Capabilities of PAF Dassault MIRAGE-III/V.

[araz]

I believe any discussion of interim fighter is moot at this point. Max resources seem to be going towards Navy. If one wants to 'follow' the logic of professionals in the armed forces, then the writing is on the wall. The naval threat exceeds even what IAF presents to land forces.

The only thing I find strange is the lack of (public) attention to the naval arm of PAF. It is my hope and prayer that once other naval assets are sorted out, the threat presented by Indian naval fighters will be considered. And my favorite for this role is Su-35. May Allah Help us and Guide us towards the right path. Aameen.

I think we have discussed this earlier. The problem with the SU35 is integration of a whole new set of armaments and spares whi h will be cost prohibitive. Now the support for J10C/ J11/16 is the fact that there is commonality in weapons and engines which makes life a lot easier for maintenance. This would not be the case for the SU which I absolutely and positively love. Now if we had a chinese AESA and fire control Radar in the SU , i do not think there would be much hesitation on the part of PAF to buy it. But otherwise there maybe better options available. The priority in my view is on HOBS, and HMCSs for our current platforms which will make them even more lethal.
A

 

[CriticalThought]

I think we have discussed this earlier. The problem with the SU35 is integration of a whole new set of armaments and spares whi h will be cost prohibitive. Now the support for J10C/ J11/16 is the fact that there is commonality in weapons and engines which makes life a lot easier for maintenance. This would not be the case for the SU which I absolutely and positively love. Now if we had a chinese AESA and fire control Radar in the SU , i do not think there would be much hesitation on the part of PAF to buy it. But otherwise there maybe better options available. The priority in my view is on HOBS, and HMCSs for our current platforms which will make them even more lethal.
A

The SU-35 represents a shift in the very fighting doctrine. Just as PAF got acquainted with fast and furious via F-16 in the 80s, they need to re-acquaint themselves with this modern high performance beast. So yes, even disregarding the infrastructure and weapons, this is a massive investment. And I argue that it is an investment we need. To the extent that even if we can buy just 6 as a first batch, we should go for it.

Integrating custom weapons is a matter of negotiations. I don't think the Russians will have any good reason to stop integration as long as their exports are not hurt. This means it is a matter of correct leverage. But even if we are allowed custom integration, I argue that PAF needs to onboard and understand Russian weapons - their flight profile, detection characteristics, lethality etc.

Finally, I argue that there is no good alternative to this. It is an investment that must be made for national security reasons. We need the Flanker platform to be a solid element of our forces for the next 50 years. Ideally, for the next 20 years, we maintain the F-16s through MLUs, acquire 200+ JF-17s, and three squadrons - around 50 in total - of flankers. In parallel, we need to pursue Azm. This is the bare minimum needed for national defence.

 

[araz]

The SU-35 represents a shift in the very fighting doctrine. Just as PAF got acquainted with fast and furious via F-16 in the 80s, they need to re-acquaint themselves with this modern high performance beast. So yes, even disregarding the infrastructure and weapons, this is a massive investment. And I argue that it is an investment we need. To the extent that even if we can buy just 6 as a first batch, we should go for it.

Integrating custom weapons is a matter of negotiations. I don't think the Russians will have any good reason to stop integration as long as their exports are not hurt. This means it is a matter of correct leverage. But even if we are allowed custom integration, I argue that PAF needs to onboard and understand Russian weapons - their flight profile, detection characteristics, lethality etc.

Finally, I argue that there is no good alternative to this. It is an investment that must be made for national security reasons. We need the Flanker platform to be a solid element of our forces for the next 50 years. Ideally, for the next 20 years, we maintain the F-16s through MLUs, acquire 200+ JF-17s, and three squadrons - around 50 in total - of flankers. In parallel, we need to pursue Azm. This is the bare minimum needed for national defence.

A few points. The russians will not agree to foreign weapons integration. If they do they will extract their pound of flesh as the main business comes from expendables like spares and weapons. If it works it might be better to get the Chinese AESA and FC Radar as this may e a better bet and would still allow us to integrate a weapon of our choice. However will the red bear agree? I think not.

 

[LKJ86]

A few points. The russians will not agree to foreign weapons integration. If they do they will extract their pound of flesh as the main business comes from expendables like spares and weapons. If it works it might be better to get the Chinese AESA and FC Radar as this may e a better bet and would still allow us to integrate a weapon of our choice. However will the red bear agree? I think not.

Impossible. It is the same to Su-35SK that PLAAF buys.

 

[punit]

SU.35... Again !!

 

[araz]

SU.35... Again !!

Yes but the unlikeliness of it rather than the likelihood of acquiring them.
A

 

[punit]

Yes but the unlikeliness of it rather than the likelihood of acquiring them.
A

Jokes aside...Pakistan should get J10 c/d without hesitation.

 

[Imran Khan]

Jokes aside...Pakistan should get J10 c/d without hesitation.

j-31 only nothing less

 

[punit]

j-31 only nothing less

Scotch na mile to vodka/ rum pi lena chahiye !!

 

[Sine Nomine]

Scotch na mile to vodka/ rum pi lena chahiye !!

Aur agar kuch be na miley tou desi tarah.

 

[Maxpane]

 

[Amigator]

j-31 only nothing less

It is highly likely that PAF wouldn't buy any Interim Fighter plane instead:

-- will upgrade JF17 block I,II (AESA radar, upgraded avionics package)
-- will induct JF17 block III in high number
-- will procure J-31 when possible and got mature
-- will enhance MALE UAVs fleet and possible JF17 style production series

period

 

[Shabi1]

It is highly likely that PAF wouldn't buy any Interim Fighter plane instead:

-- will upgrade JF17 block I,II (AESA radar, upgraded avionics package)
-- will induct JF17 block III in high number
-- will procure J-31 when possible and got mature
-- will enhance MALE UAVs fleet and possible JF17 style production series

period

spot on. Block-3 being further delayed does indicate they are now making more radical changes.

Azerbaijan is negotiating for AESA Block-2s rumored to be designated Block-2 Plus.

Looks like a attractive upgrade for PAF variants as well. Someone mentioned PAF will induct 12 more Block-2s besides the 12 JF-17Bs, while Block-3 still in development. Lets wait and see.

 

[Dazzler]

spot on. Block-3 being further delayed does indicate they are now making more radical changes.

Azerbaijan is negotiating for AESA Block-2s rumored to be designated Block-2 Plus.

Looks like a attractive upgrade for PAF variants as well. Someone mentioned PAF will induct 12 more Block-2s besides the 12 JF-17Bs, while Block-3 still in development. Lets wait and see.

Expect no radical design changes, rather capability updates.

 

[Shabi1]

Expect no radical design changes, rather capability updates.

Right design will be more or less same but internally a lot of differences. Expect in a way similar to Gripen C & Gripen NG.