Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[Type59]

For some reason i think he is a indian...i donno if anyone already know his nationality..
But lately i found several Indian site doing propaganda business against iran and openly supporting israel... although arabs also supports Israel...

Rss ideology for you. Despite Iran being friendly with india, rss inspired population see Iran as an enemy. Does not take a genius to figure out why.

 

[Shams313]

Rss ideology for you. Despite Iran being friendly with india, rss inspired population see Iran as an enemy. Does not take a genius to figure out why.

It depends....but most of those rss exposing their true nature recently, openly offensive against muslim community and massive violation, their so called nationalism...
And their love for israel already reached another level...

 

[PeeD]

If Dezful doesn’t have a thrust vectoring system then how can it peform anti-BM maneuvers?

Like I said earlier your claim that NK’s Missile advanced capabilities are a result of advancement in Iran’s domestic program was misled. NK has been developing Missiles far longer than Iran and was the one who gave Iran their first SCUDs.

Like I said the ability for NK to build an Islander like Missile and also use a more modern Russian engine cluster for it’s ICBM program point to a nation stage such as China or Russia or potentially rogue former scientists of either country helping NK.

Iran has NOT demonstrated knowledge in either product.

The whole Ghaem Missile and 90 ton solid fuel engines are at this point as real as a German wunderweapon. Briefly seen and with little intelligence they are just rumors. They may never seen mass production.

Such missiles fly at quasi-ballistic depressed trajectories. Apogee is at 50km where they are able to manouver with their control surfaces. They just get quite hot by doing this one of the engineering hurdles. The Iskander also has Bernie thrusters as said.

As for North Korea: Sure they are real players in the missile field. The choose to model their missile around the Iskander, it is no copy of an Iranian system.
However both countries share certain achievements. So if their Iskander copy does aerodynamic breaking manouver then Zolfaghar likely does too in anti-ship mode.
Iran just has more manpower and money than North Korea. In total North Korea likely got tech. transfer on their solids, most likely from Iran. Remember: when their first ICBM was paraded, it was a Iranian attached next to their leader.

Iran's solid fuel ICBM program is clear, no wunderwaffe. It's a political issue for Iran.

 

[TheImmortal]

Such missiles fly at quasi-ballistic depressed trajectories. Apogee is at 50km where they are able to manouver with their control surfaces. They just get quite hot by doing this one of the engineering hurdles. The Iskander also has Bernie thrusters as said.

As for North Korea: Sure they are real players in the missile field. The choose to model their missile around the Iskander, it is no copy of an Iranian system.
However both countries share certain achievements. So if their Iskander copy does aerodynamic breaking manouver then Zolfaghar likely does too in anti-ship mode.
Iran just has more manpower and money than North Korea. In total North Korea likely got tech. transfer on their solids, most likely from Iran. Remember: when their first ICBM was paraded, it was a Iranian attached next to their leader.

Iran's solid fuel ICBM program is clear, no wunderwaffe. It's a political issue for Iran.

Again I disput your information earlier generations of Fateh were quasi-ballistic. But it is believed that later generations are ballistic and exit the atmosphere.

I don’t believe that a Dezful can accurately evade just on control surfaces alone without the assistance of thrust vectors or vernier thrusters. This would lead the missile to have accuracy issues during evasion.

Again on one hand your saying Zolfghar does not follow NK Iskander in evasion technology maneuvers then on the other hand your saying it does. So which is it? Unless it has thrusters (which you said it does not) it cannot do the same move.

And Iranians being involved in military parades is nothing new. Iranian scientists have been there for nuclear tests as well, it doesn’t mean that Iran taught NK how to do the test. NK officials show up to iranian military tests and parades.

You are using conjecture to make a lot of references, which have little to no evidence (that you are willing to share) to back it up. At this point you are throwing out theories with no basis.

 

[PeeD]

Again I disput your information earlier generations of Fateh were quasi-ballistic. But it is believed that later generations are ballistic and exit the atmosphere

Other way around: Early Fateh were likely ballistic missiles and evolved to quasi-ballistic ones.

