PAF could have downed more Indian planes in Pulwama crisis: ex-air chief

[undercover JIX]

MOdi Ji said, agli dafa shtrike se pehlay cloud puja jaroor karni hai

 

[Suriya]

MiG-21 vs F-16 on 27th of February 2019​

 

[Tornado23]

MiG-21 vs F-16 on 27th of February 2019​

Oh for God sake, this crap again. This was uploaded on this forum before and was debunked before

The man doesn't look at all pieces of evidence from both sides, despite him claiming to do so, he mostly spoke about the Indian claim, and provided an extremely biased answer and review of the whole situation. The man is full of shit

 

[White privilege]

Oh for God sake, this crap again. This was uploaded on this forum before and was debunked before

The man doesn't look at all pieces of evidence from both sides, despite him claiming to do so, he mostly spoke about the Indian claim, and provided an extremely biased answer and review of the whole situation. The man is full of shit

He is reading from the 'script' he was sent. Copy pasted from Indian news channels. Indians thought they could get some traction for their fartshot claims if they could make a 'white person' speak it... White Privilege alive and well....

 

[MastanKhan]

Sohail Aman wasn't in command at that time. He would have done it am sure. It's widely said in PAF circles... That in Swift Retort, it was actuality ACM Sohail's PAF which actually fought, since his hard training and high standards came into play, not ACM Mujahid's.

Hi,

I knew that---.

Here is what I learnt----there was someone in the chain command who delayed the decision to 'go for it' by a few seconds---. I do not know how much truth is in it---.

If so---then---he kept his position safe---he knew that in the few seconds that he was 'supposedly thinking ' would give the opponent enough time to escape---.

He killed 2 birds with a stone---. People around him thought that this man did the right thing by thinking---but in truth the time taken to make the decision allowed the enemy to escape---. Win Win for him.

I remember an old MM ALAM quote which is somewhat like---" a paf pilot is ready for action---because all combat scenarios have been discussed before hand---"/

This scenario reminds me of what the americans used to say about Russian / Chinese pilots---who did not have a free hand---& had to SEEK PERMISSION from the base in every contact / combat situation and what they could do---.

Air combat---there is no time to call the base to request permission to call air chief to get permission---. Direct contact at operations should be of high enough level to grant permission right awa6y

All those scenarios should already had been discussed beforehand---.

The supposed big hot shot Air Marshall flying with the strike formation should have taken charge & taken control---. He missed his CALLING DEARLY.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[Wesen Hunter]

This AMRAAM was probably pulled off from a Su30MKI wreckage.

AMRAAM crashed right next to a village injuring a village resident, who promptly informed police after which cops came & secured AIM120 wreck and took injured man to a hospital.

It’s beating a dead horse by now but after 4 years Pakistan still has not provided any evidence of ever hitting yet alone downing any MKI. The question becomes, why if Pakistan claimed to hit an MKI they did not release any evidence?
Even F-16.net was forced to admit that their source was only Alan Warnes (a journalist with extremely extremely close ties to PAF for many years)
http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=57254&sid=4d6b2407eba5ac840c3211f2c80decfc

Even Alan Warnes admitted that his AFM article (Su-30 claim ) was entirely copied from PAF Kaiser Tufail blog.


So again, where is proof? It can’t be for “classified” reasons because even Americans often release proof of kills, or at the least the wreckage of kills claimed by America often is found. In Pakistan’s case not only have they not released any proof of anything but no wreckage has ever been found. We know the general area where the MKI was operating but no one found the wreckage, pilots or took video or photos.

So the MKI is 72’ in length, can hold up to 20,700lbs fuel, and can have a maximum take off weight of 76,000lbs but no wreckage? How does an aircraft that large just vanish? How would no one notice a fireball and smoke that would probably rise 500-1000+ feet? Is it a cover up? In that case why India did not cover up the MI-17 downing? India let hostile enemy civilians come up to the wreckage and even take photos. Ironically the MI-17 crashed only 250 metres outside an Indian paramilitary base, yet India could not and did not cover up the wreckage.

So to recap:

No HUD
No radar data
No satellite images of wreckage
No audio release of Indians acknowledging a downing
No identity of downed pilots
No tail number
No wreckage pics
No missing or dead fighter pilots
No smoke plumes or fireball
No photos of any kind
No videos
No witnesses
No acknowledgement from India (both officially or unofficially) of losing any MKI.




