Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[Trango Towers]

It took 2 Mirages ( 1 with SOW and 1 to target ), additional JF17s and F16s to protect them to deliver just 1 SOW.......just 1.... a Rafale can deliver 2 SOW ( SCALPS ) and is capable of defending itself on the way in and out ...

When they visited IOK - the flaws in the Mirages were also exposed - it is incapable of targetting itself or defending itself and in a high intensity war when using SOWs - the flaws of the Mirage were also exposed alongside its success..

It is time to retire these relics and move onto J17s/J10Cs who have better capabilities to deliver SOW and to be able to defend themselves while doing it..

Loooool so because the used a 2nd aircraft for targeting it cannot target itself or defend itself.
You should be promoted to running the PAF. Wah je wah. I thought the shareef family were the only family lacking in Pakistan. Clearly I am wrong

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Loooool so because the used a 2nd aircraft for targeting it cannot target itself or defend itself.
You should be promoted to running the PAF. Wah je wah. I thought the shareef family were the only family lacking in Pakistan. Clearly I am wrong

These aircraft are no survival chance in the 21st century. Dropping the bomb and running away in such a small incident of a few minutes at the border is fine but if you talk about the WAR situation then no chances

Look at the Russian Su 25 performance in Ukraine WAR... it is an easy target for MANPADS.

Example - A mig 21 shoot down a Pakistan Navy Atlantic in 1999 but that does not mean that it is the best aircraft...

Russia, US, China - All are working on next-generation fighter - bomber........ there should be a few solid reasons, right?

 

[Tornado23]

These aircraft are no survival chance in the 21st century. Dropping the bomb and running away in such a small incident of a few minutes at the border is fine but if you talk about the WAR situation then no chances

Look at the Russian Su 25 performance in Ukraine WAR... it is an easy target for MANPADS.

Example - A mig 21 shoot down a Pakistan Navy Atlantic in 1999 but that does not mean that it is the best aircraft...

Russia, US, China - All are working on next-generation fighter - bomber........ there should be a few solid reasons, right?

In a full scale war, the gloves are off. If you think that such missions will be futile is a stupid thought.

Su25 are prey to MANPADs but thats because they are slow moving attack jets which are not using stand off weaponry. Its a CAS jet. On top of that the damn thing is a beast just like the A10. Ive seen 2 vids of where a su25 shrugged off a manpad hit.

Now the mirages which both Pakistan and India use for strikes are supersonic and use stand off weaponry. MANPADs will be ineffective for that. Medium and long range AD will be more effective but then again, it wont just be the mirages operating on their own.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

In a full scale war, the gloves are off. If you think that such missions will be futile is a stupid thought.

Su25 are prey to MANPADs but thats because they are slow moving attack jets which are not using stand off weaponry. Its a CAS jet. On top of that the damn thing is a beast just like the A10. Ive seen 2 vids of where a su25 shrugged off a manpad hit.

Now the mirages which both Pakistan and India use for strikes are supersonic and use stand off weaponry. MANPADs will be ineffective for that. Medium and long range AD will be more effective but then again, it wont just be the mirages operating on their own.

Bhai - PAF mirage is not a true multi-role fighter.....she needs to cover by other fighter aircraft as you said as well... they are incapable to defend against any Fighter Aircraft.

So in 21 century, during the full flesh war..... They will always be vulnerable ..........

It can be compared with IAF jaguar but Not IAF Mirage 2000 -5.....

IAF Mirage 2000 is one generation ahead. IAF Mirage 2000 is a multirole fighter plane and during the WAR - they can also defend to themselves.

Pakistan should replace these mirage fighters immediately and IAF needs to replace IAF Jaguar immediately. The survival of these fighters during the full war is very limited.

 

[Tornado23]

Bhai - PAF mirage is not a true multi-role fighter.....she needs to cover by other fighter aircraft as you said as well... they are incapable to defend against any Fighter Aircraft.

So in 21 century, during the full flesh war..... They will always be vulnerable ..........

It can be compared with IAF jaguar but Not IAF Mirage 2000 -5.....

IAF Mirage 2000 is one generation ahead. IAF Mirage 2000 is a multirole fighter plane and during the WAR - they can also defend to themselves.

Pakistan should replace these mirage fighters immediately and IAF needs to replace IAF Jaguar immediately. The survival of these fighters during the full war is very limited.

See @Hodor post regarding multi role fighter jets and strike packages.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

See @Hodor post regarding multi role fighter jets and strike packages.

BHai -on paper IAF Jaguar is also having the good Strike packages.... but as I said, they are not good enough in 21 century.

 

[Tornado23]

BHai -on paper IAF Jaguar is also having the good Strike packages.... but as I said, they are not good enough in 21 century.

What?

Okay lets back up. My point is talking about strike packages, stand off weaponry and the survivability of said fighter jets in a war. Your point is saying that such strikes are futile due to modern AD.

Im saying modern day SOW have changed how said air craft will operate and also the other force multipliers that will be used during the attack.

What is your point?

 

[Sinnerman108]

Only role mirages are fit to do is delivering RAADs/nuclear payload

Thats pretty much it..two squardons should suffice..rest should bw retired

Look at the Mirage's design,
It is designed to be fast, and carry as big a load as possible.
Which implies,
It will get in air fast, it will intrude enemy air space and deliver the payload.

