Why does our Navy fail so horribly?

[JonAsad]

But the problem is we don't have destroyers
We classify our frigates as destroyers

wtf- PNS alamgir and PNS shamsheer are freekin frigates?-
Our navy sux-

 

[blackops]

he is talking about the destroyers we already have-

pns babur is not a destroyer but a frigate a type 21 frigate

---------- Post added at 02:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:24 AM ----------

wtf- PNS alamgir and PNS shamsheer are freekin frigates?-
Our navy sux-

no its a Oliver Hazard Perry class of guided-missile frigate of us navy its gone quite old man

 

[JonAsad]

pns babur is not a destroyer but a frigate a type 21 frigate

-
now i know ex destroyers are used as frigates in PN-

 

[blackops]

as for PNS Zulfiquar ITS ALSO A FRIGATE having a displacement of 2500 tons

---------- Post added at 02:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 AM ----------

-
now i know ex destroyers are used as frigates in PN-

uts other way round ex frigates are used as destroyers in PN

 

[JonAsad]

^^ seems like i hv lost it- time to sleep -

 

[NeutralCitizen]

My friend , you are comparing apples and oranges.

The 200 vessels of Iranian Navy are nothing but small boats.

Pakistan Navy vessels are Frigates and Destroyers.

Similarly, the Iranian submarines are MIDGET Submarines produced in Iran that has a crew of 5 to 10 crew members.

Pakistani submarines are large Submarines with a crew of 55 sailors and officers.

Ofcourse Global power only counts total vessels and does not compare the lethality or firepower of the vessels.

Similarly iranian Air Force flies third generation obsolete aircrafts from the 1970's.

I think Iranian defensive capability is vastly overstated.

Turkey is however a much stronger Military force by comparison, but then again their Defence Budget is 30 Billion USD as opposed to 5 Billion of Pakistan Armed forces.

100% true also when you have economic growth it will change.

 

[alimobin memon]

Guys but pakistan has small fleet just because of embargoes. since few years back pakistan navy is becoming alot stronger
and according to some sources pakistan navy operates stealth class navy ships now . Just wait we will get more surprises

 

[zer_0]

Guys but pakistan has small fleet just because of embargoes. since few years back pakistan navy is becoming alot stronger
and according to some sources pakistan navy operates stealth class navy ships now . Just wait we will get more surprises

surprising!!!!!!!..............

can u mention name of the ship...type

 

[Archie]

My opinion is that Pakistan should ask the chines for some Second Hand Destroyers , Preferably something less than 25 yrs old

Instead of spending money on 4000 TON Defanged OHP

Like I said
PN should have 10 Modern Frigates , 3-4 Second Hand Destroyers , 10 FAC , 20 Patrol Boats ,9 SSK ,6 Minesweepers , 1-2 second Hand LPD like INS Jalashwa , 8-12 Fleet Auxiliaries , 24 JF17N , 20 ASW Helis , 30 LUH , 6 ASW Aircrafts , 5-6 AEW Helis

However all this will cost 12-15 Billion USD AND WILL TAKE TILL YR 2020 TO ACHIEVE

My advice would be Kick Zardari out , Elect Imran Khan with 2/3rd Majority ,and u might achieve this even before 2020

 

[Shinigami]

surprising!!!!!!!..............

can u mention name of the ship...type

stealth class PNS Chupke

 

[Mech]

i can assure you gentlemen that at any point, eyes and ears are open. PN will not allow the power balance to be overtly disturbed. For every action, there would be opposite and ''minimally proportional -as required'' reaction.

they wont just sit idly...yes it's true that the neighbour country's navy is expanding rapidly --certainly beyond its requirements. It would be viewed and treated as troublesome.

Rest assured, your assurances does not possess any assured value. Its like a fart in the wind. There is no "overly disturbed power balance"....if you want comparison...you ought to try comparing the Indian coast guard to the PN...rather than the IN....that might even the scales a bit.

 

[Shinigami]

Rest assured, your assurances does not possess any assured value. Its like a fart in the wind. There is no "overly disturbed power balance"....if you want comparison...you ought to try comparing the Indian coast guard to the PN...rather than the IN....that might even the scales a bit.

