Miffed Russia may stop arms sale to India

[thestringshredder]

Russia has questioned New Delhi’s fairness and transparency in awarding multi-billion dollar military contracts, and warned that it may have to reconsider doing business with India.

“We know what gimmicks are used to manipulate deals,” Russian ambassador to India Alexander Kadakin told HT in an exclusive interview, adding that his country may not bid for Indian military tenders in the future. “Sometimes, terms of tenders are crafted specifically to get the required results.”

The statement comes in the wake of Russia losing ground in the Indian arms market in the past few years, with international rivals winning tenders to supply modern fighter jets, mid-air refuellers, heavy-lift helicopters and attack choppers to the Indian military.

Russia’s current defence portfolio in India is worth $20 billion ( Rs. 1,08,000 crore).

But such outcomes have weakened the standing of India’s oldest and largest arms supplier.

Israel, the second largest defence supplier to India, has bagged business worth more than $10 billion ( Rs. 54,000 cr) in the past 10-12 years. The US, currently at number three, could overtake Israel if India chooses to place some follow-on orders for platforms already contracted.

Instead of tenders, Russia now wants to sell military equipment to India directly through government-to-government deals, Kadakin said.

India has ordered equipment worth $8 billion ( Rs. 43,200 crore) from the US in the past five years through Washington’s foreign military sales programme, a government-to-government method for selling US-built platforms.

“If we emerge number two, it doesn’t mean our platform is any worse. But it sends out that impression and causes damage to our reputation,” Kadakin said. He added that Russia had stood by India when strictest sanctions were imposed on the country after it conducted nuclear tests.

Kadakin acknowledged that India, being “an emerging superpower”, had the right to build defence ties with other countries, but was quick to point out that unlike “some newly-acquired partners”, Russia had never hesitated to transfer the most sensitive defence technologies to India.

“Name a country that will lease you a nuclear submarine. Will the Americans, the British or the French lease you such a platform?” Kadakin asked, referring to the Akula-II nuclear-powered attack submarine leased to India by Russia last year. “This is the unique character of our privileged strategic partnership. Your people have to realise this.

Link - Miffed Russia may stop arms sale to India - Hindustan Times

 

[janon]

Aren't diplomats supposed to speak diplomatically? Why is the Russian ambassador whining like a child? Some of his statements are so self defeating. Consider this, for example:

Instead of tenders, Russia now wants to sell military equipment to India directly through government-to-government deals, Kadakin said.

That sounds like he is admitting that Russian hardware cannot win in open tenders, so they will only go for govt to govt deals. It just gives the impression that they are afraid of competition. Their external affairs ministry (or whatever they call it) should find a better person for the job, one who doesn't make his country's products look bad.

“Name a country that will lease you a nuclear submarine. Will the Americans, the British or the French lease you such a platform?” Kadakin asked, referring to the Akula-II nuclear-powered attack submarine leased to India by Russia last year. “This is the unique character of our privileged strategic partnership. Your people have to realise this.

We realize it, and that is why we only approach Russians for things like nuclear subs. In fact Russia should take advantage of that priviledged relationship, and sell more sensitive stuff to India. Build and sell more Akulas to India. Build and sell S-400s to us. Help us with an AESA radar for our Tejas. There are so many things they could help us with, that we are willing to pay for. Why should they complain about SOME deals going to other countries, and that too through fair tendering?

As for the headline - if Russia stops selling arms to India, that would be the end of their arms industry. The only way that Russian forces themselves can buy some platforms is when India buys it first, and brings down production costs. Mig-35 for instance. RuAF could not afford to buy it, because India did not. They bought the mig-29K after India did. They are developing a 5th gen fighter because we are footing half the bill. As it is, China is eating into their market share in emerging economies, and smaller nations. If they lose their single biggest customer, their arms industry would go the way of the dodo.

Both countries need each other for defence trade and co-operation. They are going to be India's largest supplier for a long time to come, and we are going to be their biggest customer for a long time to come. Why all this whining for losing a deal or two?

