Air Chief Marshall PAF Plz return Capt Lutz uniform back to his family:--

[Windjammer]

As i said elsewhere, the Israelis for whatever reasons have denied this incident or having lost the named pilot.
So even if Pakistan was to hand back the item, how would the Israelis accept it.
Besides, the coverall was given to the PAF pilot by the Syrian government as an award for the achievement.

 

[Willy wolly]

we will declare war upon them when your beloved Arab brothers will declare war against India

War against India?? What wrong has India done to the Arab countries??
Is it some kind of ummah chumma???
Well they won't help Pakistan directly, indirectly maybe yes with fighters and resources.
Arab countries know what India is capable of...

 

[Reichsmarschall]

War against India?? What wrong has India done to the Arab countries??
Is it some kind of ummah chumma???
Well they won't help Pakistan directly, indirectly maybe yes with fighters and resources.

STFU Schmuck I didnt ask you

Arab countries know what India is capable of...

arresting spy pigeons

 

[CHI RULES]

I agree, uniform of soldier shouldn't be considered war trophy and we should stop making enemies on behalf of others when the others aren't ready to do same in return.

Who are others? ur post shows bitter reality that Muslims have lost their honor and pride.Perhaps some Muslims in Pakistan don't think Palestine cause as others issue.

 

[Trango Towers]

I hereby request the Air chief marshall of pakistan air force to please kindly return the COVERALLs / uniform of the deceased israeli pilot Capt Lutz to his family.

All families of dead soldiers need closure to the death of their loved ones---and specially of those that died on foreign land---.

A dead soldier's uniform is a trophy no more---. If it was his weapon---it would be okay---.

But to keep the clothing of a soldier---in a war---that was not ours---it does not look right.

So please---show courage and do the right thing---return his belongings---. maybe a sister---a brother awaits.

Whenbthey return Jerusalem and treat the Palestinians with dignity as humans. Until then we do not consider Israelis as human just as they do not consider us as human

 

[CHI RULES]

I hereby request the Air chief marshall of pakistan air force to please kindly return the COVERALLs / uniform of the deceased israeli pilot Capt Lutz to his family.

All families of dead soldiers need closure to the death of their loved ones---and specially of those that died on foreign land---.

A dead soldier's uniform is a trophy no more---. If it was his weapon---it would be okay---.

But to keep the clothing of a soldier---in a war---that was not ours---it does not look right.

So please---show courage and do the right thing---return his belongings---. maybe a sister---a brother awaits.

The sensible guy like u should not have given such remarks. The award given to Mr Alvi now has some message behind it along with the Israeli Pilots uniform. The message is strong and effective one for India and Israel.

The cannibals cannot be treated humanly. Perhaps in USA you are deaf to here cries of Palestine youngsters shedding their lives and same is case with Kashmiris. Even for last few days at least I am hearing continuous sounds of Marters in my house.

 

[Sugarcane]

Who are others? ur post shows bitter reality that Muslims have lost their honor and pride.Perhaps some Muslims in Pakistan don't think Palestine cause as others issue.

Those some Muslims needs to wake up from dream. Many times more people have lost their lives, limbs and eyes in Kashmir than in Palestine, What we got in return for crying for Palestinians is equating struggle of Kashmiris to terrorism. Palestine is problem of Arabs and Arabs have the power and resources to solve it if they are interested to do so.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@MastanKhan dear friend, old man,

A very noble and galant action it would be!

I don't have to tell you that at this junction Pak State can use some diplomatic points... especially in the US media with such a gesture.

When will your people see longer than their nose is?

Time for some coupe de grace... brilliant idea from your good self this!

I fear it is going to fall on deaf ears as usual.

Israel is not your natural enemy...why some in your good country are bent upon making it one?

When Gen Zia could use Israeli equipment in AF adventure and mullahs in Iran deal with them behind the scenes... why this hatred?

Time for thinking on grand geopolitical scale...in this world of geo-political/geo-economic flux.... Pak can and must carve out a niché for itself... how else would you ever be a Great Regional Power of Global Consequence?

I fear your elite will prove to be yet again what they are...

You keep trying, my friend!

