Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[OguzSenturk]

Afaik it's a serial production project, not development project. Altay is already developed, and tested.

 

[Otonom Piyade]

The financiers behind the companies is irrelevant. What is important is to whom the rights to the tank belongs to.

The rights for Altay belong to SSM. They only give a company (in this case BMC) to manufacture and assemble the tank (not design it). If SSM was so inclined, they could decide to manufacture the whole tank in China and then import it. It would still be a Turkish tank. It would be 'Milli', but not so much 'yerli' because it would have been developed in China in this case.

If for instance Rheinmetal (with no Turkish partners) would've have opened a manufacturing line for Altay in Turkey and started manufacturing Altay, then Altay would in this case would be 'milli' as well as 'yerli' since the rights belong to SSM (Milli) and was produced in the country (yerli) even though the manufacturer is German. MAN busses are manufactured in Turkey right? These busses are not Milli (as they are German) but are yerli (as they are manufactured in Turkey).

FNSS and BMC are both Turkish companies. They may have foreign investors, but that still doesn't take away the fact that they are Turkish companies. That new BMC/Rheinmetal Joint Venture is a Turkish company as well, it was established with the purpose of doing business in Turkey and is based in Turkey. Sermaye dusmanligi yapmaya gerek yok.

Turkish strategy with any defence product that comes from SSM, TAI etc. goes like this:
They make the end product (Altay, Atak, Hurkus, etc)
The indigenous % is lower at the starting stages, but this percentage grows as time goes by.
The goal may not be 100% indigenous per se, but that at least the most important and strategic parts become indigenous as time passes.

That's why for Altay, the first batch of 250 was/is going to use a foreign engine, until an indigenous alternative is ready. We saw this with Anka's engine as well.

By the way, my favorite for this tender was FNSS. Second choice was Otokar. I don't mind BMC getting it. And yeah yeah, corruption this and that thats why BMC bla bla bla. Back when SSM gave Otokar the contract to develop Altay, Otokar wasn't the best choice either. FNSS had already experience with tracked vehicles, while Otokar hadn't. Obviously those guys at SSM had their reasons to choose Otokar over FNSS and ultimately it was a good choice.


No offence bro, almost every single one of your posts is speculation and conjecture. Azyr's post was pretty well written and transparent (he even highlighted the parts where he actually did speculate).

Well said... +1 post.

 

[Borg]

C'mon Otokar and Koc familiy fans or whatever, pls start to decry BMC contract:

Ismail Demir spoke exclusively to Anadolu Agency at the Eurasia Airshow:
Demir stated they target delivery of the tank within 18 months, with mass production to start with 250 units, adding that the production will be very fast.

He said the decision was made to start contract negotiations for Altay’s engine development project with Istanbul-based armored vehicle manufacturer BMC.

 

[OguzSenturk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/989442434336788480

Altay seri üretim projesini ve Altay motor projesini BMC aldıysa, RBSS ne iş ile uğraşacak? Kirpi falan mı iteklenecek RBSS'ye?

edit: forgot that topic is non-turkish place. Translation: What will RBSS do if BMC is the one who get both Altay serial production project and Altay power pack project? Would they get Kirpi and other lighter armored vehicle deals?

 

[timmy_area51]

Macalla turkie tank production lari

 

[CAN_TR]

https://twitter.com/x/status/989440446689611777

 

[-SINAN-]

Demir stated they target delivery of the tank within 18 months,

18 months is very ambitious as there is even no foundation have been laid for the factory that is going to produce Altay.

I'm not saying impossible but very hard to do so.

 

[timmy_area51]

is latay like the south korean tank ?

 

[Otonom Piyade]

18 months is very ambitious as there is even no foundation have been laid for the factory that is going to produce Altay.

I'm not saying impossible but very hard to do so.

AFAIK, the factory has already been established as there were rumours circulating in Sakarya region going back 12 months ago... So it would been completed.

 

[azyr]

So AKKOR won't be embedded at the factory level in the first 250 batch. Maybe the second batch?

Also does anyone know how long it typically takes to integrate a system like AKKOR to MBT's?

 

[Borg]

So AKKOR won't be embedded at the factory level in the first 250 batch. Maybe the second batch?

Also does anyone know how long it typically takes to integrate a system like AKKOR to MBT's?

Where have you been able to read that?

 

[azyr]

Where have you been able to read that?

Akkor isn't finished yet. If i remember correctly the first prototype should be handed over this year and mass production is scheduled for 2020. Since BMC aims to finish the first 250 batch in 18 months they can't integrate AKKOR at the production level for this batch. Am I missing something?

Maybe they'll use PULAT for these but I'd much prefer AKKOR as it's more advanced AFAIK.

 

[u.MP]

Akkor isn't finished yet. If i remember correctly the first prototype should be handed over this year and mass production is scheduled for 2020. Since BMC aims to finish the first 250 batch in 18 months they can't integrate AKKOR at the production level for this batch. Am I missing something?

Maybe they'll use PULAT for these but I'd much prefer AKKOR as it's more advanced AFAIK.

Original delivery date was planned for 2020 but it was changed and delivery will start in 2018 apparently.

http://defenceandtechnology.com/2018/03/11/aselsan-hiz-verdi-akkor-erken-geliyor/

 

[azyr]

Original delivery date was planned for 2020 but it was changed and delivery will start in 2018 apparently.

This is great news! I honestly wasn't aware. The acceleration is probably due to the Altay mass production then? I'm really hoping Altay at the front lines with AKKOR equipped by 2020.

 

[Inspector Spacetime]

This is great news! I honestly wasn't aware. The acceleration is probably due to the Altay mass production then? I'm really hoping Altay at the front lines with AKKOR equipped by 2020.

I think the acceleration is more because of urgent need, rather than development schedule for Altay. If they start delivery in 2018, than that probably means it will be implemented in the current inventory of tanks (Leopards and M60T's). But I'm just guessing here.