 

[selvan33]

well he is crying like a baby. but we need quality to protect our nation. we don't want to buy a weapon just to satisfy others. if russia stopped its arm selling to india,then that will be a big loss for russia not only in business but also strategically. and that will affect india little bit but not that much because all the other nations are eyeing indian defence market and especially US because they want to counter china which is not going to happen without india. And for russia still we are your biggest customer,if you really want to help us, give aesa radar technology to our tejas, give some more nuc.subs which we are ready to buy, deliver the products in right time.,otherwise your drowsy apathy will continue in indian defence market. but india also should not forget any help provided by russia.

 

[Peregrine]

This reminds me of the time when french refused to sell weapons and avionics to Pakistan for JF-17 and most of the Indians dubbed it as an "Indian diplomacy success "......... so what should we call this... Not saying that Pakistan has a role in this, but can certainly exploit the situation in its favour. If pakistans loss was Indias gain then Indias loss can be Pakistans gain......P.S those who dont understand the basic principles of International Relations and business, kindly dont bother quoting my post.

 

[Hulk]

This reminds me of the time when french refused to sell weapons and avionics to Pakistan for JF-17 and most of the Indians dubbed it as an "Indian diplomacy success "......... so what should we call this... Not saying that Pakistan has a role in this, but can certainly exploit the situation in its favour. If pakistans loss was Indias gain then Indias loss can be Pakistans gain......P.S those who dont understand the basic principles of International Relations and business, kindly dont bother quoting my post.

We call this Pakistani getting excited for nothing. Given that we do significant business with them, things will not change much other than someone getting frustrated. The maximum Pakistan can go is 2 billion $ a year and minimum India will give them 5 billion $ a year. Pakistan is not a key player here, how much ever you would like to dream.

Just sensational news with nothing much changing.
Russia is expecting that we will not diversify, which is not right expectation. We have a good balance and lot of the hardware is still Russian, so what are they complaining about.

 

[rcrmj]

lol,the russians are getting desperate and throwing tantrum,

“If we emerge number two, it doesn’t mean our platform is any worse. But it sends out that impression and causes damage to our reputation,”

yes it is, if you emerged number two it definitly 'means' yours are inferior to number one````

India is in the position to aquire their defence products from tenders' based on their stuffs' price, advancement and sophistication..

i guess the russians have already forgoten a decade ago the reasons why PLAAF stopped buying Su-27SKs from Russian and started making it domestically``?

let me put in this way, low quality manufacturing, delayed parts supply, awful sales services and stone age avionics`

 

[peep]

lol,the russians are getting desperate and throwing tantrum,



yes it is, if you emerged number two it definitly 'means' yours are inferior to number one````

India is in the position to aquire their defence products from tenders' based on their stuffs' price, advancement and sophistication..

i guess the russians have already forgoten a decade ago the reasons why PLAAF stopped buying Su-27SKs from Russian and started making it domestically``?

let me put in this way, low quality manufacturing, delayed parts supply, awful sales services and stone age avionics`

wouldn't agree on this !!

 

[selvan33]

lol,the russians are getting desperate and throwing tantrum,



yes it is, if you emerged number two it definitly 'means' yours are inferior to number one````
India is in the position to aquire their defence products from tenders' based on their stuffs' price, advancement and sophistication..

i guess the russians have already forgoten a decade ago the reasons why PLAAF stopped buying Su-27SKs from Russian and started making it domestically``?

let me put in this way, low quality manufacturing, delayed parts supply, awful sales services and stone age avionics`

i agree with you but except this.

 

[Peregrine]

We call this Pakistani getting excited for nothing. Given that we do significant business with them, things will not change much other than someone getting frustrated. The maximum Pakistan can go is 2 billion $ a year and minimum India will give them 5 billion $ a year. Pakistan is not a key player here, how much ever you would like to dream.

Just sensational news with nothing much changing.
Russia is expecting that we will not diversify, which is not right expectation. We have a good balance and lot of the hardware is still Russian, so what are they complaining about.

As usual 'denial' seems to be your best defence..... Its pointless to argue...I had explicitly mentioned "people ignorant to the principles of International Relations, dont bother quoting my post" and yet you did...... You believe, just because you were friends with them once....so things will stay the same as always....International Relations are guided by interests and not the money.......and if you think so then I have no intentions of setting you straight......Enjoy your La-La land....while Pakistani and Russian realtions warm up.
Terminal X: Russian Air Force Chief visits Pakistan Air Force Headquarters
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Not saying that they will start selling us the hardware rightaway.....but they have identified the scope of our mutual interests.