I don’t believe that a Dezful can accurately evade just on control surfaces alone without the assistance of thrust vectors or vernier thrusters. This would lead the missile to have accuracy issues during evasion

It can, the North Korean Iskander did it too. The thrust hectoring system is only active on the first 1/4 - 1/6 of the total flight time.
It can even better due to the larger control surfaces.

Again on one hand your saying Zolfghar does not follow NK Iskander in evasion technology maneuvers then on the other hand your saying it does. So which is it? Unless it has thrusters (which you said it does not) it cannot do the same move.

It does, but they are different.

And Iranians being involved in military parades is nothing new. Iranian scientists have been there for nuclear tests as well, it doesn’t mean that Iran taught NK how to do the test. NK officials show up to iranian military tests and parades.

First and last time a foreign attached was standing with Kim on the podium.
First time North Korea presented their ICBM. Draw your own conclusions.

You are using conjecture to make a lot of references, which have little to no evidence (that you are willing to share) to back it up. At this point you are throwing out theories with no basis.

Connect the open source dots I mentioned. That thing being no ICBM is impossible at this point.

 

[arashkamangir]

Again I disput your information earlier generations of Fateh were quasi-ballistic. But it is believed that later generations are ballistic and exit the atmosphere.

I don’t believe that a Dezful can accurately evade just on control surfaces alone without the assistance of thrust vectors or vernier thrusters. This would lead the missile to have accuracy issues during evasion.

Again on one hand your saying Zolfghar does not follow NK Iskander in evasion technology maneuvers then on the other hand your saying it does. So which is it? Unless it has thrusters (which you said it does not) it cannot do the same move.

And Iranians being involved in military parades is nothing new. Iranian scientists have been there for nuclear tests as well, it doesn’t mean that Iran taught NK how to do the test. NK officials show up to iranian military tests and parades.

You are using conjecture to make a lot of references, which have little to no evidence (that you are willing to share) to back it up. At this point you are throwing out theories with no basis.

no, just no. Control surfaces are all you need to for any evasive maneuvers. In the case where there is thrust availability, course correction can be applied and that is an independent issue from vernier, thrust vectoring and control surfaces.

 

[TheImmortal]

Other way around: Early Fateh were likely ballistic missiles and evolved to quasi-ballistic ones.

The first Fateh-110 was based partly off of Zezal-2 artillery rocket with a guidance system. Hence why they flew quasi ballistic paths.


Unlike the other members of the Fateh-110 family, which are often described as quasi-ballistic missiles, the Zolfaghar flies a true ballistic trajectory.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fateh-110

I will try to find a better source later.

To expect a 700KM-1000KM missile to be able to be quasi ballistic on a 50KM apogee doesn’t make sense to me. NK Iskander is because it’s range is similar to old Fateh-110’s.

But I disagree that Dezful and zolfghar can be quasi especially with the terminal velocity they have.

 

[PeeD]

The first Fateh-110 was based partly off of Zezal-2 artillery rocket with a guidance system. Hence why they flew quasi ballistic paths.


Unlike the other members of the Fateh-110 family, which are often described as quasi-ballistic missiles, the Zolfaghar flies a true ballistic trajectory.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fateh-110

I will try to find a better source later.

To expect a 700KM-1000KM missile to be able to be quasi ballistic on a 50KM apogee doesn’t make sense to me. NK Iskander is because it’s range is similar to old Fateh-110’s.

But I disagree that Dezful and zolfghar can be quasi especially with the terminal velocity they have.

Let me clarify something here:

Depressed trajectory / quasi-ballistic missiles is the difficult goal to master.
These sacrifice range and payload performance and need much more (thermal heating, actuator performance requirements) to become feasible. A ballistic missile like the SCUD or V-2 needs no solutions for those issues, it simply goes ballistic. Intuition also told me back in the days that leaving the atmosphere and re-enter it would be a much larger achievement than flying a depressed one at the edge of the atmosphere... but the truth is the opposite.
The art of the Iskander and why it became so famous is such a depressed trajectory.

