India is taking 'holycow' to a whole new level, even killing for it.

[padamchen]

Lol. So what are you going to do about your genetic problems? Blame your parents.

There's nothing you can do beyond a point.

Good climate, medicine, nutrition, training, facilities, will take you only thus far.

Till you hit the genetic wall.

Many million second and third generation Indians living in the West.

Not a single world beater.

Think why.

 

[911]

There's nothing you can do beyond a point.

Good climate, medicine, nutrition, training, facilities, will take you only thus far.

Till you hit the genetic wall.

Many million second and third generation Indians living in the West.

Not a single world beater.

Think why.

Ok.

 

[padamchen]

Ok.

Nothing much else you can say.

 

[Shajida Khan]

You are Wrong AGAIN.

During partition the CONgress DID NOT Introduce the world "secular" into the constitution. This was done by Indira Gandhi during Emergency.

However the real "secular" nature of the Constitution comes from the secular nature of Hindu religion and all Hindus. Not the CONgress.

Socialist means Social ownership and control of the means of production, which may mean autonomous cooperatives or direct public ownership; wherein production is carried out directly for use. Which means PSU. Not the things you have mentioned.

Subsidies are not 'socialist', because that would make the US socialist too.

However it was the CONgress who later SOLD the PSU's thus distanced itself from the socialism mentioned in the constitution.

To its credit, the BJP has not yet sold any PSU unlike the CONgress and that makes the BJP MORE Socialist than the CONgress.

These are eh FACTS of teh case without any Prejudice.



There is nothing to argue, because nothing I have said can be faulted.

You can produce No FACTS to support your claims, only opinions disguised as facts.

You are a victim of your own honesty. Now if you can demonstrate the integrity to own up to that honesty this debate is over.

I would love to discuss this, but this thread is not right for that discussion. Just few pointers -

1. I agree 'word' secular was inserted into pre-emble n 42nd amendment and it was done by Congress and Indra Gandhi during emergency. That much is my factual error, the word secular was not present since beginning. However, Nehru (and Jinnha in case of Pakistan as well) were very much in favour of India for all Indian irrespective of religion. Secondly, the word secular in its truest sense mean complete separation of state and religion. Indian brand of secularism does not follow this definition to the letter t. It is rather allowing co-existence of different religion together without state favoring any religion. That said the defining feature of both India and Pakistan as envisioned by Jinnah was to become democracies with no state favoured religion. In case of Pakistan, Jinnah died much earlier and later leaders took a path of state religion. I doubt without Nehru's and congress's progressive ideas, India would have remained 'secular'.

2. Now coming to Socialist portion. Socialism, like secularsim, being a social science concept does not have a very cut and dry menifestion in reality. Rather there are definitions of socialism given by various economists over course of time and they define features. One of the defining feature is ownership of factor of production and their operation for the benefit of people rather than maximization of profit. This led to an economy which was mixed. Meaning it had features of socialistic economy and it tolerated private property and private ownership of factors of production under tightly defined regulations. And yes, subsidies, labour rights, license raj, planned economy are all very important menifestations of Socialism. Congress, rather Nehru family was responsible for implementation of these features for quite sometime. And yes while it was Narasimha Rao and Manmohan singh who started the liberalization process due to economic emergency in early 90s, this was more of a aberrant behaviour to the point many in Congress simply refuse to even mention Narashimha Rao as one of the major leaders in Congress. Even Sonia Gandhi passed over him while narrating the achievements of Congress since ages. Liberalization by Congress in early 90s was more of a accident and less of a change in congress policy. Heck even Narasimha Rao's elevation to PM was an accident.

About BJP not closing any PSU, I will say you are comparing Apples and Pineapples. Scale is simply different. Let them have a reign of 10 years and then comment.

There's nothing you can do beyond a point.

Good climate, medicine, nutrition, training, facilities, will take you only thus far.

Till you hit the genetic wall.

Many million second and third generation Indians living in the West.

Not a single world beater.

Think why.

They have been an awful number of world beaters among Indians, especially Indians in USA. We are among the richest community in USA, we are among most educated community in USA, Nobel prize winners in sciences, NFL Players, olympic medalists etc etc etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_Americans

Go through it and if possible get rid of your self hate.

Lastly, what is this obsession with 'world beating'. You beat the world today and tomorrow someone surpasses you. Most of the greatest things in the world are product of contributions of a number of above average folks. Humanity is not great because we have strongest muscles, keenest sense of smell, tallest height etc etc etc. We are greatest because we know the art of consciously building upon our collective wisdom over ages. The guy who did the first heat transplant didn't do it because he was the most intelligent person of his time, but because he built upon the work of others before him.

