Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Marker]

Some time back someone did mention low level ground attack missions that were carried out in an exercise in modern EW/threats environment. The result was that they do work even with modern radars/SAMs if planned carefully. However there is a steady rate of attrition - likely due to modern terminal air defenses and better radars.

Strategies are made on capabilities of available assets.

PAF is comparatively small Air Force as compared to IAF.

So our strategy is not only to preserve our valuable assets but also utilize them effectively and efficiently to inflict maximum destruction of enemy targets at the cost of negligible loss of valuable resources and time.

View attachment 604458

The figure above shows the uncomfortable ride that the Mirage-III offers at low level high speed flight. Profile characteristics won't be much different for Mirage-Vs either. The 0.5g bumps per min will affect the crew efficiency and the airframe as well.

But strangely PAF pilots managed to fly these aircraft so low on the sea surface during exercise "Inspired Alert" May 1995 penetrating successfully in the Carrier Task Force's early warning and perimeter defences of nuclear-powered USS Abraham Lincoln

 

[aliyusuf]

Strategies are made on capabilities of available assets.

PAF is comparatively small Air Force as compared to IAF.

So our strategy is not only to preserve our valuable assets but also utilize them effectively and efficiently to inflict maximum destruction of enemy targets at the cost of negligible loss of valuable resources and time.



But strangely PAF pilots managed to fly these aircraft so low on the sea surface during exercise "Inspired Alert" May 1995 penetrating successfully in the Carrier Task Force's early warning and perimeter defences of nuclear-powered USS Abraham Lincoln

It is not the Mirage that has been effective ... it's our pilots who are extraordinary. We have mastered this plane. Flying and H/W wise. But that doesn't mean we are not hindered by the platform's limitations. A better fighter will definitely offer much better results. At the moment we are making best of an unfavorable situation and have turned a disadvantage into an advantage. That takes some skill.

 

[Marker]

It is not the Mirage that has been effective ... it's our pilots who are extraordinary. We have mastered this plane. Flying and H/W wise. But that doesn't mean we are not hindered by the platform's limitations. A better fighter will definitely offer much better results. At the moment we are making best of an unfavorable situation and have turned a disadvantage into an advantage. That takes some skill.

I fully agree.

 

[Signalian]

What do you think, IAF will not revise its strategy!

They are already buying and integrating more of these assets.

After "formal" declaration of war PAF and IAF AEW&Cs will be in air 24/7.

Low level deep penetration night strikes is strategy of element of surprise.

PAF will carryout both day and night strikes.

However gaining element of surprise by carrying out Low level deep penetration night strikes is suicidal in presence of these modern radars and real time satellite coverage. (Indian Armed Forces do have such capabilities)

I will prefer to minimize losses of valuable assets during the conflict by utilizing them more efficiently and effectively.

SEAD/DEAD missions and taking out Command and Control air/sea/ground platforms should be the first priority of PAF.



I will prefer not to discuss exact current configuration of PAF and IAF assets because we do not have such access. I will only speak my point of view based on available info in normal channels.

Element of surprise is lost when war starts because enemy is expecting attacks, day or night.

Low level attack is suitable for contemporary bombers, which hints towards survival, not surprise.

View attachment 604458

The figure above shows the uncomfortable ride that the Mirage-III offers at low level high speed flight. Profile characteristics won't be much different for Mirage-Vs either. The 0.5g bumps per min will affect the crew efficiency and the airframe as well.

 

[aliyusuf]

Would we be flying at such slow speeds on all strike mission?
In some scenarios and situations it might work but not in all cases. And once the speed increases the number of bumps per minute will increase at low level.
So the PAF must have worked out something to make it effective but albeit with trade-offs/compromises.
Again, credit is with our pilots on making this machine work and work well.

 

[Marker]

Element of surprise is lost when war starts because enemy is expecting attacks, day or night.

Low level attack is suitable for contemporary bombers, which hints towards survival, not surprise.

It is the beauty of the strategy which a skillful commander effectively implements in the battle field.

Strategy of element of surprise is always there, only that great commanders know how to use it, when to use it where to use it and why to use it.

In the modern battle field, the fog of war is almost eliminated due availability of state of art radars and satellites.
Due to availability of this kind of real time situation awareness, element of surprise strategy is altogether evolved.

Fast and decisive response at your chosen time is one kind of element of surprise. The latest example was 27-2-2019.

Denial to access awareness of capabilities of your assets is another way of using element of surprise. PAF utilized both on 27-2-2019.

Correct awareness of strength and weakness of opponent is very important to design an effective element of surprise strategy.

IAF was well aware that PAF is going to retaliate because it was already announced by ISPR.

IAF was expecting PAF strike during night of 26-2-2019.

So IAF had AEW&Cs in air or otherwise on 27-2-2019 was their commander's decision.

How effective were these airborne radars against PAF EW platforms is another story.

 

[Signalian]

It is the beauty of the strategy which a skillful commander effectively implements in the battle field.

Strategy of element of surprise is always there, only that great commanders know how to use it, when to use it where to use it and why to use it.

