Pakistan Navy to Purchase Frigates from China

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

You know I always wonder why don't we just use the steel from steeles mills for defence products like ships and save on imports ?

Salaries are paid to worker each year , and nothing is produced , so might as well ask the people to make something like metal sheets or hulls for ships !! The Country/Nation is already paying bill for Pakistan Steeles Mills might as well build something like Corvettes or OPV

We pay salaries to like 10,000 workers to 20,000 workers in Steeles mills and the plant is not producing any goods , so my suggestion is that steels mills be converted into a Military Steel Manufacturing at leaste we can make useful stuff. This plant has been running 10% efficiency might as well convert it to a full Military Steel Production and tie it up with our Defence corporations

• Steel Plates for Ship construction / Hull design beems and nuts and bolts
  
• Fence for border closure across afghtanistan/pakistan border
  
• Steel / metal products for Tanks / APC
• Build steel halls for busses / Trucks (import engine/transmission etc)

If the state is paying salaries anyways might as well get something in return even if it is a defence product

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The deal for ADA suppose to be signed by June or July this year but since than we haven't heard anything .. maybe they are opting for LF-2400 that that is why coming up for financial deals are taking time .. ? but yea i agree its a big IF .. and who knows that the Turkish deal is off, that is why PN is going for Chinese Frigates + 2 75 Meter Swift ship Corvette .. with 4 Swifships i don't see any Possible role of ADA or even LF-2400 besides supporting the F-22P's .

by the way the Model you posted above does not have VLS .... why ?

The only reason why I don't think the Turkish deal is off is that it was being negotiated all the way up to May of this year. It is incredibly unlikely that the PN could cut brand new warship deals in China and the US - including the issue of finance - in a period of a few months. I suspect all of these deals were being negotiated at the same time, so it's possible they were planned together.

As for the role the LF-2400 could play ... it would be to support the F-22P in a war fighting role. The Damen OPV and Swift Corvette are optimal for guarding the EEZ and SLOC from peacetime maritime threats, such as crime, piracy, etc and supporting the A2/AD need in littoral waters. OTOH the F-22P and LF-2400, esp. if they're equipped with VLS-based AAW, can help guard the SLOC from IN blockade attempts and/or escort Pakistani merchant ships to sustain trade between Karachi/Gwadar and the Arab Gulf/Africa.

LF-2400's VLS:

You know I always wonder why don't we just use the steel from steeles mills for defence products like ships and save on imports ?

Salaries are paid to worker each year , and nothing is produced , so might as well ask the people to make something like metal sheets or hulls for ships !! The Country/Nation is already paying bill for Pakistan Steeles Mills might as well build something like Corvettes or OPV

It requires investment in forging high-quality steel for shipbuilding. It has to be done, but unfortunately not a lot of emphasis was given to indigenous sourcing of critical goods, e.g. high-grade steel, gas turbines, engines, etc. Modern frigates such as the LF-2400 also require composite materials for the superstructure (to lower RCS), so there needs to be investment in that are as well (worth doing since they intend to make a 5th-gen fighter and MALE UAV in Pakistan as well).

 

[ziaulislam]

You know I always wonder why don't we just use the steel from steeles mills for defence products like ships and save on imports ?

Salaries are paid to worker each year , and nothing is produced , so might as well ask the people to make something like metal sheets or hulls for ships !! The Country/Nation is already paying bill for Pakistan Steeles Mills might as well build something like Corvettes or OPV

We pay salaries to like 10,000 workers to 20,000 workers in Steeles mills and the plant is not producing any goods , so my suggestion is that steels mills be converted into a Military Steel Manufacturing at leaste we can make useful stuff. This plant has been running 10% efficiency might as well convert it to a full Military Steel Production and tie it up with our Defence corporations

• Steel Plates for Ship construction / Hull design beems and nuts and bolts
  
• Fence for border closure across afghtanistan/pakistan border
  
• Steel / metal products for Tanks / APC
• Build steel halls for busses / Trucks (import engine/transmission etc)

If the state is paying salaries anyways might as well get something in return even if it is a defence product

there is huge requirement for steel not just in defence but it cost more to make steel as its too high corruption and no body dares to do anything ....just listen to zardari explaining his point of view "who dares going after me, NAB key kia oqat hein"

 

[Tank131]

I think the baseline EEZ and SLOC patrol needs will be met by the Swift Corvettes and Damen OPVs. With those now in the pipeline, the PN's focus would have to be on war-fighting (i.e. AShW, ASW and AAW) ships.