 

[JetCool]

I would love to discuss this, but this thread is not right for that discussion. Just few pointers -

1. I agree 'word' secular was inserted into pre-emble n 42nd amendment and it was done by Congress and Indra Gandhi during emergency. That much is my factual error, the word secular was not present since beginning. However, Nehru (and Jinnha in case of Pakistan as well) were very much in favour of India for all Indian irrespective of religion. Secondly, the word secular in its truest sense mean complete separation of state and religion. Indian brand of secularism does not follow this definition to the letter t. It is rather allowing co-existence of different religion together without state favoring any religion. That said the defining feature of both India and Pakistan as envisioned by Jinnah was to become democracies with no state favoured religion. In case of Pakistan, Jinnah died much earlier and later leaders took a path of state religion. I doubt without Nehru's and congress's progressive ideas, India would have remained 'secular'.

Each nation follows secularism as defined by its needs.

Since in Hindu India, the religion was NEVER involved with he state, there was no need for any artificial separation. Which is why Indian secularism is equal respect for all religion, i.e. "Sarva Dharma sadbhav" which is the basic tenet of Hinduism. All path leads to god.

Nehru is a product of this thinking, the thinking is not Nehru's creation.

The India parliament debated this issue and accepted this version of secularism in line with our traditional values.

Gandhi believed in Sarva Dharma Sadbhav, which is respect for all faiths. OTOH Nehru, an agnostic the approach was to stay away from all religions. India rejected Nehru's idea of Secularism and adopted Gandhi's idea which was rooted in Hinduism.

Gandhi died before Jinnah, and yet India remained secular while pakistan become islamic. Its very premise was islamic land. "Pak" istan.

Your doubt is a reflection of your doubt on Hindu values. This is because you look at Hindu values and society from the prism of islamic values and islamic society. That is when it becomes subjective, and not objective.

2. Now coming to Socialist portion. Socialism, like secularsim, being a social science concept does not have a very cut and dry menifestion in reality. Rather there are definitions of socialism given by various economists over course of time and they define features. One of the defining feature is ownership of factor of production and their operation for the benefit of people rather than maximization of profit. This led to an economy which was mixed. Meaning it had features of socialistic economy and it tolerated private property and private ownership of factors of production under tightly defined regulations. And yes, subsidies, labour rights, license raj, planned economy are all very important menifestations of Socialism. Congress, rather Nehru family was responsible for implementation of these features for quite sometime. And yes while it was Narasimha Rao and Manmohan singh who started the liberalization process due to economic emergency in early 90s, this was more of a aberrant behaviour to the point many in Congress simply refuse to even mention Narashimha Rao as one of the major leaders in Congress. Even Sonia Gandhi passed over him while narrating the achievements of Congress since ages. Liberalization by Congress in early 90s was more of a accident and less of a change in congress policy. Heck even Narasimha Rao's elevation
to PM was an accident.

Let us examine your examples one by one,

License raj was an continuation of the policies of British raj that choose to shackle Indian entrepreneurship.

Labour rights and Subsidies = Even the US have them. 8 hours working day, minimum wage etc. That is no marker for socialism.

Planned economy was due to communist Russian influence. It had more to do with channeling limited resources for transformational change, rather than any socialist ideals. Nehru was inspired by the progress USSR made with such plans.

So you can see that non of these were inspired by socialistic ideals.

Also congress sidelining of Narasimharao was more due to him sidelining sonia gandhi and due to the ghost of Babri masjid. It had nothing to do with his economic policy. In fact Rajiv gandhi did not believe in socialism and pushed hard to get Maruti into India.

About BJP not closing any PSU, I will say you are comparing Apples and Pineapples. Scale is simply different. Let them have a reign of 10 years and then comment.

You can look at the performance of PUS's under Modi when he was the CM of Gujarat which is more than 10 years.

He turned it around, rather than sell them. This is as objective as it gets.

Currently he is expanding the capacity of Railways, turning Air India profitable with no plans of selling them,
PSU stocks across key sectors — from infrastructure to energy to banks — are logging an impressive rise under the BJP.

State support for PSU's has only got stronger under the BJP, not weaker.

When you get rid of the prejudices, the Facts will speak for itself and then you get a clear picture.

 

[padamchen]

I would love to discuss this, but this thread is not right for that discussion. Just few pointers -

1. I agree 'word' secular was inserted into pre-emble n 42nd amendment and it was done by Congress and Indra Gandhi during emergency. That much is my factual error, the word secular was not present since beginning. However, Nehru (and Jinnha in case of Pakistan as well) were very much in favour of India for all Indian irrespective of religion. Secondly, the word secular in its truest sense mean complete separation of state and religion. Indian brand of secularism does not follow this definition to the letter t. It is rather allowing co-existence of different religion together without state favoring any religion. That said the defining feature of both India and Pakistan as envisioned by Jinnah was to become democracies with no state favoured religion. In case of Pakistan, Jinnah died much earlier and later leaders took a path of state religion. I doubt without Nehru's and congress's progressive ideas, India would have remained 'secular'.