Indian coast gaurd

In Service: 93 ships

Sankalp class Advanced Offshore Patrol Vessel India 2300 tons 2 [12]
Samar class Advanced Offshore Patrol Vessel India 2005 tons 5
Vishwast class Offshore Patrol Vessel India 1800 tons 2
Vikram class Offshore Patrol Vessel 1220 tons 9
Samudra class Pollution Control Vessel(PCV) India 3300 tons 1
Jijabai Class Inshore Patrol Vessels 200 tons 13
Vadyar Class Interceptor Craft 2.4 tons 8
Bristol Class Interceptor Craft 5.5 tons 4
Interceptor Boat India 32 tons 12
Fast Patrol Vessel 215 tons 15
Extra Fast Patrol Vessel (XFPV) India 270 tons 7
Seaward Defence Boat 203 tons 2
Inshore Patrol Craft Republic of Korea 32 tons 5
Air Cushion Vehicle (Hovercraft) United Kingdom N.A. 6
Under Construction/Order: 80 ships
Sankalp Class Advanced Offshore Patrol Vessel India 2230 tons 1 being built
Vishwast class Offshore Patrol Vessel India 1800 tons 1 on order
Samudra class Pollution Control Vessel(PCV) India 3300 tons 2 being built
Rani Abbakka Class Inshore Patrol Vessel India 275 tons 2 being built
+ 6 on order
Interceptor Boat India 75 tons 1 being built
+ 5 on order
ABG fast interceptor crafts Interceptor Boat India 75 tons 9 built+ 2 on order
Air Cushion Vehicle (Hovercraft) United Kingdom N.A. 12 on order
(Hydrofoils) United Kingdom N.A. 12 on order
L&T fast interceptor crafts Interceptor Boat India 36 on order L&T
Cochin Fast Patrol Vessels Fast Patrol Vessels (FPV) India 20 on order Cochin
[edit]Aircraft inventory
Aircraft Origin Type Variants In service[13] Notes
HAL Dhruv India Utility helicopter 4
HAL Chetak India Utility helicopter 18
Dornier Do 228 Germany
India Maritime Surveillance
Search & Rescue Do 228-101 24 18 built by HAL

 

[Shinigami]

interesting fact:

During the 17th and 18th centuries, the Maratha and Kerala fleets were expanded, and became the most powerful Naval Forces in the subcontinent, defeating European Navies at various times

Hence, we can conclude that unlike (southern) india, pakistan has no legacy of naval warfare. if , however, pakistan inherited S. india during partition, things would have been very different.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

The bottom line is that we spend too little on the navy as compared to other services. There is very little appreciation of the role of navy in the overall strategic planing. One of the biggest reason for this is the short duration of our past wars.

The 71' war should have been an eye opner but after the creation of Bangladesh, the role and mission area of PN shrank signifcantly. Hence, a further reduction in developing a more robust maritime challenge to our next door neighbours.

PN mission dimension and capability to operate in various envirnoments has imporved over the years but it has been a yo-yo ride. The 80' saw our fleet expand to over 14 major surface combatants. The late 90's saw it reduced to 10 surface combatants. The new century saw this number further deplete to just six! We are now commnig back into stride with the addtion of four surface platforms and another one on its way.

However, one must appreciate that during the above mentioned time frame, PN's air capability has steadily grown by the addition of Atlantics, Fokkers, later on Orion's, and the dedicated strike squadron. While our surface combatant fleet has shrunk, an attempt has been made to cover the gap through inner cordon defence by the strike element. A purely defensive move given th resources allocated.

The sub-surface element, untill very recently has held its own. We have shrunk to five boats as compared to a high of six (operationaly it was five as one of the Daphne the ex Portugese boat-- I am not sure of the name, was invloved in a minor accident, if I remember it correctly, and was not deployed fully, in the later half of the 80's due to suspected hull integrity issues).

The same time-period saw us deploying ASROC's, SM-1, Harpoons, and the Chinese C Series AShM's. The ASROC's and SM-1 were later withdrawn after th return of the Brooks/Garcia mix.

I believe that PN has, under the given circumstances, tried to upgrade its capabilties using a mix of options to carry out its basic mission, sea denial around our ports and major shipping lanes.

We keep on comparingg PN with IN which I believe is unfair given the larger/extensive mission objectives of IN including sea control and power projection in the Indian Ocean inl ine with the strategic objectives of Republic of India and its desire to atleast become the regional power and rival to China in the region. Their parity race is in terms of surface and subsurface units that can deployed in the Indian Ocean, between China and India. We can not and if I may say so, should not indulge in this game of numbers or systems in this race -- we will be loosers by a long shot.

