Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Pakistani Fighter]

B.S

How many years are expected for Mirages to fly with PAF?

 

[nomi007]

How many years are expected for Mirages to fly with PAF?

Jab tak hai jan.

elan warns tweet in this regard is very interested.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Jab tak hai jan.

elan warns tweet in this regard is very interested.

Can you share

 

[Bossman]

How many years are expected for Mirages to fly with PAF?

As long as the IAF Jaguars are flying as they are much better than the Jags in a strike role.

Jag is an unpowered trainer pretending to be a strike aircraft.

 

[denel]

Can you share why this confusion arises, due to PAF change of mind, prices forn Egyptians or Egyptians changed of mind for deal

Could be any reason; by now these should have been here given the amount of noise generated. Either Master Bone Sawer squeezed Pharoah Sisi to hold off etc.

 

[Incog_nito]

Why not PAF make a separate wing or a force of Mirages and keep them for only strike missions?

BTW, is PAF still open to acquire more Mirages from ex-users?

 

[jupiter2007]

Why not PAF make a separate wing or a force of Mirages and keep them for only strike missions?

BTW, is PAF still open to acquire more Mirages from ex-users?

Majority of countries have retired their fleet
of Mirage 3/5 ten years ago. Currently Pakistan is only country that has Mirage 3/5 still flying. Honestly these should have been replaced 10 years ago with surplus F-16 or JF-17 or another planes.

 

[Yasser76]

Majority of countries have retired their fleet
of Mirage 3/5 ten years ago. Currently Pakistan is only country that has Mirage 3/5 still flying. Honestly these should have been replaced 10 years ago with surplus F-16 or JF-17 or another planes.

You need to look at this on an individual basis. Yes, it's not great that PAF is only Mirage 3/5 user but PAF does not really suffer many of the problems that would come with being a sole user for several reasons.

1) The sheer size of our fleet. Just like USAF is worlds only Raptor user and IAF is worlds only Jaguar user, PAF has a fleet of around 110 active and 60 surplus air frames.
2) Spares and overhaul. As this is done in house and we can completely rebuild a Mirage from ground up, spares are also no problem consideirng the amount of spare airframes
3) Pilot training. PAF has a massive pool of Mirage pilots, many of whom are QFIs so there will never be a shortage of experienced men to pass on knowledge, a strong Mirage "culture" has grown in PAF
5) The Mirage 3/5 has approx the same thrust to weight ratio as the IAF Jaguar but almost twice the speed and 30% more combat range (more now that many can be air refuelled)
6) Even ROSE versions are becoming quite old now, but for South Asia still very useful for deep strike and stand off strike like we saw on Feb 27th. As air defence fighter it has run it's course and should be retired. Mirage also very useful for weapons trials and development as we have seen with RAAD. Babur. H2/H4

All in all my guess if that once JF-17s/Surplus F-16s replace all the F-7Ps, then PAF will retire air defence Mirages then finally ROSE Strike Mirages. My guess is F-7PG will stay on for another 10-15 years as the airframes are quite new and have been equipped with Grifo, the F-7PG units are stationed at Samunguli and Peshawar by the quiet Iran/Afghan borders. Also handy to have this plane for lead in training and DACM

 

[Bilal.]

You need to look at this on an individual basis. Yes, it's not great that PAF is only Mirage 3/5 user but PAF does not really suffer many of the problems that would come with being a sole user for several reasons.

1) The sheer size of our fleet. Just like USAF is worlds only Raptor user and IAF is worlds only Jaguar user, PAF has a fleet of around 110 active and 60 surplus air frames.
2) Spares and overhaul. As this is done in house and we can completely rebuild a Mirage from ground up, spares are also no problem consideirng the amount of spare airframes
3) Pilot training. PAF has a massive pool of Mirage pilots, many of whom are QFIs so there will never be a shortage of experienced men to pass on knowledge, a strong Mirage "culture" has grown in PAF
5) The Mirage 3/5 has approx the same thrust to weight ratio as the IAF Jaguar but almost twice the speed and 30% more combat range (more now that many can be air refuelled)
6) Even ROSE versions are becoming quite old now, but for South Asia still very useful for deep strike and stand off strike like we saw on Feb 27th. As air defence fighter it has run it's course and should be retired. Mirage also very useful for weapons trials and development as we have seen with RAAD. Babur. H2/H4

