pick-up a new design ... it had bought three (i.e. F-22P + Fleet Tanker + Swift Corvette) new designs in the past 10 years. Decent AAW capabilities don't cost that much ... a Saab Sea Giraffe radar costs $12.5 m, while 16 Umkhonto IR around $15-20 m in total. Good subsystem and weapon selection could keep the LF-2400's unit cost within $250 m.



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The deal for ADA suppose to be signed by June or July this year but since than we haven't heard anything .. maybe they are opting for LF-2400 that that is why coming up for financial deals are taking time .. ? but yea i agree its a big IF .. and who knows that the Turkish deal is off, that is why PN is going for Chinese Frigates + 2 75 Meter Swift ship Corvette .. with 4 Swifships i don't see any Possible role of ADA or even LF-2400 besides supporting the F-22P's .

by the way the Model you posted above does not have VLS .... why ?