Recovery of AMRAAM remnants in Reasi. DGP rewards police party; EX VDC member, civilians
Dated : Mar 01, 2019


Jammu, March 01: On 27.02.2019 at about 1015 hours, a telephonic call was received from an Ex-VDC member that due to an explosion caused by an unidentified aerial projectile in village Mamankote Mallas, Tehsil Chassana one person viz Bagh Hussain S/o Ilam Din aged about 30 years R/o Mamankote, Reasi received grievous injuries. On this information, FIR No. 04/2019 u/s 3/5 Explosive Act, 307 RPC dated 27.02.2019 was registered at Police Station Chassana. Immediately a Police Party was rushed to the spot. After reaching the spot, the injured person was provided first aid by an accompanying pharmacist and with the help of locals, police shifted the victim to hospital for further treatment. SI Ali Imran, SHO P/S Chassana stayed back with his team for further investigation. He saw that impact of aerial projectile was so great that splinters were scattered around 50 to 100 mts. and a crater had formed and remnants of projectile were lying adjacent to the crater. Just adjacent to the crater a glass pile was lying. While minutely examining the site, SHO could make out something embedded in the said pile. As he fished it out, it was a body cover metal piece of the projectile weighing approx. 6/7 Kgs. AIM-120C-5, SERNO CC12497, 82577-3819625-104, MFR-15090 CONTRACT FA 8675-05-C-0070, GUIDED MISSILE AAV. Further search of markings on body cover metal piece (AIM-120C-5, SERNO CC12497, 82577-3819625-104, MFR-15090 CONTRACT FA 8675-05-C-0070, GUIDED MISSILE AAV) through open source information revealed that AIM-120C is an AMRAAM used by select category of Fighter planes including some used by Pakistan. Realizing the importance of the seizure, their digital pictures were immediately taken and shared with senior formations of the police which then was further shared with other agencies. Other components which were seized from the site were BATTERY 02 NO. RAYTHEON COMPANY, THERMAL BATTERY LI EAP-120115B, ONE SMALL PIECE BELONGING TO RAYTHEON COMPANY C/G, MISSILE, SECTION, MISSILE WPU-16/B; SOME SMALL PIECES OF PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD (PCB) TOTAL IN NO. 7/8 PIECES, WARNING- HIGH VOLTAGE, NO. JU-44 & TB1; BATTERY TRANSMITTER = 01 PIECE, MADE IN THE USA, CERAMIC CAPACITOR + 4/5 PIECES, CECO, LLC, SCRAP PIECES WEIGHING APPROX. 4/8 KGS. ABOUT 90/100 PIECES.
The time of occurrence coincided with the time when there was an alert on account of reports of attempt of incursions made into the Indian Territory by fighter planes of neighbouring country in the twin districts of Poonch and Rajouri thereby clearly establishing that Pakistan had used F-16 Fighter Planes while attempting incursions inside Indian Territory. As expert opinion into the recovery was required. Hence, as per directions of senior officers the seized material were handed over to local military representatives for further investigation of the seized material.
Senior Police Officers took no time to realize the importance of valuable information evidence and ensured its collection and sharing at all appropriate levels.
Medical and
paramedical assistance for the injured civilians has been arranged and the police party comprising the following:

1. Sub Inspector Ali Imran
2. HC Mohd. Iqbal
3. SgCt. Mohidin
4. SPO Bashir Ahmed
5. SPO Rash Pal Singh
6. SPO Rajinder Singh
have been given commendation and cash reward by the DGP for their prompt response to the incident and collection and seizure of relevant data and missile remnants which were shared with local army formations without any loss of time.
The civilian injured person namely Bagh Hussain S/o Ilam Din, the ex-VDC member and another civilian are also suitable rewarded for timely reporting in the case.

Recovery of AMRAAM remnants in Reasi DGP rewards police party; EX VDC member, civilians

Jammu & Kashmir Police - In the service of the Nation since 1873

www.jkpnewsportal.in

 

[Sayfullah]

Yes, one of the main reason. With a number of valleys in play, every valley deserves its own radar coverage... Like post Balakot, we started deploying MPDRs over vulnerable approaches.....

... And then, simply, lack of AD and radar assets. Priorities.... We have more sensitive targets south of Kashmir which deserve to be protected more.

Could radars of old out dated sams be used as a stop gap solution? Also, can ex fighter jet radars be used on ground instead of on a fighter jet. If all old JF-17 radars get replaced with AESA radars Pakistan will have 100+ radars it can convert to ground use radars and deploy them in valleys.

I am still perplexed. Some of you guys are saying PAF response was not enough?

PAF struck the ammo dump in very close proximity in Rajouri and Poonch sectors and had the video shown to everyone.

What other response were you expecting from PAF? Striking IAF airbases? Or striking more IAF jets?

The primary objective was to show the adversary that PAF can strike deep within IoK. The added bonus was Mig21.

In the end, the adversary did not go up the escalation ladder. The matter was done. From a strategic perspective further escalation would not have served either India or Pakistan.

Do not look at war from a perspective of settling scores. Look at it professionally from achieving strategic objectives.

