China media claims J-10C fighter jets to upgrade Pakistan's defence industry

[Areesh]

This begs the following questions:
-what was the point of the JF17 if our adversary was already fielding/had placed orders for more advanced jets?

You had around 200+ 3rd Generation Mirages and F7s that needed replacement. Hence in the form of JFT you got very good BVR capable and now AESA radar equipped aircraft to replace all these old aircraft without breaking your bank

-what's the point of the J10C if the Rafale can outgun it?

Who says Rafale can outgun J10C?

J10C PL15 can have same range as Rafale Meteor if not more. In the end it would be the support systems and environment in which J10C would be operating that would decide the outcome of any aerial conflict with Rafale

 

[maverick1977]

That would be a big big thing.

with Semi Conductor coming into Pakistan, along with industrialization of high metallurgical products, Pakistan will get to the top level of military grade products.

Software industry is picking up too.

 

[R Wing]

You had around 200+ 3rd Generation Mirages and F7s that needed replacement. Hence in the form of JFT you got very good BVR capable and now AESA radar equipped aircraft to replace all these old aircraft without breaking your bank



Who says Rafale can outgun J10C?

J10C PL15 can have same range as Rafale Meteor if not more. In the end it would be the support systems and environment in which J10C would be operating that would decide the outcome of any aerial conflict with Rafale

Makes sense.

Tactics and support packages seem to be the make-or-break factors.

 

[mudas777]

We should be setting some basic targets if J 10 is going to get manufactured in Pakistan, like complete manufacturing of fuselage with the TOT. May be few bells and whistles if China wants us to progress and also some baby steps towards the engine manufacturing.
Any news about the civilian planes manufacturing which made headlines a while back?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

This begs the following questions:
-what was the point of the JF17 if our adversary was already fielding/had placed orders for more advanced jets?
-what's the point of the J10C if the Rafale can outgun it?

very innocent question and I agree in its spirit I say there was no point getting F16 block 52s when Indians have SU30 MKI that are far superior ( on paper) to every jet in Pakistan.
I also extend it further to existance of Pakistan that is 1/5th of India.

in short my answer is that weapons comparisons are not in isolation under static conditions.

our war tactics and doctrines are not dictated by what indians acquire but basedon what platform best fits our strategy and best replaces the legacy planes.

confused? don't worry, I am with you.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

How cn just repainting overhauling can improve Pakistan's aviation industry unless china transfer technology to upgrade and installing Pakistan made subsystems to its J-10C.

For starters they allowed Pakistan to use it's own data link system for the jets... Let's see how much they are willing to contribute.... Pakistan knows it's weaknesses in R&D and is actively establishing more and more institutions that will help us in the future in this regard.

 

[R Wing]

very innocent question and I agree in its spirit I say there was no point getting F16 block 52s when Indians have SU30 MKI that are far superior ( on paper) to every jet in Pakistan.
I also extend it further to existance of Pakistan that is 1/5th of India.

in short my answer is that weapons comparisons are not in isolation under static conditions.

our war tactics and doctrines are not dictated by what indians acquire but basedon what platform best fits our strategy and best replaces the legacy planes.

confused? don't worry, I am with you.

hahaha.

I was, of course, playing the devil's advocate. I know why we got what we got - I was just opening up to thinking that tries to leap frog adversary capabilities qualitatively. Having fewer numbers of systems that are qualitatively inferior places a huge amount of emphasis on training, tactics, and support - areas that the PAF has excelled in. But how much of a gap can be made up in the BVR era of combat by non-technological factors? Time will tell.

I do think the PAF, because it isn't so deeply involved in politics, has focused on its professional mission better.

 

[GriffinsRule]

This begs the following questions:
-what was the point of the JF17 if our adversary was already fielding/had placed orders for more advanced jets?
-what's the point of the J10C if the Rafale can outgun it?

What kind of a childish question is that?

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

This begs the following questions:
-what was the point of the JF17 if our adversary was already fielding/had placed orders for more advanced jets?
-what's the point of the J10C if the Rafale can outgun it?

Let me explain it in a language that the Indian Defence Minister used for the Rafale induction.

Pakistan is acquiring the JF-17 Thunder Block-3 and J-10C so it can hit Indian targets without having to cross the Line of Control / International Border.

 

[R Wing]

What kind of a childish question is that?

Please see my future posts. I was replying to someone who had claimed that each of these jets is inferior to the Rafale. They weren't serious questions - relax.