2. Now coming to Socialist portion. Socialism, like secularsim, being a social science concept does not have a very cut and dry menifestion in reality. Rather there are definitions of socialism given by various economists over course of time and they define features. One of the defining feature is ownership of factor of production and their operation for the benefit of people rather than maximization of profit. This led to an economy which was mixed. Meaning it had features of socialistic economy and it tolerated private property and private ownership of factors of production under tightly defined regulations. And yes, subsidies, labour rights, license raj, planned economy are all very important menifestations of Socialism. Congress, rather Nehru family was responsible for implementation of these features for quite sometime. And yes while it was Narasimha Rao and Manmohan singh who started the liberalization process due to economic emergency in early 90s, this was more of a aberrant behaviour to the point many in Congress simply refuse to even mention Narashimha Rao as one of the major leaders in Congress. Even Sonia Gandhi passed over him while narrating the achievements of Congress since ages. Liberalization by Congress in early 90s was more of a accident and less of a change in congress policy. Heck even Narasimha Rao's elevation to PM was an accident.

About BJP not closing any PSU, I will say you are comparing Apples and Pineapples. Scale is simply different. Let them have a reign of 10 years and then comment.





They have been an awful number of world beaters among Indians, especially Indians in USA. We are among the richest community in USA, we are among most educated community in USA, Nobel prize winners in sciences, NFL Players, olympic medalists etc etc etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_Americans

Go through it and if possible get rid of your self hate.

Lastly, what is this obsession with 'world beating'. You beat the world today and tomorrow someone surpasses you. Most of the greatest things in the world are product of contributions of a number of above average folks. Humanity is not great because we have strongest muscles, keenest sense of smell, tallest height etc etc etc. We are greatest because we know the art of consciously building upon our collective wisdom over ages. The guy who did the first heat transplant didn't do it because he was the most intelligent person of his time, but because he built upon the work of others before him.

I repeat.

Show me an Indian who excels in something physical in ASIA.

Dunya ki abhi aukat nahin hai.

I do not hate myself.

But I recognize the genetic limitations of my countrymen.

And women ....

Coming from the most fertile land on earth, over millennia, we must really have been given a genetic doozy to be as small and weak and non athletic as we are.

 

[JetCool]

I repeat.

Show me an Indian who excels in something physical in ASIA.

Dunya ki abhi aukat nahin hai.

I do not hate myself.

But I recognize the genetic limitations of my countrymen.

And women ....

Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions.

Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.

You are merely projecting your limitations to your 1 billion countrymen.

Stretching oneself to the limits of one's physical endurance has less to do with physical conditioning and more to do with the MENTAL MAKEUP.

LOL at your "theory" of genetics

 

[padamchen]

Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions.

Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.

You are merely projecting your limitations to your 1 billion countrymen.

Stretching oneself to the limits of one's physical endurance has less to do with physical conditioning and more to do with the MENTAL MAKEUP.

LOL at your "theory" of genetics

So you know of an Indian who is a physical world beater?

Rahne de ...

 

[JetCool]

So you know of an Indian who is a physical world beater?

Rahne de ...

Since you are so focused on physical strength and endurance, here is one for you.

 

[padamchen]

Since you are so focused on physical strength and endurance, here is one for you.

You know why the only military campaigns the Indian civilization carried out successfully beyond the boundaries of the Indian subcontinent down thousands of years was the south east Asian campaigns?

Because they were even smaller than us.

 

[JetCool]

Do you know who that is ?

You know why the only military campaigns the Indian civilization carried out successfully beyond the boundaries of the Indian subcontinent down thousands of years was the south east Asian campaigns?

Because they were even smaller than us.

Is that why we find traces of Hindu culture from Russia to Iraq ?

 

[duhastmish]

Do you know who that is ?



Is that why we find traces of Hindu culture from Russia to Iraq ?

That's Ghulam Mohammad bhutt. He was a Kashmiri Pakistani person. He was a good wrestler.

But still you can't fulfill this padamcan and his inferiority complex.

 

[padamchen]

I am so done with Sanghees it's not funny.

I used to think Islamist fundos were the bottom feeding scum.

Then 2014 happened.

And we met their cousins.

 

[JetCool]

That's Ghulam Mohammad bhutt. He was a Kashmiri Pakistani person. He was a good wrestler.

But still you can't fulfill this padamcan and his inferiority complex.

I am so done with Sanghees it's not funny.

I used to think Islamist fundos were the bottom feeding scum.

Then 2014 happened.

And we met their cousins.

Back to the standard script when you have been proved Wrong on ALL counts.

What a pathetic excuse for a man.

 

[Shajida Khan]

Show me an Indian who excels in something physical in ASIA.

Ugh... Do I even need to show some Indian who excels in some physical 'activity' within Asia?

Sachin Tendulkar comes to mind. One of the finest cricketer, holder of world record in number of runs in the world and definitely in Asia

Leander Pace is among top 5 tennis players in Asia and was the best tennis player in Asia in his prime. (http://www.foxsportsasia.com/news/top-5-asian-tennis-players/)

Sania Mirza is among the top 5 tennis players in Asia and together with Leander Pace, she rules the mixed double catagory. (http://www.foxsportsasia.com/news/top-5-asian-tennis-players/)

P. T. Usha, She held Asian Record in 400 m.