PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[NA71]

I am sure our military planners know what they are doing and how they are doing. They have been doing it for 75 years now.

Good or bad..... Both included.

 

[Talon]

Cobras over the years..

 

[luciferdd]

I am sure our military planners know what they are doing and how they are doing. They have been doing it for 75 years now.

You mean T-129?

 

[Kaleem.61]

@waz I think thread is going somewhere else!

 

[Vapnope]

You mean T-129?

We faced sanctions to a point when F16s were going to get grounded and then same American gave us C5 and blk 52. So today T129s are scuttled, tomorrow you might see something.

 

[Air Wolf]

We faced sanctions to a point when F16s were going to get grounded and then same American gave us C5 and blk 52. So today T129s are scuttled, tomorrow you might see something.

You know very well why these were given.

Do you really want to keep enduring "carrot and stick" relationship forever? Is this the future you envision for Pakistan or should we grow out of it at some point in time?

 

[tphuang]

Think Pakistan is trying to walk a tight rope here. And this point needs to be understood. It's not rich like China where it can force the EU and US to talk to it, or take it seriously. At the same time, it would not want to be treated as an international pariah state like Iran or North Korea, and get disconnected from international monetary and trade systems. In spite of Pak-China bonhomie, Pakistan's biggest export destinations continue to be in the West. That's where pretty much most of its money coming from, alongside remittances from Pakistanis in the ME.

You can see how complex the situation has become for Pakistan, when in spite of huge pressure to not visit Russia, PM IK still went there, pretty much in the middle of a war - but at the same time, COAS was visiting EU to reassure the bloc.

There've been repercussions of the visit nonetheless, with the National Bank getting hit with a terror financing fine and PTI Gov being declared by Bloomberg as a failure in tackling Covid at home. In the coming months, Khan Gov will be targeted by more of such disinfo campaigns. But yet, economically it makes little sense for Pakistan to cut off or to antagonize the West. Even China would not approve of the same, it does not want another basket case of a country at its hand to help survive. If anything an economically sound, militarily confident but massively friendly Pak works far more in China's favor - all the same.

Now, between all of this, there's a very small role that military to military contacts cultivated over generations play and I doubt Pakistan would lose it just like that. But military has a sizable force now that's originated in China. There's no way, that China does not enjoy a massive voice inside GHQ.

There is a huge difference between security and non-security relationship. China's largest partners are America and the EU. There are a lot of desires in business community on both sides to keep the tight relationship going. But when it comes to security and geopolitics, there is a lot of alarm bells going off right now in US military about the growing Chinese power. America regards any country even somewhat close to China as a security concern. Do you have Huawei in your country? If you do, you are on the do not trust list. If Pakistan wants access to advanced US equipments, it would need to completely leave the Chinese sphere. Even with that, it would not have the same access to military export that India would have access to. At this point, US does not view India with anywhere near the same urgency it views China.

At some point, China will probably want to have greater access to military base in Pakistan like America has in its biggest allies (due in large part to Pakistan's location near the gulf). Since 2015, we've left the period of GWOT for America. Now, it's focus is solely on China. Pakistan in its current form is not viewed as an asset but as supporting the top peer competitor. So, just keep these things in mind.

Pakistan does not need to keep its current relationship with China. China will look for new partners if Pakistan is not willing to pick it ahead of America.

 

[帅的一匹]

Our Pakistani friends should understand that it’s the USA force you to choose side, not China.

 

[araz]

You know very well why these were given.

Do you really want to keep enduring "carrot and stick" relationship forever? Is this the future you envision for Pakistan or should we grow out of it at some point in time?

That was then. Please remember we did not have much in the way of choice-within our budget. Now we have choices so the same restrictions may/ may not apply( US end user agreements aside).
A

 

[Beast]

You know very well why these were given.

Do you really want to keep enduring "carrot and stick" relationship forever? Is this the future you envision for Pakistan or should we grow out of it at some point in time?

Precisely, today US say ok for parts for you, tomorrow is another story. US will purposely offer you engine for your airplane project and when all is ready for serial production. US will cut you off to sabotage your plan unless u become their slave to obey every of their order. It has proven so many times and we have idiot still stepping into such trap by suggesting getting US parts.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Let's get ready for a new series of J10 pics from tomorrow onwards....dragons coming home.

 

[Vapnope]

You know very well why these were given.

Do you really want to keep enduring "carrot and stick" relationship forever? Is this the future you envision for Pakistan or should we grow out of it at some point in time?

Nothing is free in this world and anyone who relies on other countries would always be facing some kind of carrot and stick.

 

[Aesterix]

Yeah, more and more people in China do not belive in this "iron" things, the Chinese Government shouldn't share core military tecs to anyone in this world. Business is business, nothing more or less.

It doesn't matter what ordinary Chinese believes in or doesn't.
Defence matters are government decision. For them, a powerful Pakistan neutralizes India, which is a threat for them too.

 

[Beast]

Nothing is free in this world and anyone who relies on other countries would always be facing some kind of carrot and stick.

I think you have mistaken China as some imperialism. Not every country behave like USA and western Europe.

 

[serenity]

It doesn't matter what ordinary Chinese believes in or doesn't.
Defence matters are government decision. For them, a powerful Pakistan neutralizes India, which is a threat for them too.

Actually India and China are not really threats to each other unless both sides want the other to be and act accordingly. We have himalayas between us. The only real close contact is Ladakh that is relatively more accessible than the real ranges of Himalayas because in Ladakh armor division and troops can actually still travel although extremely difficult.

Pakistan to China's geostrategic interest is simply in having more neutral to friendly nations we can work with. That is all. More overlapping interest and higher order friendship rather than the USA's "you must do this or else" kind of "friendship". That is all. This of course doesn't always go smoothly but the purpose is not to win this and gain a war buddy. When India and China went to war in 1962, Pakistan did nothing. When Pakistan and India were at war, China did nothing. No remaining side of the three will do much in real war when two are going at it. Pakistan being strong is good for China for another reason. So that the state and system that is friendly with China remains. That India does not take Pakistan hostage like the USA has taken Ukraine hostage. Minus of course the close ties that Ukraine and Russia traditionally have.

So no, Pakistan is not there for China to keep India down or to attack India for China. It is there as a means to reaching the Islamic world and to have geographic access too. It is there to have one more peoples and leadership who will hear our side of the story when every enemy will block their ears and shut their eyes from truth. A strong Pakistan means a Pakistan that is not going to fall to Indian influence and be lost as a friend to China. India one day may turn around and join the league of nations who are realistic, genuine despite western satanic propaganda, and while imperfect and have our heated disagreements, at least work towards our individual goods that do not come at the cost of others and then eventually work towards our common good. Enmity is a doomed philosophy. India right now is totally lost to Hindutva. Oh well. Time changes all things and the greatest evils that exist in the world hopefully will be removed. Almost all we hear and see (at least in English) are from deception. It has become even more clear with recent events.