PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[Deino]

@messiach wanted to get some idea that WS-10 engine core is based on the russian tech and not on the US as is believed.

Its written that WS-10 engine core is based on CFM, but what i learned or told is tht actually its based on russian tech, the AL-31 engine tech but with chinese additions or improvements.

Is any truth to it ??

You learned this via what?

 

[Jammer]

 

[TaimiKhan]

You learned this via what?

A friend of mine who told me nearly 2 years back that J10s are coming, and then a year back said that pilot training has started and few months back said that J10s are ready but delay from our end and then 3-4 months back said that u gonna see J10s on this 23rd march parade and i even posted here that guys be ready in couple of months for J10s.

I was told that they are coming with Russian engines, so when i saw WS-10s, i asked again and was told that they are based on russian technology but with improvements enhancements from chinese.

Then came to know that the initial chinese engine tech was based on CFM tech but midway changed to russian one or kind of a mix of both with getting the best from both but heavily relying on russian core design.

So that is why asking @messiach as he may have some insight and shed further light on it.

Till date no chinese official source has clear material or info on WS-10 main design influence and this is the first time that WS-10 engine / tech has been exported to outside of china, thus we may find out what is WS-10s are made from.

And to chinese members, plz dont take my post or query in way as being some kind of an insult to chinese tech or as if i have any issue with it, i have non. I have great respect for china and the way their tech has progressed in last 2 decades.

I am posting for sharing and gaining knowledge.

So what if its based on russian tech, chinese always improve and bring better then original ones. That is what matters.

 

[siegecrossbow]

A friend of mine who told me nearly 2 years back that J10s are coming, and then a year back said that pilot training has started and few months back said that J10s are ready but delay from our end and then 3-4 months back said that u gonna see J10s on this 23rd march parade and i even posted here that guys be ready in couple of months for J10s.

I was told that they are coming with Russian engines, so when i saw WS-10s, i asked again and was told that they are based on russian technology but with improvements enhancements from chinese.

Then came to know that the initial chinese engine tech was based on CFM tech but midway changed to russian one or kind of a mix of both with getting the best from both but heavily relying on russian core design.

So that is why asking @messiach as he may have some insight and shed further light on it.

Till date no chinese official source has clear material or info on WS-10 main design influence and this is the first time that WS-10 engine / tech has been exported to outside of china, thus we may find out what is WS-10s are made from.

And to chinese members, plz dont take my post or query in way as being some kind of an insult to chinese tech or as if i have any issue with it, i have non. I have great respect for china and the way their tech has progressed in last 2 decades.

I am posting for sharing and gaining knowledge.

So what if its based on russian tech, chinese always improve and bring better then original ones. That is what matters.

He might've gotten it mixed up. The core design is CFM, even though there are rumors that WS-10 incorporated changes from AL-31. It is very difficult to change the core of an engine. Once you change the core, you pretty much have a completely new engine and you need to start all over.

 

[TaimiKhan]

It is based on the CFM56 and the project actually began in the early 1980s before China had access to the AL-31. China bought two CFM56II engines outside of any airliner order -- the Pentagon did not stop it. (This was the honeymoon period where China got the RR Spey for the JH-7 too.)

The J-11 project began in 1996 and that was what brought the AL-31 to China. Because the WS-10 had a long development period and because China wanted it in a twin-engine for safety, China of course had incorporate learnings from the AL-31 to get the WS-10 working on a J-11.

Undoubtedly, there were some influence from the AL-31 and Russia because that was the original engine for the Flanker. But to say the WS-10 is based on Russian tech is not true. The project can be pretty clearly traced to the CFM56II bought by China and it started before AL-31 tech came to China.

Project started when CFM engines were obtained but the success stages rolled in when AL-31s or its tech got into chinese hand.

Projects start and then get shaped during its time period. You start and keep adapting to situations which come your way.

May be chinese started with CFM, learned from it, faced difficulties, got more knowledge, faced failures, came in new tech, new info, AL-31s came in, chinese studied it, made improvements to earlier design or redesigned the earlier engine design by incorporating both western and russian techs or made something new from these 2 designs and made a better engine.

What harm is there ?? Main thing is China will soon be having sanction free jet engine industry which will benefit us greatly.

He might've gotten it mixed up. The core design is CFM, even though there are rumors that WS-10 incorporated changes from AL-31. It is very difficult to change the core of an engine. Once you change the core, you pretty much have a completely new engine and you need to start all over.

With the time taken by chinese engine coming, there can be easily said that whole engine might have been redesigned by changing the main core or having made something totally new.

So again what harm is there ?? Its Chinese tech now. Better then CFM and must be better in some aspects when compared to AL-31s.

But then again, i may be wrong, that is why asking someone who has inside knowledge when it comes to PAF projects. So far what i have come to know over the years and posted here havent been false.

But still who knows till we see someone who has worked on the engine or was part of the team.

 

[The Eagle]

Chinese

By the way

https://twitter.com/x/status/1499725808667144194

Ketchup of all the videos already posted.

 

[waz]

Congrats Pakistani and Chinese brothers.

Bruce Lee sends his regards;

 

[The Eagle]

From Azerbaijan to Ukraine, Russians have proven their junk is just that...junk.

At this point, the only thing they have are engines and rifles, and that's about it.

Lest not underestimate them with their tier 2 deployment. This is not the place to evaluate quality with their performance in Ukraine which is mostly CNN BBC Fox news leading updates. Please keep it away.

 

[Dual Wielder]

Congrats Pakistani and Chinese brothers.

Bruce Lee send his regards;

So does Mr. Piccolo:

 

[siegecrossbow]

Project started when CFM engines were obtained but the success stages rolled in when AL-31s or its tech got into chinese hand.

Projects start and then get shaped during its time period. You start and keep adapting to situations which come your way.

May be chinese started with CFM, learned from it, faced difficulties, got more knowledge, faced failures, came in new tech, new info, AL-31s came in, chinese studied it, made improvements to earlier design or redesigned the earlier engine design by incorporating both western and russian techs or made something new from these 2 designs and made a better engine.

What harm is there ?? Main thing is China will soon be having sanction free jet engine industry which will benefit us greatly.



With the time taken by chinese engine coming, there can be easily said that whole engine might have been redesigned by changing the main core or having made something totally new.

So again what harm is there ?? Its Chinese tech now. Better then CFM and must be better in some aspects when compared to AL-31s.

But then again, i may be wrong, that is why asking someone who has inside knowledge when it comes to PAF projects. So far what i have come to know over the years and posted here havent been false.

But still who knows till we see someone who has worked on the engine or was part of the team.

Don’t take it personally, but it does matter since the core being based on AL-31 is false information.

 

[MastanKhan]

On 27th February 2019, IAF own words, their pilots were surprised by the distance at which PAF jets were locking on to them, because Indians were made aware of a smaller range and inferior capabilities of PAF radars and jets , and trained accordingly .
Similar strategy here.

Paf had them im their sights and let them escape. They will rue the day for their folly.

 

[The Eagle]

In Pakistan case, @messiach message of ToT for AL-31FN from Russia could have been intended on the same bases as Chinese had the advantage to improve their own WS-10 engine design. Here, the core might help a lot to study and make progress....indeed, not alone initially.

 

[Trango Towers]

Such an awesome aircraft to replace MiGs


View attachment 820737

What migs? Pakistan doesn't have migs

 

[TheDarkKnight]

harami nahin, hamari....

Aik ‘r’ sai wo hamari say harami ho gayi. Wah.

 

[帅的一匹]

My question is, can J10 c fit WS10c engine in the future?