Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[Mithridates]

There are rumours that USA helped Iran strike its base to make Iran appear good in front of its people as well as avoid USA casualty. The rumours say that the attack on USA bases were staged and USA already had warning and evacuated the structures and kept its soldiers underground. Some even say that Iran eliminated Soleimani to gain favour with Arabs & negotiate withdrawal of sanctions by asking USA to kill him and then stage manage a retaliation to pretend to be angered.

There is very little reason to say that Iran actually can hit accurately on its own without any foreign assistance as semiconductor is lacking. INS guidance requires semiconductor technology to have accuracy.

lol

 

[TheImmortal]

IRGC is one of least corrupt institutions in Iran & just because fools like you have been brainwashed to believe BBC & VOA lies doesn't make it true!

 

[aryobarzan]

I hate to express personal views on the forum but I do that this time ...General Hajizadeh and Qalibaf are two of the most competent Iranians I have followed throughout the years...They are always the subject of smear campaigns because they are men who "walk the walk" instead of just "talk", but I understand it is my view.I wish both of them good luck.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Is it a case of pretend reading comprehension? I am stating what you said couple of weeks ago when you did not even know the missiles used in the strike. You claimed it was a 300km ranged missile.

I claimed that it was Fateh type missile. Iran could have increased the range by 100 odd km but what I said still is true.

Except Iran has used missiles to hit targets accurately in practise. The only argument you have here is some conspiracy claims these were all staged. I am sure the Kurds that were vaporised by Iranian attack last year were also staged. As for claims regarding semiconductor, you have 0 evidence to prove Iran's military is not producing them. Just like you're clueless regarding INS systems being used in Iranian missiles, you're clueless regarding other aspects.

The Iranian strike on ISIS were said to be way off. Only the Kurdish ones struck in 60-80km range were struck with accuracy. There is 0 evidence of Iran striking 300-400km target with accuracy. Of course, CEP of 100m is still almost accurate but not very accurate.

I already explained this to you last time but you're pretending to have amnesia. Both of those missiles had INS systems. Iran has been making INS system for accurate missiles for years.

Fateh-110 (possible 313) IMU system.
*Using fiber optic gyroscopes:

Iran even displayed its unique fighter plane calling it 5th generation one. That doesn't mean Iran actually has that Technology. Unless Iran has semiconductor Technology, it is impossible to have accurate INS. Now it's may be hiding it's semiconductor Technology as I don't know all Iranian state secrets. But there are no known semiconductor fabrication facilities in Iran. Activities like silicon processing etc are not very easy to hide, though the Fab itself is easy to hide

 

[Hack-Hook]

The fab used is same for military and civilian goods but the architecture is very different. This involves derating or leaving spaces between rows/columns of transistors in chips. This menas that a chip which could have workd in 2GhZ clock rate will now be working on 0.5GhZ or 1GhZ as lot of spacing is given to reduce short circuit. The packaging is also made more rigid and insulating. But that alone is not enough. It also requries derating the semiconductor in such a way that the semiconductor does not short circuit at high temperatures.


Packaging is not a big technology. Fabrication is the real technology. Packaging is a simpler job and doesn't need the precision needed to make ICs to the scale of nanometres or micrometer. Iran never had any fabrication facility.


Selling fabrication technology is too big a risk which someone will take only if there is a major strategic reward. What does Iran have to offer China to be able to buy such a huge technology device? Moreover, you can't buy any semiconductor, especially derated ones used in military items.


When did I say that USA was not struck by Iran? I am only saying that Iran used GPS or some other guidance system which is otherwise unreliable in war time. The real accuracy of missile is in using INS. Using cheap GPS trackers is not really a display of accuracy.



There are rumours that USA helped Iran strike its base to make Iran appear good in front of its people as well as avoid USA casualty. The rumours say that the attack on USA bases were staged and USA already had warning and evacuated the structures and kept its soldiers underground. Some even say that Iran eliminated Soleimani to gain favour with Arabs & negotiate withdrawal of sanctions by asking USA to kill him and then stage manage a retaliation to pretend to be angered.

There is very little reason to say that Iran actually can hit accurately on its own without any foreign assistance as semiconductor is lacking. INS guidance requires semiconductor technology to have accuracy.

you seems to think for a chips a country need factories asbig as TSMC , youare wrong for military purpose you can fit what you need in an apartement in a base .
these are the devices

in my room you can put two of these Merit MG45 devices
and you can buy them by using front companies

I claimed that it was Fateh type missile. Iran could have increased the range by 100 odd km but what I said still is true.

the problem we increased the range of Fateh Type missile up to 1000km and they still had the same accuracy .

The Iranian strike on ISIS were said to be way off. Only the Kurdish ones struck in 60-80km range were struck with accuracy. There is 0 evidence of Iran striking 300-400km target with accuracy. Of course, CEP of 100m is still almost accurate but not very accurate.

it said way off because the fools on the net taught the building on the ground was target while Iranian commander explained later that the real target was under the ground . and also some fools don't get the concept that we separate warhead from the body of the missile , they see the body is fallen in the middle of desert and say hey look the missile didn't hit the target.