In the modern battle field, the fog of war is almost eliminated due availability of state of art radars and satellites.
Due to availability of this kind of real time situation awareness, element of surprise strategy is altogether evolved.

Fast and decisive response at your chosen time is one kind of element of surprise. The latest example was 27-2-2019.

Denial to access awareness of capabilities of your assets is another way of using element of surprise. PAF utilized both on 27-2-2019.

Correct awareness of strength and weakness of opponent is very important to design an effective element of surprise strategy.

IAF was well aware that PAF is going to retaliate because it was already announced by ISPR.

IAF was expecting PAF strike during night of 26-2-2019.

So IAF had AEW&Cs in air or otherwise on 27-2-2019 was their commander's decision.

How effective were these airborne radars against PAF EW platforms is another story.

You can keep going in circles all day, however low altitude attacks will take place, its up to PAF to decide how. My concern is for airframe of Mirage-V which needs replacement.

Would we be flying at such slow speeds on all strike mission?
In some scenarios and situations it might work but not in all cases. And once the speed increases the number of bumps per minute will increase at low level.
So the PAF must have worked out something to make it effective but albeit with trade-offs/compromises.
Again, credit is with our pilots on making this machine work and work well.

That is up to PAF to decide, not me and you. The low altitude attacks have been seen in excercises too.How much low is low altitude, thats again up to PAF.

 

[StormBreaker]

You can keep going in circles all day, however low altitude attacks will take place, its up to PAF to decide how. My concern is for airframe of Mirage-V which needs replacement.


That is up to PAF to decide, not me and you. The low altitude attacks have been seen in excercises too.How much low is low altitude, thats again up to PAF.

Our pilots have been training for decades for low altitude attacks. It would be a pity to scrap away delta config from our fleet structure. Mirage 2000 is the need of hour

 

[Marker]

You can keep going in circles all day, however low altitude attacks will take place, its up to PAF to decide how. My concern is for airframe of Mirage-V which needs replacement.

That is up to PAF to decide, not me and you. The low altitude attacks have been seen in excercises too.How much low is low altitude, thats again up to PAF.

Airframe wear and tear mainly depends on users usage profile.

It is the timely preventive maintenance inspections which avoids catastrophic failures.

Manufacturers and refurbishers set the schedule for these type of inspections based on the airframe limitation such as max g limitation and speed limitations and users usage input. PAC as an authorized re-builder / refurbisher of Mirages is doing the same.

PAF is famous for optimum use of its air machines and will continue to do so.

As far as I know, there is no PAF Mirage crashed due to airframe failure.

Our pilots have been training for decades for low altitude attacks. It would be a pity to scrap away delta config from our fleet structure. Mirage 2000 is the need of hour


View attachment 604463

Considering Pakistan's current financial and economical conditions and ever changing global political situation, it is not viable to buy a new aircraft system even used one.

PAF strategy of buying used Mirage III/Vs, refurbishing their airframes and upgrading with suitable avionic suits is more viable solution then buying a new aircraft system.

 

[Viper27]

Apart from Egypt is there any other former operator from whom PAF could get parts/airframes?

 

[Zulfiqar]

Would we be flying at such slow speeds on all strike mission?
In some scenarios and situations it might work but not in all cases. And once the speed increases the number of bumps per minute will increase at low level.
So the PAF must have worked out something to make it effective but albeit with trade-offs/compromises.
Again, credit is with our pilots on making this machine work and work well.

The video is in slow-mo BTW.

 

[MastanKhan]

Would we be flying at such slow speeds on all strike mission?
In some scenarios and situations it might work but not in all cases. And once the speed increases the number of bumps per minute will increase at low level.
So the PAF must have worked out something to make it effective but albeit with trade-offs/compromises.
Again, credit is with our pilots on making this machine work and work well.

Hi,

That fly by is just to show off his flying abilities.

Normal speed would be around 500 knots---.

 

[CT-9914 "Snoop"]

Hi,

That fly by is just to show off his flying abilities.

Normal speed would be around 500 knots---.

*CGI, quite obvious from the surprisingly clean sound and the fact that no dust is kicked up in a sandy desert environment.

 

[Deltadart]

Apart from Egypt is there any other former operator from whom PAF could get parts/airframes?

Swiss

 

[Signalian]

Airframe wear and tear mainly depends on users usage profile.

It is the timely preventive maintenance inspections which avoids catastrophic failures.

Manufacturers and refurbishers set the schedule for these type of inspections based on the airframe limitation such as max g limitation and speed limitations and users usage input. PAC as an authorized re-builder / refurbisher of Mirages is doing the same.

PAF is famous for optimum use of its air machines and will continue to do so.

As far as I know, there is no PAF Mirage crashed due to airframe failure.




Considering Pakistan's current financial and economical conditions and ever changing global political situation, it is not viable to buy a new aircraft system even used one.

PAF strategy of buying used Mirage III/Vs, refurbishing their airframes and upgrading with suitable avionic suits is more viable solution then buying a new aircraft system.

I dont like going in circles, revert to post# 3027, second reply.