Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Yasser76]

Money is made with money....but it require innovative ideas and out of box thinking which we really lacks.

I simply do not understand this statement, it makes no sense. Money is required. "Out of the box thinking" does not get LMTAS paid.....

 

[Armchair]

Money is made with money....but it require innovative ideas and out of box thinking which we really lacks.

This is quite true. Good engineering teams and R&D generate their own keep and then some. This is something that most third worlders will not understand unfortunately.

 

[Incog_nito]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

JF-17s are produced
F-16s are almost 70+ only 30 additional needed.
100 EU fighters - that's a question.
5th Gen are coming.

 

[araz]

JF-17s are produced
F-16s are almost 70+ only 30 additional needed.
100 EU fighters - that's a question.
5th Gen are coming.

The only thing I will add is that PAF has the capacity to add150 16s. If we can reach that mark, we can coccoon some pgs and M3/5s and retain 50 M3/5s for ground attack/ precision attack. this will give us the 450 fighter force which we need
A

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi here our memeber should understand one thing about jf17 is engine been purely
Sorted out by Chinese while taking Russians into frame or I should say keep them in loop
While keeping them in loop is related with lots of purchases for China from Russian including
One of the prime thing is su35 and other related items now I’m not saying it’s only beneficial
For us it more beneficial for Chinese also
So yea up until now engine is the most core issue even Chinese start churning engines of their own they need lots of them for their own 4-5++ fighters
Thank you

 

[Akh1112]

You guys are forgetting that the Block 50/52 are no longer being produced. Either the PAF goes for used airframes or goes for new 72's which is a VERY costly route.

 

[Signalian]

Mirages are and will only be used in ground attack role including CAS.
They will be a means of the very last resort if they are ever used in the air defence role.......meaning the air war is already lost as we have lost all or most of our air to air warfare platforms.

ROSE-1 are upgraded for air combat not strike.

• 250 JF-17s
• 100 F-16s
• 100 EU Fighters
• 100 5th Gen

This type of fleet will look best for PAF.

Two major Qs there:

1. why would you need more F-16 ?

2. Mirage replacement could be EU but how will you install Mirage weaponry on a European fighter like Ra'ad, H2 and H4 etc? Will EU come with its full weapon compliment of SOM, ALCM, AShM etc ?

The only thing I will add is that PAF has the capacity to add150 16s. If we can reach that mark, we can coccoon some pgs and M3/5s and retain 50 M3/5s for ground attack/ precision attack. this will give us the 450 fighter force which we need
A

and the role for F-16s that you have in mind is... ?

All in all my guess if that once JF-17s/Surplus F-16s replace all the F-7Ps, then PAF will retire air defence Mirages then finally ROSE Strike Mirages. My guess is F-7PG will stay on for another 10-15 years as the airframes are quite new and have been equipped with Grifo, the F-7PG units are stationed at Samunguli and Peshawar by the quiet Iran/Afghan borders. Also handy to have this plane for lead in training and DACM

F-16 will never carry Ra'ad, H2 and H4. The only effective AGM it carries is AGM65. JF-17 has no effective SOW or AGM, only ARM and AShM.

which aircraft will carry Mirage weaponry effectively ?

This is quite true. Good engineering teams and R&D generate their own keep and then some. This is something that most third worlders will not understand unfortunately.

This forum needs to think on different lines every now and then. Its not the aircraft only, but the electronics/weapon package it brings with itself to give results. R&D is a must.

You guys are forgetting that the Block 50/52 are no longer being produced. Either the PAF goes for used airframes or goes for new 72's which is a VERY costly route.

Get A/B models cheaply and upgrade them to Block 52+ standard but that requires lots of negotiation with USA.

 

[araz]

ROSE-1 are upgraded for air combat not strike.


Two major Qs there:

1. why would you need more F-16 ?

2. Mirage replacement could be EU but how will you install Mirage weaponry on a European fighter like Ra'ad, H2 and H4 etc? Will EU come with its full weapon compliment of SOM, ALCM, AShM etc ?


and the role for F-16s that you have in mind is... ?


F-16 will never carry Ra'ad, H2 and H4. The only effective AGM it carries is AGM65. JF-17 has no effective SOW or AGM, only ARM and AShM.

which aircraft will carry Mirage weaponry effectively ?


This forum needs to think on different lines every now and then. Its not the aircraft only, but the electronics/weapon package it brings with itself to give results. R&D is a must.


Get A/B models cheaply and upgrade them to Block 52+ standard but that requires lots of negotiation with USA.