 

[Smarana Mitra]

you seems to think for a chips a country need factories asbig as TSMC , youare wrong for military purpose you can fit what you need in an apartement in a base .
these are the devices

I know that the machines are small but the problem is with the other infrastructure like manpower, silicon processing etc. All of the infrastructure needed to make a fab is big enough to not be concealed. This is unless Iran can get some country to give fabrication machines. This is highly unlikely as Iran has nothing that can persuade any country to give away such a strategic asset. So, in the most unlikely scenario that Iran gets the machine as import along with needed tools, Iran can have semiconductor fab. However, most likely none has given fab machines to Iran and hence Iran does not have semiconductor fab.

it said way off because the fools on the net taught the building on the ground was target while Iranian commander explained later that the real target was under the ground . and also some fools don't get the concept that we separate warhead from the body of the missile , they see the body is fallen in the middle of desert and say hey look the missile didn't hit the target.

It is possible both ways. There is significant deficiency of data and hence one needs to check whether the INS guidance accuracy is really great without external guidance like GPS. I can't directly state that Iranian missile is inaccurate but I can only say that it is most likely to be inaccurate

 

[Hack-Hook]

I know that the machines are small but the problem is with the other infrastructure like manpower, silicon processing etc. All of the infrastructure needed to make a fab is big enough to not be concealed. This is unless Iran can get some country to give fabrication machines. This is highly unlikely as Iran has nothing that can persuade any country to give away such a strategic asset. So, in the most unlikely scenario that Iran gets the machine as import along with needed tools, Iran can have semiconductor fab. However, most likely none has given fab machines to Iran and hence Iran does not have semiconductor fab.

as i said these machine are there and you can buy them its not like nuke tech that are state controlled so your concerns here are not founded . and as i said all come to the scale of your operation a big facility will be large but a small facility that produce 2000-3000 chip/month even more can be hidden very easily as for that amount you don't need that much silicon and you can perfectly produce far more than enough chip for what you need for your military

It is possible both ways. There is significant deficiency of data and hence one needs to check whether the INS guidance accuracy is really great without external guidance like GPS. I can't directly state that Iranian missile is inaccurate but I can only say that it is most likely to be inaccurate

evidence point that its accurate , for example in our missile tests we point a camera to a tent and well after test let just say there won't be any tent left

 

[Smarana Mitra]

as i said these machine are there and you can buy them its not like nuke tech that are state controlled so your concerns here are not founded . and as i said all come to the scale of your operation a big facility will be large but a small facility that produce 2000-3000 chip/month even more can be hidden very easily as for that amount you don't need that much silicon and you can perfectly produce far more than enough chip for what you need for your military

The machine is always small but the infrastructure needed to do R&D to develop a machine for fabrication is huge. It is more difficult to make semiconductor than to make a nuclear bomb. Nukes were made in 1940s when there was no computer or automated precision machines. So, semiconductor technology is more classified than even nuclear bomb. A state may give nuclear technology but will not give semiconductor technology.

evidence point that its accurate , for example in our missile tests we point a camera to a tent and well after test let just say there won't be any tent left

Can you show me the evidence or source? I am doubting mainly because I have enough knowledge to say semiconductor is the key to precision and I don't think Iran has it. So, I am being skeptical.

 

[Ich]

Iran produced 90 nm 32 Bit CPU more then 10 years ago. So if there were normal development then Iran should be at least at 32 nm by now. Also Iran can use the RISC-V design what is open source and free. A lot of super computers use RISC, mostly ARM. But ARM costs licence whereas RISC-V is free.

 

[Hack-Hook]

The machine is always small but the infrastructure needed to do R&D to develop a machine for fabrication is huge. It is more difficult to make semiconductor than to make a nuclear bomb. Nukes were made in 1940s when there was no computer or automated precision machines. So, semiconductor technology is more classified than even nuclear bomb. A state may give nuclear technology but will not give semiconductor technology.

you are wrong here they are not state controlled technology and the size of support facility depends on the size of production line
by the way here you can see which countries have industrial scale fabs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants
USA, Argentina, Australia, Italy, Belarus, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, Costa Rica, Czech Republic, England, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Netherlands,
Northern Ireland, North Korea, Philippines, Poland, Russia, Singapore, South Korea, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, UAE, UK.
add to that the list of countries who previously had FABs but closed them due to economical point of view
Spain, Serbia, Scotland, Ukraine

41 country well not a very exclusive club .you see every body can build a fab not that hard even north Korea or Belarus have one the technology is not state controlled , the hard part is producing lithography devices that print those chips and not every body can make them but as I said those device can easily bought from the market or even second hand.

by the way do you knew we designed this in 2006 our first SPARC processor ?

 

[Shams313]

The machine is always small but the infrastructure needed to do R&D to develop a machine for fabrication is huge. It is more difficult to make semiconductor than to make a nuclear bomb. Nukes were made in 1940s when there was no computer or automated precision machines. So, semiconductor technology is more classified than even nuclear bomb. A state may give nuclear technology but will not give semiconductor technology.


