In solidarity with the Hindu/Indian posters here on Defence.PK

[ChennaiDude]

Why should we "now"? Lets hear you out.

May I indulge too-
Maybe INDIANS who live in Indian Kashmir should be asked - People who dont consider themselfs as INDIAN are free to move out-Kashmir is Indian - No

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

May I indulge too-
Maybe INDIANS who live in Indian Kashmir should be asked - People who dont consider themselfs as INDIAN are free to move out-Kashmir is Indian - No

Absolutely, and to identify who is Indian, Pakistani or Independent Kashmiri, let the UN hold a plebiscite and ask the Kashmiris whether they wish to be a part of Pakistan, India or independent.

Once that is established, the minority (in the plebiscite) can move wherever the hell they want.

 

[JonAsad]

I don't doubt your sincerity, and appreciate your words.

But I disagree with the "huge in number" part.

The question I ask is a simple one.

If India's economy was growing at a torrid 20%, how many would speak up if the BJP government was continuing its anti-Muslim pogroms and marching us off to detention camps?

The reality is very few. For the vast many who you consider as "silent" would simply look the other way as they are enriching themselves.

The ma

I am still awaiting why you want India to hear out Kashmiris at time of peak insurgency triggered by foreign element when sentiments against India are down by design. Why should India play by "others" book?

Don't you get it he is a muslim?
Don't you get it why you disagree with him and the Kashmiris right to be heard? Because they are muslim...
Its in your DNA.

 

[ChennaiDude]

Absolutely, and to identify who is Indian, Pakistani or Independent Kashmiri, let the UN hold a plebiscite and ask the Kashmiris whether they wish to be a part of Pakistan, India or independent.

Once that is established, the minority can move wherever the hell they want.

Thats what I am saying -Indian GOI is just doing that UN can/will be informed once the list of Indian nationals who can vote for referendum is consolidated- The ones who are not Indian are excluded.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

-Indian GOI is just doing that UN can/will be informed once the list of Indian nationals who can vote for referendum is consolidated- The ones who are not Indian are excluded.

When?

 

[Joe Shearer]

May I?

"India is merely a geographical expression. It is no more a single country than the Equator."

Winston Churchill.

Ah, from the ridiculous to the sublime. AND you've noticed that Churchill is my favourite expert at large. He really knew his stuff. For instance,

I have not become the King’s First Minister in order to preside over the liquidation of the British Empire.

That was in November 1942; percipient, is that the word? Or a truly insightful gaze into the nature of inter-racial relations:

...the consciousness of dominion over subject races must alone increase the self-respect of every Englishman...

Oh, quate, quate.

He had much to say about India and Indians besides this, saying that he 'hated Indians', and considered them 'a beastly people with a beastly religion' and including endearing bits about my ethnicity:

Starvation of anyhow underfed Bengalis is less serious than that of sturdy Greeks

No time here to speak about the Mutiny on the Curragh, or the disastrous stint as First Lord of the Admiralty, presiding over the vacuum caused by the abrupt departure of Prince Louis Battenberg, the First Sea Lord, and making a hash of the Royal Navy, at Jutland, and the relations of Jellicoe and Beatty; or should we talk about Gallipoli? Or even, years afterwards, Crete?

No, no, let's leave it at his magisterial declaration above about India, a subject that he knew and loved so well. He must have got it right about India when he said that, since, by the law of averages, having got everything else wrong, he was due for a win.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I am still awaiting why you want India to hear out Kashmiris at time of peak insurgency triggered by foreign element when sentiments against India are down by design. Why should India play by "others" book?

I'm waiting to hear why you and other Indians have the gall to blame Kashmiris for engaging in a low level insurgency when even protests that involve chucking rocks and stones result in them getting maimed & blinded with pellet guns and picked up and tortured and killed, atrocities as a result of an occupation BY India that has been going on for 70 plus years.

The option to let the Kashmiris decide their destiny via plebiscite exists even now, but all you can do is regurgitate the same victim blaming that has come to be associated with India's sexual assault epidemic.

 

[ChennaiDude]

When?

In stealth mode-(-Hint- Just like - CAA/NRC etc)- Once all the data with Indians in Kashmir are included will be presented for the same.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thats what I am saying -Indian GOI is just doing that UN can/will be informed once the list of Indian nationals who can vote for referendum is consolidated- The ones who are not Indian are excluded.

A referendum in disputed territory isn't conducted after the occupying State gets to ethnically/ideologically cleanse the territory from all those who oppose the occupation.