All in all my guess if that once JF-17s/Surplus F-16s replace all the F-7Ps, then PAF will retire air defence Mirages then finally ROSE Strike Mirages. My guess is F-7PG will stay on for another 10-15 years as the airframes are quite new and have been equipped with Grifo, the F-7PG units are stationed at Samunguli and Peshawar by the quiet Iran/Afghan borders. Also handy to have this plane for lead in training and DACM

Also it basically frees up our F16s and JF17 to focus on air combat duties. That gives great flexibility to our Air Force.

Mirages are like our B52s.

 

[Yasser76]

Also it basically frees up our F16s and JF17 to focus on air combat duties. That gives great flexibility to our Air Force.

Mirages are like our B52s.

Yes, absolutely, but remember the US as continously upgraded the B-52, our ROSE upgrade is approaching 30 years of age. The Grifo radar is a very decent set (on par with APG-66) but will be suseptible to the latest EW and raneg is limited. These planes should be retired from air defence.

For ground attack the basic FLIR and EW fit on the ROSE II/III are still very good for the South Asian context and give us an additional night attack ability but is still at least a generation behind the ASEL Pod and Sniper pods of the JF-17s and F-16s.

Ideally the Mirage needs it's own pod too but then you are adding more weight on.

 

[Bilal.]

Yes, absolutely, but remember the US as continously upgraded the B-52, our ROSE upgrade is approaching 30 years of age. The Grifo radar is a very decent set (on par with APG-66) but will be suseptible to the latest EW and raneg is limited. These planes should be retired from air defence.

For ground attack the basic FLIR and EW fit on the ROSE II/III are still very good for the South Asian context and give us an additional night attack ability but is still at least a generation behind the ASEL Pod and Sniper pods of the JF-17s and F-16s.

Ideally the Mirage needs it's own pod too but then you are adding more weight on.

True, but my contention is that Radar is almost secondary for the evolving role of the Mirages. If anything they need solid Comms (which if I am not mistaking they already have in the form of R&S SDR), solid networking capabilities hooking it into our NCW capabilities to tap into the SA picture and updated Nav/Attack systems as bomb truck for standoff weapons who’s primary role is to drop its payload and turn tail.

 

[Yasser76]

True, but my contention is that Radar is almost secondary for the evolving role of the Mirages. If anything they need solid Comms (which if I am not mistaking they already have in the form of R&S SDR), solid networking capabilities hooking it into our NCW capabilities to tap into the SA picture and updated Nav/Attack systems as bomb truck for standoff weapons who’s primary role is to drop its payload and turn tail.

Totally agree, but point is at some point the opportunity cost of equipping a old Mirage with these in terms of added weight and expedicture mean you may as well just wait for a year or two for JF-17s to replace the planes. This is what PAF seem to be doing as there is no major Mirage upgrade in the pipeline

 

[Bilal.]

Totally agree, but point is at some point the opportunity cost of equipping a old Mirage with these in terms of added weight and expedicture mean you may as well just wait for a year or two for JF-17s to replace the planes. This is what PAF seem to be doing as there is no major Mirage upgrade in the pipeline

I honestly think that point is about 10 years away.

 

[Yasser76]

I honestly think that point is about 10 years away.

Depends, if we really can produce 26 JF-17s a year then even with export order in 4-5 years most of the old Mirages and F-7Ps should be gone. Agree that the ROSE II/III maybe required to serve another decade

 

[araz]

Depends, if we really can produce 26 JF-17s a year then even with export order in 4-5 years most of the old Mirages and F-7Ps should be gone. Agree that the ROSE II/III maybe required to serve another decade

Yasser.
More than the production schedule and capacity issue it is simply a financial issue as well.Precisely the same reason applies to not replacing the M3/5s in the absence of a financially viable replacement solution. Secondly, looking at the block 3 production schedule they are suggesting producing just 12 a year. I am clueless as to the reasons for this.
Regards
A