The anger is over why didn’t the balakot strike package get shot down when we had the ability to do it.
Imagine the Spice 2000 didn’t miss their target and actually hit a madressa which killed hundreds of children? In that scenario you can forget about limited response. If hundreds of Pakistani children were killed that means WAR. If that isn’t enough for war then the military should be disbanded and given jobs in film industry instead.
Just imagine how much damage could have happened if the balakot strike package was successful in hitting their targets. Shooting down the strike package would have saved us from war because we always assume our enemies equipment is working 100% and assume they are competent.

 

[MastanKhan]

Could radars of old out dated sams be used as a stop gap solution? Also, can ex fighter jet radars be used on ground instead of on a fighter jet. If all old JF-17 radars get replaced with AESA radars Pakistan will have 100+ radars it can convert to ground use radars and deploy them in valleys.

Sir / Son,

Those radars are obsolete---old---run down---finished their lives---.

We have very able and capable radars for valleys and mountains---.

 

[undercover JIX]

Sir / Son,

Those radars are obsolete---old---run down---finished their lives---.

We have very able and capable radars for valleys and mountains---.

This made up excuse of not having enough Radar coverage is childish and absurd.

 

[undercover JIX]

SU-30 MKI Shot Down AMRAAM Missiles Fired From Pakistan’s F-16’s: Indian Air Force​

ByEurAsian Times Desk

March 8, 2019

The Indian Airforce says that it shot down AMRAAM Missiles fired from Pakistan’s F-16 Fighter Jets. The AMRAAM Missiles allegedly missed their intended targets and in fact, one of them was shot down by an IAF Sukhoi Su-30MKI air dominance fighter.

 

[PanzerKiel]

SU-30 MKI Shot Down AMRAAM Missiles Fired From Pakistan’s F-16’s: Indian Air Force​

ByEurAsian Times Desk

March 8, 2019

The Indian Airforce says that it shot down AMRAAM Missiles fired from Pakistan’s F-16 Fighter Jets. The AMRAAM Missiles allegedly missed their intended targets and in fact, one of them was shot down by an IAF Sukhoi Su-30MKI air dominance fighter.

US Air Force one One is probably fitted with active electronic counter measures, that are able to jam enemy radar frequencies as well as IRCM (Infrared Counter Measure) systems needed to divert heat seeking Infra Red missiles by disturbing their guidance systems.

The one in use on the AF1 is the AN/ALQ-204 Matador produced by the BAe Systems. Such systems protect the plane from both IR air-to-air and ground-to-air (MANPADS – Man Portable Air Defense Systems) missiles.

The plane is also equipped with chaff and flares dispensers: the first type is used to divert radar-guided missiles, while the flares are high-temperature heat sources ejected from the aircraft’s dispensers to mislead the missile’s heat-seeking targeting system: since the burn temperature is hotter than that at the engine’s exhaust the burning flares attract and deceive heat-seeking missiles fired at the aircraft.


Allegedly, the same defensive suite is also installed on all the MKIs....this enabled then to dodge multiple missiles and shot down some of them.

 

[undercover JIX]

US Air Force one One is probably fitted with active electronic counter measures, that are able to jam enemy radar frequencies as well as IRCM (Infrared Counter Measure) systems needed to divert heat seeking Infra Red missiles by disturbing their guidance systems.

The one in use on the AF1 is the AN/ALQ-204 Matador produced by the BAe Systems. Such systems protect the plane from both IR air-to-air and ground-to-air (MANPADS – Man Portable Air Defense Systems) missiles.

The plane is also equipped with chaff and flares dispensers: the first type is used to divert radar-guided missiles, while the flares are high-temperature heat sources ejected from the aircraft’s dispensers to mislead the missile’s heat-seeking targeting system: since the burn temperature is hotter than that at the engine’s exhaust the burning flares attract and deceive heat-seeking missiles fired at the aircraft.


Allegedly, the same defensive suite is also installed on all the MKIs....this enabled then to dodge multiple missiles and shot down some of them.

One thing is for sure, that Indian MIGs and SUs are better equipped than AF1.

As far as shooting down AMRAAM is concern, I am not sure how it was done. not doubting IAF skills you know.

Did MKI outran the missile and then did Cobra maneuver to get behind the missile?

or One MKI was keeping missile on its tail and rest surrounded the missile and than shot down?

How this AMRAAM was shot down, by Gun, missile or some secret weapon?

I just want to learn, please help. whoever can

 

[PanzerKiel]

One thing is for sure, that Indian MIGs and SUs are better equipped than AF1.

As far as shooting down AMRAAM is concern, I am not sure how it was done. not doubting IAF skills you know.

Did MKI outran the missile and then did Cobra maneuver to get behind the missile?

or One MKI was keeping missile on its tail and rest surrounded the missile and than shot down?

How this AMRAAM was shot down, by Gun, missile or some secret weapon?

I just want to learn, please help. whoever can

I've found it... Tail gunner
MKI has a three man crew for a reason.

 

[undercover JIX]

I've found it... Tail gunner
MKI has a three man crew for a reason.

View attachment 912464

I must remind you, we are in a very serious discussion.