Apart from that, other planes can do the job much better.

 

[Trango Towers]

These aircraft are no survival chance in the 21st century. Dropping the bomb and running away in such a small incident of a few minutes at the border is fine but if you talk about the WAR situation then no chances

Look at the Russian Su 25 performance in Ukraine WAR... it is an easy target for MANPADS.

Example - A mig 21 shoot down a Pakistan Navy Atlantic in 1999 but that does not mean that it is the best aircraft...

Russia, US, China - All are working on next-generation fighter - bomber........ there should be a few solid reasons, right?

Looool then come to Pakistan and take them on. Its an open door.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

What?

Okay lets back up. My point is talking about strike packages, stand off weaponry and the survivability of said fighter jets in a war. Your point is saying that such strikes are futile due to modern AD.

Im saying modern day SOW have changed how said air craft will operate and also the other force multipliers that will be used during the attack.

What is your point?

I want to look at a bigger perspective & Flush flesh war...

I would give the example of 1965, India was having technologically outdated Vampire Mk 52 fighter-bombers. Yes, they were able to drop the bombs in Pakistan during the raids but they were helpless against the latest PAF fighters. They were easy targets for PAF fighters..

It is the same case with the IAF Jaguar and PAF Mirage fighters.... They are equipped with max 30 KM range AA missiles.... MAX 2 missiles.. They are also outdated to protect Themselves even from the ground base Air defense missiles.

Now,

Looking at Super powers - USA/Russia, they definitely need the dedicated bombers fighters because they would have the complete stike package with the other Aircarfts.

But,
In countries like INdia & Pakistan, it would not be possible... as I said, dropping the bombs at the border and running away is fine but raids inside i.e 100, 400, 800 Kms ....... survival of these aircraft would be very difficult.

So, you need a multirole fighter plane like J10, Mirage 2000 and Rafale, that can drop the bombs on target and can deal with the hostile challenges.

To me -IAF jaguar and PAF Mirage are outdated a long ago.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Can you please shed some light on what is your understanding of "SEAD"?

 

[Talon]

Loooool so because the used a 2nd aircraft for targeting it cannot target itself or defend itself.
You should be promoted to running the PAF. Wah je wah. I thought the shareef family were the only family lacking in Pakistan. Clearly I am wrong

It would be better if you avoid political references and instead of making fun of someone's pov, try coming up with logical explanations..cheers!

BHai -on paper IAF Jaguar is also having the good Strike packages.... but as I said, they are not good enough in 21 century.

But but .. PAF Mirage's capabilities aren't just on paper rather they should their might in Swift Retort (they did their job successfully, no reference of war vs battle needed).

Mirage might not be multi-role but PAF is .. so rest of the fleet compliments where Mirages lack.

Coordination matters as much as capabilities, otherwise IAF had been successful in Balakot strikes.

In countries like INdia & Pakistan, it would not be possible... as I said, dropping the bombs at the border and running away is fine but raids inside i.e 100, 400, 800 Kms ....... survival of these aircraft would be very difficult.

So, you need a multirole fighter plane like J10, Mirage 2000 and Rafale, that can drop the bombs on target and can deal with the hostile challenges.

To me -IAF jaguar and PAF Mirage are outdated a long ago.

Oh it won't come to deep strikes .. even just after one strike from PAF almost ended up India sending it's missiles in Pakistan. So don't worry about Deep Strikes because either side will launch Ballistic or Cruise missiles within early hours.

Modern flight packages aren't as simple as 4 ship Rafael flight carrying out all tasks such as AA/AG/SEAD/EW. I have tried to explained this in detail on previous page please refer to that. Post #4976

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[Ali_Baba]

Loooool so because the used a 2nd aircraft for targeting it cannot target itself or defend itself.
You should be promoted to running the PAF. Wah je wah. I thought the shareef family were the only family lacking in Pakistan. Clearly I am wrong

You obviously have missed the point entirely ...

I will repeat again .. It took 4 Mirage pilots/navigators across 2 Mirage V’s to deliver 1 SOW.. just 1...

A single typhoon/rafale/f16 jet with 1 pilot can deliver 2 SOW/Cruise missiles and still carry with them Jammers, BVRs missiles to help complete the mission. It would take PAF 4 Mirage V's jets to achieve the same payload and with a total of 8 Pilots/navigators for those 4 Jets. And you think that is efficient deployment of airpower and pilots in 2022 ? Given how valuable pilots/navigators are - is that the most efficient utiisation of resources ?

Again - So - 1 IAF Rafale pilot can deliver as much destructive power as 4 Mirage Vs of the PAF with 8 pilots/navigators ....

How many missions does PAF need to generate to keep pace with aircraft like the Rafale, Typhoon, F16s in the deployment of SOWs or quite frankly anything else in a war ? The Mirages right now dont deliver enough bang for the buck when you consider how many trained pilots/navigators the platform requires to get a mission completed compared to more modern aircraft that can carry larger payloads and have more defensive capabilities built into them - that is why it is past its sell by date if you need to fight a high intensity war...

Why is this so difficult for people to understand ? Why do you struggle to understand ?

 

[Abid123]

Retire these 50 year old junk planes

 

[Signalian]

Can you please shed some light on what is your understanding of "SEAD"?

Blind them, take out radars.

DEAD - kill the SAM battery