Personally, my dream scenario would be to have 4 of those 4,000+ ton Chinese frigates with HQ-9 (+ APAR & OTR) and 8 2,350-ton LF-2400 from Turkey with Umkhonto EIR. That or 6-8 of the 4,000+ ton Chinese frigates.

I think for me, PN would go for the Adelaides, fit CAMM or K-SAAM in place of the ESSM, then get a Sylver A43 for Alamghir with CAMM/K-SAAM, giving 4 OHPs. Put all 4 through the GENESIS upgrade including SMART S mk 2. Have the 4 4000t CSOC Frigates with HQ9 and Dk-10 or quadpacked chinese missile if available. Upgrade the F-22P with the SMART S mk2 and get 8-16 cell VLS (with CAMM or a quad packed chinese missile if ready) for them if possible, if not exchange FM-90s for Umkhonto ir/er when available. Add a 24 cell FL-3000N above the hangar.

This gives 12 large surface combatants all with reasonable to good air defense (each more capable in air defense than any IN frigate/destroyer). All would have reasonable to good ASW & AShW capabilities as well. The OHP will give the PN a 15-20 year stop gap, allowing it to get more modern and capable ships at its own pace.

 

[Gryphon]

i still have a feeling that Ada will come but without the RAM-2 Launcher

Ada can be installed with Phalanx instead of RAM. Pakistan has some 7 units, according to a CRS report.

I think for me, PN would go for the Adelaides, fit CAMM or K-SAAM in place of the ESSM, then get a Sylver A43 for Alamghir with CAMM/K-SAAM, giving 4 OHPs. Put all 4 through the GENESIS upgrade including SMART S mk 2. Have the 4 4000t CSOC Frigates with HQ9 and Dk-10 or quadpacked chinese missile if available. Upgrade the F-22P with the SMART S mk2 and get 8-16 cell VLS (with CAMM or a quad packed chinese missile if ready) for them if possible, if not exchange FM-90s for Umkhonto ir/er when available. Add a 24 cell FL-3000N above the hangar.

This gives 12 large surface combatants all with reasonable to good air defense (each more capable in air defense than any IN frigate/destroyer). All would have reasonable to good ASW & AShW capabilities as well. The OHP will give the PN a 15-20 year stop gap, allowing it to get more modern and capable ships at its own pace.

Acquiring Adelaide class frigates probably requires US permission which is difficult to come by.

Honestly, with the Swift Corvette and Damen OPV on order, there's zero need for the MILGEM Ada. Yes it has ASW, but you don't necessarily require a ship as complex and costly as the Ada for just that one additional role. Besides, the Swift Corvettes can carry ASW torpedo tubes too, but likely cost a fraction of the Ada.

Damen 1900t OPV doesn't count in A2/AD except for SAR. Swiftships corvettes can take the ASW role if PN manages to get at least 4 ships (ideally 6-8).

I imagine those guarding the littoral waters in wartime from any submarine which manages to sneak in. The good thing is it can data-link with PN MPA's and other aircraft.

I hope PN signs for LF-2400, which is worth the money spent.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Ada can be installed with Phalanx instead of RAM. Pakistan has some 7 units, according to a CRS report.

but Ada will not bring anything new to the table which Swiftship 75 Meter Corvette won't .. so why bother to buy another similar size Corvette ? buying 2 Swift ship corvette with a possible order of 2 more will be good, for Turks we have LF-2400 Light frigate option , which make more sense if you compare it with Ada .. and Planx is not as good as Ram-2 or FL-3000N does it ?