PN has always had a limited mission restricted to the protection of its EEZ and key shipping routes. Only very recently, has PN seen patroling missions down to Madagascar as part of the two CTF's. The OHP's were part of the commitment given by US to Pakistan to ensure PN's participation in patrolling the Indian Ocean without undermining its capability in the easters Arabian Sea.

Memebers here might argue that why we can not have power porjection and the goal of sea control etc. Well if that the question than the answer is simple -- let us first get our house in order and than see what can be projected and how far. Maintaining a blue water Navy is an expensive game that needs to be backed up by a strong enconomic activtiy hovering around our industrial base. Sadly, after sixty odd years, we are still basically an argrarian economy.

The game is all about economics -- all other things come later. This is not the time or the age of Imperialism or mercantilism.

 

[Shinigami]

The bottom line is that we spend too little on the navy as compared to other services. There is very little appreciation of the role of navy in the overall strategic planing. One of the biggest reason for this is the short duration of our past wars.

The 71' war should have been an eye opner but after the creation of Bangladesh, the role and mission area of PN shrank signifcantly. Hence, a further reduction in developing a more robust maritime challenge to our next door neighbours.

PN mission dimension and capability to operate in various envirnoments has imporved over the years but it has been a yo-yo ride. The 80' saw our fleet expand to over 14 major surface combatants. The late 90's saw it reduced to 10 surface combatants. The new century saw this number further deplete to just six! We are now commnig back into stride with the addtion of four surface platforms and another one on its way.

However, one must appreciate that during the above mentioned time frame, PN's air capability has steadily grown by the addition of Atlantics, Fokkers, later on Orion's, and the dedicated strike squadron. While our surface combatant fleet has shrunk, an attempt has been made to cover the gap through inner cordon defence by the strike element. A purely defensive move given th resources allocated.

The sub-surface element, untill very recently has held its own. We have shrunk to five boats as compared to a high of six (operationaly it was five as one of the Daphne the ex Portugese boat-- I am not sure of the name, was invloved in a minor accident, if I remember it correctly, and was not deployed fully, in the later half of the 80's due to suspected hull integrity issues).

The same time-period saw us deploying ASROC's, SM-1, Harpoons, and the Chinese C Series AShM's. The ASROC's and SM-1 were later withdrawn after th return of the Brooks/Garcia mix.

I believe that PN has, under the given circumstances, tried to upgrade its capabilties using a mix of options to carry out its basic mission, sea denial around our ports and major shipping lanes.

We keep on comparingg PN with IN which I believe is unfair given the larger/extensive mission objectives of IN including sea control and power projection in the Indian Ocean inl ine with the strategic objectives of Republic of India and its desire to atleast become the regional power and rival to China in the region. Their parity race is in terms of surface and subsurface units that can deployed in the Indian Ocean, between China and India. We can not and if I may say so, should not indulge in this game of numbers or systems in this race -- we will be loosers by a long shot.

PN has always had a limited mission restricted to the protection of its EEZ and key shipping routes. Only very recently, has PN seen patroling missions down to Madagascar as part of the two CTF's. The OHP's were part of the commitment given by US to Pakistan to ensure PN's participation in patrolling the Indian Ocean without undermining its capability in the easters Arabian Sea.

Memebers here might argue that why we can not have power porjection and the goal of sea control etc. Well if that the question than the answer is simple -- let us first get our house in order and than see what can be projected and how far. Maintaining a blue water Navy is an expensive game that needs to be backed up by a strong enconomic activtiy hovering around our industrial base. Sadly, after sixty odd years, we are still basically an argrarian economy.

The game is all about economics -- all other things come later. This is not the time or the age of Imperialism or mercantilism.

you have left out the value of submarines, as they have the ultimate sea denial capability which may be needed to decrease the chance of an IN blockade in case of a war, since 90% of pakistan's supplies come from that single sea route.

Besides, IN have shown no hesitation to take such an action. this can be seen in 2001 when their ships were on standby near karachi, when war was in the air. Also the same thing happened during operation brasstacks (1987) when both Vikrant and viraat battlegroups were on standby near Karachi. (Hope u know about brasstacks)