 

[TNT]

Given the expensive maintenance and production of 5th gen fighters, 4.5+ gen fighters are thought to be used as hi low mix beyond 2050 in world air forces. If our planners see it the same way, a collaboration for J10 newer version can take place in the future, something similar to JF17.

 

[ghazwaehind786]

The goal is to let Pakistan domestically mass produce this plane with full domestic supply chain.

@PanzerKiel is this true?

 

[blain2]

I can see China transferring ToT for assembly to Pakistan, but would it transfer the production know-how for the key components like the WS-10 engines that took much hard work, money and time to perfect?

I don't think Pakistan is going for assembly here. ToT for own upgrades to J-10 are definitely a possibility. However, we have our hands busy with JF-17 program and taking on another aircraft assembly for a country like Pakistan is neither feasible nor does it make sense at this time given the relatively small numbers of aircraft being discussed. I think this will just be a standard purchase with upgrades for Pakistan (i.e. MB ejection seats etc.).

 

[Irfan Baloch]

hahaha.

I was, of course, playing the devil's advocate. I know why we got what we got - I was just opening up to thinking that tries to leap frog adversary capabilities qualitatively. Having fewer numbers of systems that are qualitatively inferior places a huge amount of emphasis on training, tactics, and support - areas that the PAF has excelled in. But how much of a gap can be made up in the BVR era of combat by non-technological factors? Time will tell.

I do think the PAF, because it isn't so deeply involved in politics, has focused on its professional mission better.

I wish it was that simple to understand. PAF is also affected indirectly because its an institution within the state of Pakistan.

I never agreed with insistence on single engine multi-role platforms and thought that a dedicated heavy air superiority fighter is the only one capable to ensure air superiority and protection to other jets and support aircrafts as well as our ground forces and Navy.

having the monetary freedom as well as access to the best that money can buy really enhances the country's ability to implement its defensive and offensive policy but realistically Pakistan's monetary and political options (in terms of willing suppliers) have been limited.

JF17 program in that sense has been a great success as it was aimed to replace Pakistani fleet of legacy fighters and provide force multiplication and capable sidekick to our limited front line F-16s our surprise support aircrafts with dedicated missions in electronic warfare have filled the gap of discrepancy we have against Indian front line fighters.
hopefully J-10C will provide what our front line fighters currently provide and some.
inclusion of these jets in isolation vs Indian current and future fleet composition is unremarkable but being integrated into the PAF doctrine with its little known and many unknown capabilities will leave the Indian adventure planners scratching their heads.

@PanzerKiel is this true?

we are just buying 25 jets. consider the price tag of 1 jet even at cost. and then reconsider the word "mass produce".

 

[Al_Muhannad]

China media claims J-10C fighter jets to upgrade Pakistan's defence industry​

• Mon, Feb 21 2022 08:09:22 PM

The recent surfacing of images of the J-10C fighter jets with the marking of the Pakistan Air Force on social media seems to have verified a widely-circulated hearsay that Pakistan ordered advanced J-10C fighter jets from China, Chinese state media reported.

While there has been no official confirmation about Pakistan's purchase of J-10C jets, Pakistani Interior Minister Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed announced at the end of last year that the Pakistan Air Force would perform a fly-past using 25 J-10C fighter jets to be imported from China during Pakistan's Republic Day parade on March 23, Global Times reported.

Unsurprisingly, much of the attention from the media has focused on how the latest acquisition of the supersonic jets could boost Pakistan's military and national defence.

While it is unknown whether the J-10C deal will involve supply chain transfer or other areas of cooperation, the jets' usage and maintenance will have the potential to accelerate an upgrade Pakistan's defense industry.

China and Pakistan have a long history of cooperation when it comes to joint development and manufacturing of the light fighter project. In fact, the JF-17 Thunder, also known as FC-1 Xiaolong, which was jointly developed by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group of China, has already become a good example as to how defense cooperation between the two friendly peoples has enhanced the manufacturing strength in Pakistan, Global Times reported.

After years of research and development partnership with Chinese peers, Pakistan's aviation industry has registered a considerable improvement. Now Pakistan has the capability to independently manufacture the Xiaolong fighter aircraft, which is uncommon among developing countries, the report claimed.

China media claims J-10C fighter jets to upgrade Pak defence industry

New Delhi, Feb 21 (IANS): The recent surfacing of images of the J-10C fighter jets with the marking of the Pakistan Air Force on social media seems to have verified a widely-circulated hearsay that Pakistan ordered advanced J-10C fighter jets from China, Chinese state media reported. While there...

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