Can you show me the evidence or source? I am doubting mainly because I have enough knowledge to say semiconductor is the key to precision and I don't think Iran has it. So, I am being skeptical.

Iranian designed micro controller...

And military grade developments r not publically announced.. secrecy is essential at least for iran....

 

[Smarana Mitra]

Iran produced 90 nm 32 Bit CPU more then 10 years ago. So if there were normal development then Iran should be at least at 32 nm by now. Also Iran can use the RISC-V design what is open source and free. A lot of super computers use RISC, mostly ARM. But ARM costs licence whereas RISC-V is free.

Design is one thing, fabrication is another. India has designed 22nm chipsets too but can only fabricate 180nm in mass scale. Iran may have designed chips but not fabricated them.

Iran doing 90nm fabrication 10 years back is a unlikely. The timeline of fabrication technology is:
2000-2001: 180nm
2002-2003: 135nm
2004-2005: 90nm
2006-2007: 65nm
2008-2009: 45nm
2010-2011: 32nm
2012-2013: 22nm
2014-present: 14nm

10nm is still under development while companies like Samsung wrongly brands 14nm as 10nm by using different measurement parameter. But real 10nm of intel is not yet out.

Iran having 90nm technology in 2009-2010 is unlikely as only USA and its minions (Korea, Taiwan) had the technology. USA was leading by at least 10 years ahead of nearest rival of China & Russia. How can Iran get so advanced technology then?

Iranian designed micro controller...

And military grade developments r not publically announced.. secrecy is essential at least for iran....

I can't understand a word of what they are saying. I have only one question- whether Iran manufactured the chipset in Iran or only designed it in Iran and then got it manufactured by someone else in limited quantity?

Of course, Iran won't announce all military technology. But everyone is looking for semiconductor technology with Iran as semiconductor technology is more important than even nuclear technology. Someone will notice if Iran is indeed capable of making chipsets. Though, it is not necessary that they will disclose it in public.

Here is an article about Iran designing CPU but getting it manufactured in Taiwan:
https://www.eetimes.com/iran-develops-32-bit-processor/

Are you sure you are not speaking of this?

 

[Arminkh]

Design is one thing, fabrication is another. India has designed 22nm chipsets too but can only fabricate 180nm in mass scale. Iran may have designed chips but not fabricated them.

Iran doing 90nm fabrication 10 years back is a unlikely. The timeline of fabrication technology is:
2000-2001: 180nm
2002-2003: 135nm
2004-2005: 90nm
2006-2007: 65nm
2008-2009: 45nm
2010-2011: 32nm
2012-2013: 22nm
2014-present: 14nm

10nm is still under development while companies like Samsung wrongly brands 14nm as 10nm by using different measurement parameter. But real 10nm of intel is not yet out.

Iran having 90nm technology in 2009-2010 is unlikely as only USA and its minions (Korea, Taiwan) had the technology. USA was leading by at least 10 years ahead of nearest rival of China & Russia. How can Iran get so advanced technology then?

I can't understand a word of what they are saying. I have only one question- whether Iran manufactured the chipset in Iran or only designed it in Iran and then got it manufactured by someone else in limited quantity?

Of course, Iran won't announce all military technology. But everyone is looking for semiconductor technology with Iran as semiconductor technology is more important than even nuclear technology. Someone will notice if Iran is indeed capable of making chipsets. Though, it is not necessary that they will disclose it in public.

Here is an article about Iran designing CPU but getting it manufactured in Taiwan:
https://www.eetimes.com/iran-develops-32-bit-processor/

Are you sure you are not speaking of this?

Key to narrower and finer circuit printing is advances in lithography that has enabled decreasing the minimum width of printing from 180nm to 14nm. All Iran needed was to get its hands on one of those lithography machines and it could start producing chips with 14nm accuracy.

 

[Ich]

Iran doing 90nm fabrication 10 years back is a unlikely. The timeline of fabrication technology is:
2000-2001: 180nm
2002-2003: 135nm
2004-2005: 90nm
2006-2007: 65nm
2008-2009: 45nm
2010-2011: 32nm
2012-2013: 22nm
2014-present: 14nm

1. 90 nm was 1988. Comercial use starts later at 2002/2003
"A 90 nm silicon MOSFET was fabricated by Iranian engineer Ghavam Shahidi (later IBM director) with D.A. Antoniadis and H.I. Smith at MIT in 1988. The device was fabricated using X-ray lithography.[1]"

2. In 2006 Iran Parsé Semiconductor Co. build Sparc 32 Bit processor Leon in 180 nm, then Leon3 in 130 nm and some years later a 32 Bit processor in 90 nm.

Edit:

Hmm, i cant found the 90 nm cpu in Inet. But i know that i saw a story about the 300 mm Wafer production line and the 90 nm litho for that Wafer in Fars News many years ago. So yes, maybe not more then 10 years 90 nm.

 

[Ich]

Edit:

10nm is still under development while companies like Samsung wrongly brands 14nm as 10nm by using different measurement parameter. But real 10nm of intel is not yet out.

Well, who cares about Intel if AMD sell 7nm cpu and gpu?