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Penguin can Damen OPV's 1800 support Planx or Chinese FL-3000N ?

 

[Gryphon]

but Ada will not bring anything new to the table which Swiftship 75 Meter Corvette won't .. so why bother to buy another similar size Corvette ? buying 2 Swift ship corvette with a possible order of 2 more will be good, for Turks we have LF-2400 Light frigate option , which make more sense if you compare it with Ada .. and Planx is not as good as Ram-2 or FL-3000N does it ?

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Penguin can Damen OPV's 1800 support Planx or Chinese FL-3000N ?

Phalanx is a CIWS for protection against AShM. It's good for this purpose.

Damen OPV's can fit Phalanx but are unlikely to get any. They are 'OPV' after all.

 

[ziaulislam]

Who is paying for swift ships...how did PN bypassed everything and end ip with swift

 

[monitor]

I think for me, PN would go for the Adelaides, fit CAMM or K-SAAM in place of the ESSM, then get a Sylver A43 for Alamghir with CAMM/K-SAAM, giving 4 OHPs. Put all 4 through the GENESIS upgrade including SMART S mk 2. Have the 4 4000t CSOC Frigates with HQ9 and Dk-10 or quadpacked chinese missile if available. Upgrade the F-22P with the SMART S mk2 and get 8-16 cell VLS (with CAMM or a quad packed chinese missile if ready) for them if possible, if not exchange FM-90s for Umkhonto ir/er when available. Add a 24 cell FL-3000N above the hangar.

This gives 12 large surface combatants all with reasonable to good air defense (each more capable in air defense than any IN frigate/destroyer). All would have reasonable to good ASW & AShW capabilities as well. The OHP will give the PN a 15-20 year stop gap, allowing it to get more modern and capable ships at its own pace.

What you are suggest is getting western component which is sanctions prone and expensive. I think getting Turkish Chinese frigate and sub system best along with some western platform if available .

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Here is Pakistan's circumstances:

• We can make a Ship yard anywhere across 1000km shoreline
• We have 100,000 or 200,000 Engineers who can work on building ship by hand
• We have a 1970's steeles Mills one of largest assets in Pakistan sitting "idle" every employee gets salary by government
• The mills can make every part imaginable for ship building

Workers will collect salaries, regardless you build something or not , the money will go in their pockets. They still collect salaries even if they do nothing now

If state , government is paying workers salaries , build 100 meter ships minus weapons systems add the weapons system when budget gets approval

It seems we have all the pieces of the puzzle, just need a vision that yes , we will activate the workforce to build something instead of just sitting idle waiting for someone from outside to come fix things

 

[YeBeWarned]

Phalanx is a CIWS for protection against AShM. It's good for this purpose.

Damen OPV's can fit Phalanx but are unlikely to get any. They are 'OPV' after all.

PN OpV's will be patrolling the extended EEZ , so adding up a Planlanx wont hurt them right ?

 

[Gryphon]

PN OpV's will be patrolling the extended EEZ , so adding up a Planlanx wont hurt them right ?

Phalanx is anti-anti ship missile weapon. Who is going to fire AShM's on those OPV's? The pirates ?

 

[YeBeWarned]

Phalanx is anti-anti ship missile weapon. Who is going to fire AShM's on those OPV's? The pirates ?

In war time they can be used for Escorting the Cargo ships and guard other ships .

 

[Basel]

Phalanx is a CIWS for protection against AShM. It's good for this purpose.

Damen OPV's can fit Phalanx but are unlikely to get any. They are 'OPV' after all.

When you are facing threat of Supersonic AShMs then you will like to engage them from far from ship and CIWS (Phalanx) is not good for that as even after hitting Supersonic AShMs at 2-3 km the missile remains can cause damage to ship due to it's speed/kinetic energy.

 

[Gryphon]

In war time they can be used for Escorting the Cargo ships and guard other ships .

An OPV armed with a few guns and Phalanx escorting ships? It has no AShW and SHORAD capabilities to begin with.