The role is as currently in a hi- Lo role(performing this role with the JFTs). The numbers given are simply a reflecton of the capacity which PAF currently has for incorporation of the 16s into its fleet from the infrastructure perspective. I have no doubt the current restrictions will remain and the ability to cross over into enemy terrain will remain the top job of the JFTs. However, 400 BVR equipped fighters will give the enemy a lot to think about. I also do not think this capacity will be fulfilled but it is probably worth a try for PAF to get as close to the number as is possible.
If the war comes, then it may be a case of no holds barred and sanctions or restrictions will not stop PAF doing what they want to do which would be wreaking Havoc.
A

 

[jupiter2007]

• 250 JF-17s
• 100 F-16s
• 100 EU Fighters
• 100 5th Gen

This type of fleet will look best for PAF.

Nice Wish list but too far away from the reality.
We have 76 F-16s and between 105 to 115. JF-17 in the inventory.
The way things are going, we will still have 20 to 30 J-7P/PG and 35 to 40 Mirage III/V by 2030.

 

[ziaulislam]

Nice Wish list but too far away from the reality.
We have 76 F-16s and between 105 to 115. JF-17 in the inventory.
The way things are going, we will still have 20 to 30 J-7P/PG and 35 to 40 Mirage III/V by 2030.

F7s will be gone by 2025 but mirages will stick till 2035-40

 

[Talon]

I have no doubt the current restrictions will remain and the ability to cross over into enemy terrain will remain the top job of the JFTs.
A

For 1000th time, please stop spreading this narrative.F-16s have no such condition,they can fly wherever PAF wants and they can be posted wherever PAF wants, example being deployment of F-16 units during last year's standoff to different air bases.

This is a misleading information spread by Indians and Pakistanis are falling for it like always.

The only restriction that is confirmed is Chinese are not allowed to come close to F16s on ground.

F7s will be gone by 2025 but mirages will stick till 2035-40

F-7s will retire only when CCS stops using them.

If Sohail Aman was still chief then you could say F-7s will retire by 2025,no disrespect for the current chief but Sohail Aman had a separate vision.

 

[Armchair]

For 1000th time, please stop spreading this narrative.F-16s have no such condition,they can fly wherever PAF wants and they can be posted wherever PAF wants, example being deployment of F-16 units during last year's standoff to different air bases.

This is a misleading information spread by Indians and Pakistanis are falling for it like always.

The only restriction that is confirmed is Chinese are not allowed to come close to F16s on ground.


F-7s will retire only when CCS stops using them.

If Sohail Aman was still chief then you could say F-7s will retire by 2025,no disrespect for the current chief but Sohail Aman had a separate vision.

Hodor, would you be able to rank the different platforms in CPFH terms? I'm guessing its (from cheapest to most expensive):

1. F-16
2. JF-17
3. F-7PG
4. Mirage

 

[Yasser76]

For 1000th time, please stop spreading this narrative.F-16s have no such condition,they can fly wherever PAF wants and they can be posted wherever PAF wants, example being deployment of F-16 units during last year's standoff to different air bases.

This is a misleading information spread by Indians and Pakistanis are falling for it like always.

The only restriction that is confirmed is Chinese are not allowed to come close to F16s on ground.


F-7s will retire only when CCS stops using them.

If Sohail Aman was still chief then you could say F-7s will retire by 2025,no disrespect for the current chief but Sohail Aman had a separate vision.

Seperate vision? Explain? You act as if the PAF was a toy and that one person can be in charge of it and change it's future over a 3 year tenure. Unless you can back up this claim it comes across as vindictive. Like the Army and Navy, Air Chiefs can initiate projects or cancel them but very very rarely can they change the course of the air force. The JF-17 project has been spread over 4-5 Chiefs and probably another 2 more till it is completed. Under current one we have inducted more Erieye and he intiated the latest inductions but last Erieye will be delivered under a seperate Chief so who tales command. Aman was very good at PR and there was always news about new squadrons, equipment inducted, trips abroad etc. Current chief keeps a very low public profile, this does not however mean much is not being done in the background. Only real factor I guess is after ACM Mir every other chief has had a lot of exposure to NATO (Staff College, attachments etc) while Anwar Khan has missed out on this, as he has only done course in Jordan,

 

[airomerix]

CCS Mirages on the go.

 

[Thorough Pro]

did we just hit some goldmine or did it rain gold bullions the other day?

JF-17s are produced
F-16s are almost 70+ only 30 additional needed.
100 EU fighters - that's a question.
5th Gen are coming.