 

[cirr]

Let India buy expensive western toys and face sanction in time of war。

Or India can try to have its own comprehensive defence industry，not a shoddy integrator or assembler。

 

[peep]

As usual 'denial' seems to be your best defence..... Its pointless to argue...I had explicitly mentioned "people ignorant to the principles of International Relations, dont bother quoting my post" and yet you did...... You believe, just because you were friends with them once....so things will stay the same as always....International Relations are guided by interests and not the money.......and if you think so then I have no intentions of setting you straight......Enjoy your La-La land....while Pakistani and Russian realtions warm up.
Terminal X: Russian Air Force Chief visits Pakistan Air Force Headquarters
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Not saying that they will start selling us the hardware rightaway.....but they have identified the scope of our mutual interests.

A russian Air Force Chief visit ? LMAO ! Don't parade your stupidity here. Dont make me remind you how Putin was on a supposed "strategic Visit" to pakistan which never happened in first place

Dont make me rub salts on your wounds !

 

[Hulk]

As usual 'denial' seems to be your best defence..... Its pointless to argue...I had explicitly mentioned "people ignorant to the principles of International Relations, dont bother quoting my post" and yet you did...... You believe, just because you were friends with them once....so things will stay the same as always....International Relations are guided by interests and not the money.......and if you think so then I have no intentions of setting you straight......Enjoy your La-La land....while Pakistani and Russian realtions warm up.
Terminal X: Russian Air Force Chief visits Pakistan Air Force Headquarters
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Not saying that they will start selling us the hardware rightaway.....but they have identified the scope of our mutual interests.

Well you drew your conclusions based on my high level reasoning. We Indians always say that international relationship are driven by interest and not by friendship, so we are not counting on friendship. I am just saying that while some things can be said emotionally but actions are driven based on interest.
1) India still gives Russia good business on defense and no one will just walk out because they did not like certain things.
Russia had to understand, we are paying hence we will choose what we get.
2) Pakistan does not have enough to counter what India offers Russia and hence cannot change our relationship.
Opposite is however still true, we can influence the deals you try to get from them.

This is hard truth as of now.

 

[bigzgvr4]

who ever buys russian equipment in large numbers is a tool even chinese made ak-47 has better accuraccy then russian ak-47 how i know it because firing both after 100 rounds chinese had a tighter group and russian was flying over the target at 100m because of the barrel heat up look at the syrian army Get man handeled by Rebels and all they have is russian equipment even the RUSSIAN radars/sams did'nt detect the f-16 when Israel bombed it, CHina is Smart it buys in Low Quantity and Do the Research and Improves it make it reliable thats why every thing in the world is made in china From Electronics to shoes to Plates you eat in and furniture tires etc,

Please Dont Loose Russia/France as the weapons producer for india and stop buying from USA its in the best interest of Pakistan
thank you come again

 

[SpArK]

Last week Russia announced helping in 3 frigates, this week they are marketing Mig-35, yesterday they said they are training Indian pilots, their minister was here celebrating Mig-21 anniversary etc etc..

But its a delight to see that "craving" inside a few who wants Russia to stay away from India.

Every negative vibe from Russian quarters makes them skip a heartbeat and go awwww.

 

[rcrmj]

wouldn't agree on this !!

do you know one mysterious member PuPu from CD (³¬´ó¾üÊ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÍøÕ¾|×îÑÏËàµÄ¾üÊÂÍøÕ¾ - CJDBY.net), the very person who leaked J-20, J-31, J-15 and many more projects at least half decade before 'official appearance' of them respectively?

and it turned out he is actually one of the insiders, nd knew inside out of the whole process of China importing Su-27 since the very begining`

and he is also the official translator of the book 'NAAS, Sunset in the KnAAPO' a narrative book, a very detailed account of reasons, private talks, inside tradings and even dramatic spyings of the whole processes.

pupu says the PLAAF were unhappy about the plane especially the quality, radar and the avionics