Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

[Adıvar]

I won't get involved into the politics of why Otokar is not looked favourably on tank production....

.. but your assumption of BMC being British Motor Corporation is incorrect. British Motor Corp. is now a defunct company that closed business many decades ago, while BMC is Turkish with partly Qatar ownership.

Right. It is a Qatar&Turkish ownership.

And BMC stands for "British Motor Company".

Look what i have found when Googling shares of Bmc:

https://odatv.com/bmc-751-milyona-satildi-sadece-arsasi-15-milyar-ediyor-0305141200_m.html

 

[Adıvar]

Does FNSS just assemble the parts of the vehicles ?
Otokar also just assembles the Cobra, Arma vehicles? What a easy job.

Not exactly..

Altay projesinde gorev alan firmalar:

1. Aselsan: Lazer uyarı sistemi, atış kontrol sistemi, Akkor aktif savunma sistemi
2. Hyundai Rotem: Teknolojik destek
3. MKEK: Top
4. Roketsan: Zırh
5. Ana yüklenici Otokar

Otokar'in özgün tasarimlari oldugunu biliyorum. Web sitelerinde görmüştüm.

 

[u.MP]

https://twitter.com/x/status/988775508900007936

 

[Buğra]

According to Anadolu Agency, BMC wins the tender. I dont know what to say

 

[OguzSenturk]

I hope we won't have to wait 2023 to finish these talks and they will start low rate production in 2019 at least..

 

[[TR]AHMET]

Projenin bence b.ku çıkacak ülke menfaati açısından BMC'nin seçilmesi bence şaibeli.

İhaleyi Otokara vermek mi yoksa KMW'yi projeye ortak yapmak mı daha iyi ?

Bu işten en çok kim karlı kim zararlı çıkacak?

Devletin bildiği ama bizim bilmediğimiz ne var merak ediyorum.

Şu atmosferde bu karar bana mantıklı gelmiyor inşallah zaman bizim yanıldığımızı gösterir.

 

[Adıvar]

25 Haziran
Geriye dönük bütün işlemler incelenecek.

No worry...

 

[-SINAN-]

https://twitter.com/x/status/988775508900007936

SSM tarafından yapılan değerlendirmeler sonunda, Altay tankının seri üretimi ve Altay tankına motor geliştirilmesi için başlatılan Güç Grubu Geliştirilmesi Projesi kapsamında BMC Otomotiv Sanayi ve Ticaret AŞ ile sözleşme görüşmelerine başlanması yönünde karar verildi.
https://aa.com.tr/tr/ekonomi/altay-tanki-ihalesi-sonuclandi/1126842

Okay, it's official now...Not only the production of the tank but also it's engine. If they can keep up with the schedule, deliver the tanks without any delay and drop in the quality there is no problem for me.

If you remember, Mehmet Emin Karamehmet was the previous owner of BMC, and they had stopped the production of Kirpis. After the company had been sold to Ethem Sancak production continued. So, although Ethem Sancak is the best buddy of Erdogan, he didn't fvck up with the company. So, BMC can also manage the serial production of Altay.

My only concern is the upcoming elections, it would have been better to leave this decision to after elections. If administration changes, there is great chance of cancellation of the deal since Ethem is the buddy of Erdogan.

 

[Borg]

Are there any additional info about deadlines for tank and also the engine? Will they wait till own engine is developed or will they produce first batch with german engines and then in second one use own engines? Very intressting.

 

[Khagan1923]

any delay and drop in the quality there is no problem for me.

I'm sorry but your hopes will be crushed. I see no hope for this project either it will get so delayed that it will make no sense to build them in great quantities that they will end the project after 10-20 tanks and buy foreign ones or the quality will be so bad that they will stop using them and stop the production. This project has been hold up on purpose the last 2 years so certain people can profit from it. 250 engines are waiting in a warehouse, we could have had 50-100 tanks already.

Germany hasn't even given the greenlight to Rheinmetall to work with BMC. And they probably will never give it unless Erdogan sacrificies something in return. So how is this choice logical? If Rheinmetall can't build it for you you have to train engineers and workers to be able to build the tank, which will set you back years, GG.

There isn't even a contract yet, so in case of a government change this project could change hands and probably will change hands.

 

[OguzSenturk]

250 engines are waiting in a warehouse

Um.. Wut? You mean we take engines of old tanks and use them in Altay, or what

 

[Khagan1923]

Um.. Wut? You mean we take engines of old tanks and use them in Altay, or what

No, we have 250 MTU engines. The first batch was always supposed to be build with them. And between that time a indigenous engine was supposed to be build.

https://twitter.com/x/status/988784904577191942

This has been the case since austria acted like little child two years ago. Germany only banned the further purchase of engines they can't invade Turkey and take those back we already had signed and bought.

 

[OguzSenturk]

Oh okay, but those 250 engines are not in Turkey. This is just plan for the first serial production batch. Personally i don't think that will be an easy adventure with German government.

 

[Borg]

No, we have 250 MTU engines. The first batch was always supposed to be build with them. And between that time a indigenous engine was supposed to be build.

https://twitter.com/x/status/988784904577191942

This has been the case since austria acted like little child two years ago. Germany only banned the further purchase of engines they can't invade Turkey and take those back we already had signed and bought.

I allready knew about those 250 engines but I'm not sure if they are allready delivered to TR and I don't believe they are but I hope I'm wrong! I think it is fine for TR to produce first 250 with german engines cuz that will anyway take few years which is enough to produce own engine for 2nd batch... will see

 

[Saithan]

Well, I think what bothers us all is that Turkey and turkish engineers hasn't produced an indigenous engine that can be used for tanks, APV, UAV etc. We were all hoping that one of the companies who are going to build Altay would also build indigenous engine for it. But to be fair not a single one of the bidders will commit to such a project without knowing that they can break even on the R&D and cost.

I did ask during the last AMA on reddit, and the answer was a confirmation of what I already found out in december. making an indigenous engine is all down to politics and money. AKP went ahead and pointed at a small firm who could not build an engine. But Koc Otokar is still there and got enough knowhow to start and finish it. That's the trust we place in that "assembly-line" upstart company.

Let's see what happens because I hope that regardless of who wins the engine project is probably a "must deliver" requirement. Perhaps the first 50-100 tanks will have foreign engine, but in that time the winner must have finished an indigenous engine that will be tested and used on the remaining 150, then if we need additional 250-750 tanks we can take it from there.