Regards,

Mangus

 

[Taygibay]

Hence, if such an objection is made to the Pakistani military indulging in such activities then the same objection should be made under both Moral and Ethical minimal ideals to the country of residence or dual nationality.

I leave the above for others to decide their opinions.

Then my opinion is that personally I would
exclude uniforms from being used as trophy
unless collected in disarming captured troops.

As a soldier, you kill for a superior cause or in
self-defence but not out of hatred especially
since you usually do not know the enemy guy.

If that opinion was shared by my government
as a matter of moral policy (sic), I'd expect it
to be enacted regardless of what the USA do.
The USA or any other for that matter.

A moral standpoint is not a social convention.
You don't dilute it to please Jack 'n Jill.


Thanks for the well stated opening, Tay.

 

[niaz]

Who are others? ur post shows bitter reality that Muslims have lost their honor and pride.Perhaps some Muslims in Pakistan don't think Palestine cause as others issue.

Hon Sir,

Since this is an emotional matter, everyone would have different opinion. Most ordinary people love their country and would willingly die for her. Therefore in my view, soldier fighting against me was simply doing his duty and is no longer my enemy after he is dead; he is just a ‘War’ dead. Islam that I believe in, teaches me that body of the dead enemy soldiers are not to be mutilated and to be buried with dignity if possible.

War trophies are another matter, there is no compulsion or rules that these should be returned to the deceased families. However, if it is done, it would show magnanimity of the PAF Chief and generosity of the people of Pakistan.

Arab Air forces lost 442 aircrafts during 1973 Yom Kippur War and Israel 114. Shirt of a single Israeli dead pilot is hardly a symbol of ‘Honour’ for the Muslims. On the other hand, returning belongings to the family of a ‘War dead’ is more honourable. If it was the other way round and Israelis refused to return a Pakistani pilot’s belongings, it would simply indicate their bigotry and narrow mindedness.

http://www.oocities.org/capecanaveral/hangar/2848/losses.htm

However if to keep a dead pilot’s shirt makes some people ‘Proud’ and retuning it compromises “Honour” of the Muslim Ummah! Keep it till kingdom come.

 

[Mehmood usmani]

Israel is our enemy our desire of friendship not change the truth that israel is our enemy and will be

 

[niaz]

Israel is our enemy our desire of friendship not change the truth that israel is our enemy and will be

Returning the dead pilots' shirt does not indicate a desire for friendship. It simply indicates a generosity of spirit, nobility and compassion.

There was a time when Muslims were famous for these simple human Virtues. The great warrior Sultan Salahuddin Ayubi sent his own physician to treat Richard the Lion heart when he was sick. Salahuddin is admired for his chivalry all over Europe to this day. Abu bin Adham refused to give up his son’s killer because he had given him sanctuary in his tent.

Of course times have since changed attitude of the followers of the religion of peace.

 

[BATMAN]

Israel is our enemy our desire of friendship not change the truth that israel is our enemy and will be

Lately Pakistan have handed over an intruding submarine to India... if war trophy ever mattered, nothing could match an occupied submarine.
While a Person sacrificing his life in uniform is a worthy enemy and his family should know it and his society should promote uniformed men vs uniformed men, rather than those who come to wage war cowardly or the way Indian army fight with civilian Muslims population of India.

 

[fitpOsitive]

When it comes to Israel, what could be right or wrong? They prove you wrong when its in their interest, they even kill you when it comes to their intersts. They are different kind of creatures, not normal humans.
No need to show a goodwill gesture to them.

 

[SQ8]

Then my opinion is that personally I would
exclude uniforms from being used as trophy
unless collected in disarming captured troops.

As a soldier, you kill for a superior cause or in
self-defence but not out of hatred especially
since you usually do not know the enemy guy.

If that opinion was shared by my government
as a matter of moral policy (sic), I'd expect it
to be enacted regardless of what the USA do.
The USA or any other for that matter.

A moral standpoint is not a social convention.
You don't dilute it to please Jack 'n Jill.


Thanks for the well stated opening, Tay.

Then the same should be expressed by you for the French Military as well. Just to be morally fair.