The Fateh family is a very elegant solution from Irans missile school and is a real missile, not just a guided rocket. But from the Zolfaghar onward it likely is fully on pair with the Iskander in terms of maneuvering and anti-ABM solutions.

The Zolfaghar/Dezful CAN fly quasi-ballistic if a ABM system is present, like all other missiles they would sacrifice range to achieve that. The key to a carrier-killer variant of them is exactly this capability: depressed trajectory approach, aero-breaking, vertical 90° dive with activated Fathe Mobin like seeker with random high-G maneuvering in order to neutralize Aegis ABM system. That's probably the monster the U.S Navy fears Iran has.
The North Korean Iskander flew 690km, not above 50km altitude to make a sudden 90° vertical dive with maneuvering. Compared to it, the Zolfaghar/Dezful have even higher maneuvering capability.
The North Korean missile saves one critical subsystem to achieve that operation (vernier thruster), Irans Zolfaghar/Dezful saves two critical subsystems.

 

[TheImmortal]

Let me clarify something here:

Depressed trajectory / quasi-ballistic missiles is the difficult goal to master.
These sacrifice range and payload performance and need much more (thermal heating, actuator performance requirements) to become feasible. A ballistic missile like the SCUD or V-2 needs no solutions for those issues, it simply goes ballistic. Intuition also told me back in the days that leaving the atmosphere and re-enter it would be a much larger achievement than flying a depressed one at the edge of the atmosphere... but the truth is the opposite.
The art of the Iskander and why it became so famous is such a depressed trajectory.

The Fateh family is a very elegant solution from Irans missile school and is a real missile, not just a guided rocket. But from the Zolfaghar onward it likely is fully on pair with the Iskander in terms of maneuvering and anti-ABM solutions.

The Zolfaghar/Dezful CAN fly quasi-ballistic if a ABM system is present, like all other missiles they would sacrifice range to achieve that. The key to a carrier-killer variant of them is exactly this capability: depressed trajectory approach, aero-breaking, vertical 90° dive with activated Fathe Mobin like seeker with random high-G maneuvering in order to neutralize Aegis ABM system. That's probably the monster the U.S Navy fears Iran has.
The North Korean Iskander flew 690km, not above 50km altitude to make a sudden 90° vertical dive with maneuvering. Compared to it, the Zolfaghar/Dezful have even higher maneuvering capability.
The North Korean missile saves one critical subsystem to achieve that operation (vernier thruster), Irans Zolfaghar/Dezful saves two critical subsystems.

View attachment 571097

If your saying by default Dezful/Zolfghar are ballistic missiles but upon intial launch can be changed to a “quasi” trajectory. Then the question is what is the true range of Dezful/Zolfghar?

Because US intelligence has never confirmed that Dezful or Zolfghar test has down complicated maneuvers. So either US intelligence has never announced it or Iran has never done it during a test.

Here is the trajectory the NK Iskander took

https://twitter.com/x/status/1154580704220581888

In a mere 10-15 years NK has gone from a “joke” in Missile testing (constant failures of soviet era missiles including Khorramshahr like missile and Tapedong) to nearly matching Russia in ABM maneuver technology.

Meanwhile since Sejil-2 Missile launch in 2008 and Tehrani’s death, Iran’s long range BM program has largely gone stagnant. Focus has been on Fateh family.

The fact this is massive jump in NK capability not being openly talked about is the GREATEST mystery.

 

[PeeD]

If your saying by default Dezful/Zolfghar are ballistic missiles but upon intial launch can be changed to a “quasi” trajectory. Then the question is what is the true range of Dezful/Zolfghar?

By default they are depressed trajectory missiles, if no ABM system is protecting the area, they can omit the 90° diving maneuver and go for max. range.
If they have a ballistic mode their range would further increase.
DT allows pretending that a different target is the desired target and F-pole style energy-kill maneuvering when entering ABM envelope.
Plus all the classical DT benefits like lower warning time or later tracking, faster arrival to the target and a few others.

Because US intelligence has never confirmed that Dezful or Zolfghar test has down complicated maneuvers. So either US intelligence has never announced it or Iran has never done it during a test.