I said this forum will be open to differing points of view, not those flippantly arguing in favor of ethnic/ideological cleansing of ANY community.

You'll be allowed on the forum so long as you can engage with civility, decency and good intentions. If the only counter-argument you're left with is a variation of the Sanghi desire to cleanse out (through violence & intimidation) all those who oppose India's expansionist policies, then there is no point in engaging.

As the old adage (oft reiterated by our elders) goes, 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all'.

 

[ChennaiDude]

A referendum in disputed territory isn't conducted after the occupying State gets to ethnically/ideologically cleanse the territory from all those who oppose the occupation.

I said this forum will be open to differing points of view, not those flippantly arguing in favor of ethnic/ideological cleansing of ANY community.

You'll be allowed on the forum so long as you can engage with civility, decency and good intentions. If the only counter-argument you're left with is a variation of the Sanghi desire to cleanse out (through violence & intimidation) all those who oppose India's expansionist policies, then there is no point in engaging.

As the old adage (oft reiterated by our elders) goes, 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all'.

I would humbly agree to disagree and leave it that- Nowhere I have said cleanse out anyone- The ones that are confused will be sent to reeducation places-(a la china model). Did I even mention religion/caste etc- All I said was Kashmiri's-(Dont understand how you took that as cleansing a community)- I will follow your direction and say nothing at all on this-you know my stand of this anyway.

 

[Soumitra]

I'm waiting to hear why you and other Indians have the gall to blame Kashmiris for engaging in a low level insurgency when even protests that involve chucking rocks and stones result in them getting maimed & blinded with pellet guns and picked up and tortured and killed, atrocities as a result of an occupation BY India that has been going on for 70 plus years.

In a democracy you are allowed "Peaceful protests". Hurling stones and rocks is not peaceful.

Why was there no insurgency pre-1989? Hint Pakistan started meddling in our internal affairs around that time. first in Punjab then in Kashmir.

 

[IMARV]

I'm waiting to hear why you and other Indians have the gall to blame Kashmiris for engaging in a low level insurgency when even protests that involve chucking rocks and stones result in them getting maimed & blinded with pellet guns and picked up and tortured and killed, atrocities as a result of an occupation BY India that has been going on for 70 plus years.

I dont blame Kashmiris, but the designs which made them pelt stones. You can exaggerate to 70 years to make it look worse, but that's not true. Kashmiris are not the first in the world to fall for propaganda.

I was more interested to know my fellow countrymen view on the same.

The option to let the Kashmiris decide their destiny via plebiscite exists even now, but all you can do is regurgitate the same victim blaming that has come to be associated with India's sexual assault epidemic.

The option to let the Kashmir decide was to solve Indo - Pak issue amicably, not that Indian Independence Act gave any right to any state of erstwhile India to chose by plebiscite. India Pakistan could not utilize the option in mutually agreeable way using good office of UN 70 years back. That option is no more acceptable to India as a tool to resolve Ind-Pak issue today. We can now bilaterally chose any other method.

India's sexual assault epidemic

Unnecessary provocation.

Don't you get it he is a muslim?
Don't you get it why you disagree with him and the Kashmiris right to be heard? Because they are muslim...
Its in your DNA.

How are you Jon? Hope all good and healthy !!

 

[T90TankGuy]

I don't doubt your sincerity, and appreciate your words.

But I disagree with the "huge in number" part.

The question I ask is a simple one.

If India's economy was growing at a torrid 20%, how many would speak up if the BJP government was continuing its anti-Muslim pogroms and marching us off to detention camps?

The reality is very few. For the vast many who you consider as "silent" would simply look the other way as they are enriching themselves.

No i disagree , give me time to respond in detail , its a lot more complex them what you have said . may be tomorrow when i am off duty .

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In a democracy you are allowed "Peaceful protests". Hurling stones and rocks is not peaceful.

Why was there no insurgency pre-1989? Hint Pakistan started meddling in our internal affairs around that time. first in Punjab then in Kashmir.

Maybe because everyone had a breaking point in terms of how long they continued to hope for a peaceful resolution of the dispute via plebiscite.

If you think the majority of Kashmiris want to remain part of India, and this is just an insignificant minority being exploited by Pakistan, why not end all the conflict and just let the UN hold a plebiscite?

 

[T90TankGuy]

I'll go by process of elimination. Can't be BIMARU states. Can't be tribal belt or northwest. He's giving me Lutyens Delhi/Bombay/Bangalore or some communist state like Kerala or West Bengal.

Well I have lived in all three places for a long time , though i am from Bombay , ancestors are from Goa though