Here is the trajectory the NK Iskander took

Well that trajectory was a intended leak from North Korean side, otherwise the U.S would not have released such details. In fact due to Irans size they would probably have no means to track the Dezful trajectory anyway.
Iran basically made that clear when first revealing the Zolfaghar with its Iskander-like shaped MaRV.

In a mere 10-15 years NK has gone from a “joke” in Missile testing (constant failures of soviet era missiles including Khorramshahr like missile and Tapedong) to nearly matching Russia in ABM maneuver technology.

All their current tech. is "Soviet era" based.
They first tested that Khorramshahr-like missile in 2016 successfully. That technology is pretty high.
They were never a joke anyway and now can taste the fruits of their work.
But with solid fuel missiles they did a unnatural jump.
The story goes like this: The Khorramshahr was probably the first project where we can talk about a joint development with Iran contributing significantly. Their liquid fuel program went on up until they reached ICBM level.
However with solids they just got very short range Tochkas (copied via Syria) by the mid-2000's. The sudden jump to a two stage solid fuel SLBM with filament casing sounds like tech-transfer from Iran. Iran on the other hand had a clear testing history up until what was reached on solids.
North Korea is a mature missile power, that's why I say tech. transfer, as they have their own design school and own solutions.

Meanwhile since Sejil-2 Missile launch in 2008 and Tehrani’s death, Iran’s long range BM program has largely gone stagnant. Focus has been on Fateh family.

Thats the impression the west got. The Sejil is a very important missile for Iran and they don't like to show or detail it much.
So no: Sejil is there and active, just too hot to be in the middle. Dezful was a evolutionary step that could be politically justified + a display of Irans solid tech. level.
But the Leader has apparently given green light on the large solids as satellite images of Shahruoud show. With the right political atmosphere of U.S push to the corner, Iran may can justify a ICBM test politically: A ICBM that can be credibly regarded as conventional one due to technological details.
Shahid Tehranis dream may be revealed very soon.

 

[Ich]

Me is not sure if this kind of A4 missile tech will last longer. Its nearly 80 years old and me think all the derivates of this A4 are only builded for that long cause of its reentry speed and the problems of the AD to shot them down. But AD gets better and better and will switch to LASER in the next 20 years. So there will be no more speed bonus for BMs. Me think this is the reason why many armys in the world try to implement low flying hyper sonic vehicles to counteract the speed of the coming AD systems. BMs are a dying species. So why invest to much in it.

 

[skyshadow]

By default they are depressed trajectory missiles, if no ABM system is protecting the area, they can omit the 90° diving maneuver and go for max. range.
If they have a ballistic mode their range would further increase.
DT allows pretending that a different target is the desired target and F-pole style energy-kill maneuvering when entering ABM envelope.
Plus all the classical DT benefits like lower warning time or later tracking, faster arrival to the target and a few others.



Well that trajectory was a intended leak from North Korean side, otherwise the U.S would not have released such details. In fact due to Irans size they would probably have no means to track the Dezful trajectory anyway.
Iran basically made that clear when first revealing the Zolfaghar with its Iskander-like shaped MaRV.



All their current tech. is "Soviet era" based.
They first tested that Khorramshahr-like missile in 2016 successfully. That technology is pretty high.
They were never a joke anyway and now can taste the fruits of their work.
But with solid fuel missiles they did a unnatural jump.
The story goes like this: The Khorramshahr was probably the first project where we can talk about a joint development with Iran contributing significantly. Their liquid fuel program went on up until they reached ICBM level.
However with solids they just got very short range Tochkas (copied via Syria) by the mid-2000's. The sudden jump to a two stage solid fuel SLBM with filament casing sounds like tech-transfer from Iran. Iran on the other hand had a clear testing history up until what was reached on solids.
North Korea is a mature missile power, that's why I say tech. transfer, as they have their own design school and own solutions.



Thats the impression the west got. The Sejil is a very important missile for Iran and they don't like to show or detail it much.
So no: Sejil is there and active, just too hot to be in the middle. Dezful was a evolutionary step that could be politically justified + a display of Irans solid tech. level.
But the Leader has apparently given green light on the large solids as satellite images of Shahruoud show. With the right political atmosphere of U.S push to the corner, Iran may can justify a ICBM test politically: A ICBM that can be credibly regarded as conventional one due to technological details.
Shahid Tehranis dream may be revealed very soon.

well US researchers believe the rocket motors could provide enough thrust for a missile that could cross between continents, slightly less powerful than the US Minuteman III ICBM, which can carry nuclear weapons which means that you were right and the range is somewhere between 10,000 to 14,000 KM.

An image of the suspected rocket test facility taken May 23, 2018, showing on-going road improvements.

the country’s leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, has said that Iran will not make missiles that could fly more than 2,000 kilometers (1,242 miles). The rocket motors on these test stands would provide the power to exceed this limit.




The satellite images that exposed Iran’s secret rocket program

https://qz.com/1286633/planet-satellite-images-exposed-irans-secret-rocket-program/

The researchers found in satellite images of a crater in the area around Shahrud, what they described as two “telltale ground scars,” both recent: one from 2016, the other June 2017. The researchers believe these are concrete stands that supported the tested engines. They say the 2017 test used a 370 ton stand, suggesting the engine powered up to 90 tons of thrust — enough for an intercontinental ballistic missile.

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/us...-expose-irans-secret-icbm-program/2018/05/23/

 

[TheImmortal]

well US researchers believe the rocket motors could provide enough thrust for a missile that could cross between continents, slightly less powerful than the US Minuteman III ICBM, which can carry nuclear weapons which means that you were right and the range is somewhere between 10,000 to 14,000 KM.

An image of the suspected rocket test facility taken May 23, 2018, showing on-going road improvements.

the country’s leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, has said that Iran will not make missiles that could fly more than 2,000 kilometers (1,242 miles). The rocket motors on these test stands would provide the power to exceed this limit.




The satellite images that exposed Iran’s secret rocket program

https://qz.com/1286633/planet-satellite-images-exposed-irans-secret-rocket-program/

The researchers found in satellite images of a crater in the area around Shahrud, what they described as two “telltale ground scars,” both recent: one from 2016, the other June 2017. The researchers believe these are concrete stands that supported the tested engines. They say the 2017 test used a 370 ton stand, suggesting the engine powered up to 90 tons of thrust — enough for an intercontinental ballistic missile.

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/us...-expose-irans-secret-icbm-program/2018/05/23/

At least they are smart now and doing engine tests far away in crater on a mountain range. If the engine explodes it will not jeopardize anything around it.

Plus how is 2016 & 2017 considered “recent”. 2-3 years is a considerable amount of time.

It’s clear these programs are after the Supreme Leader is gone. IRGC military plans are on the basis of 10, 25, and 50 years.

This 2000KM limit is a political limit that will be broken by IRGC when the time is right.

Though don’t expect to see mass produced ICBMs. These missiles are to be the future of an Iranian nuclear deterrent.

Iran is waiting for Saudi Arabia or Turkey to go nuclear to provide that pretext.

 

[K210]

In total North Korea likely got tech. transfer on their solids, most likely from Iran.

If true then why would the north koreans invest in testing/production infrastructure for solid fuel missles? They could just import ready built missiles/components from iran...

I would not be surprised if NK had been working on its pukguksong-1/pukguksong 2 SLBM/SRBM for a long time secretly and because of the fast pace of NK missile testing in recent years it just seems to us outsiders to be a "unnatural leap". The motors for these missiles are fairly basic with propellent loading most likely under the 10 ton mark. For measure indian SLV of 80s had 9 ton solid motor as first stage and that was developed at a time when india had no prior experience with large solid motors so it is not out of the realm of possibility that NK managed to pull off a similar feat with these new solid fuel missiles of theirs.

 

[TheImmortal]

The motors for these missiles are fairly basic with propellent loading most likely under the 10 ton mark.

NK ICBMs are powered by RD-250 Russian clone engines with a 90 ton mark.