what will be pakistan's answer to rafale

[Kal Muah]

Don't cover your stupidity by calling other stealing. Ignorant to the most. You can even reverse a bolt when others present the whole platform to you. Can you even build a Mig21 variant? No even a rifle and bullet proof jacket.

Yeh, we Indians stand on the high morale ground and never copy?! Oh you just too not clever enough to copy.

For anyone giving technical perspective, you have replied it with rants and how china is awesome. If you have zero knowledge in defence, dont bother posting with rants, back it up with facts and technical posts, not hello! china is awesome, and hey! we build our economy in a decade.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Well, at the moment JF 17 is not equivalent to Rafale but yes JF 17Block 3 would be something to compete and beat this vulture.

 

[Pindi Boy]

Lets just put things in Prespective


_____________Rafale ------------------------ vs ------------------JF Thunder

Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft) -------------------------------------------Length: 14.93 m (49 ft) ------------------(Tie)

Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)----------------------------------------Wingspan: 9.45 m ------------------------(Tie)

Empty Wight 10,300 kilograms (22,700 lb)----------------------Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)--- THUNDER

Loaded weight: 15,000 kilograms (33,000 lb)------------------Loaded weight: 9,100 kg (20,062 lb)---- Rafale

High Speed : Mach 1.8 (1,912 km/h, 1,032 knots)------------speed: Mach 1.8 (1,370.2 mph; 2,205.1 km/h)--Thunder

Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi) with 3 drop tanks ---------Combat radius: 3,482 km --------------Tie

BVR -----------------------------------------------------------------------PL-12 / SD-10 (Beyond visual range) -----Tie

AESA ----------------------------------Arriving Soon ---------(Momentary advantage)

Targeting pod (Yes) -------------------------------------------Yes (Tie)

Fancy Helmet (Yes)---------------------------------------------(Momentary advantage)


Number of Jets INDIA (0) --------------------------------------Pakistan (65)

Rafale has better BVR Meteor has range of 300+km while SD-10 has range oF 100 km Rafale will shot down JFT way before JFt see rafale ...Rafale can carry more AAM as compare to JFT's 4 AAM....

 

[Akasa]

Proven means battle tested .Simple .
Give me at least one example that Chinese fighters take part ,at least against rag tag militia .Then we can say about that .
Simulation and imagination are good .But war proven is a different thing .

I made this very clear in my previous two posts; the virtue of being "combat tested" rarely, if ever, has an effect on an aircraft's capabilities. This is because the collection of performance data, as well as any improvements implemented as a result thereof, would have been completed during the many years of flight testing and evaluation (which are done by both the company and the customer).

The Rafale's specifications after Syria/Libya/etc remain exactly the way they were before the war.

Paces ??
Paces give you quality??I dont think so .
Russians and West , at their golden age took same time frame for achievements .
US took 30 years to conceive and develop a fifth gen fighter .
And our Chinese accomplished that within one decade with stolen details .Brilliant idea but how can this world trust such ideas .
USSR also had these same discipline and aggressivnes perhaps more than Chinese .Yet they take several decades for completion.

So you do acknowledge that nations/corporations move at different paces. However they go about attaining that pace is a different story.

Chinese didnt do any research but stolen those details .But Russians and West developed their own platform with their own hard work.And you can see that in their A to Z factors .
Chinese achievements was in copy pasting like J 11 etc .
Good .Anyone can do that .But will they give entire merits and demerits of those design (found out original developers )?

I dont think so .
That is why I said you cant replace decades of headstart with heaps of currency.
Experience is a different thing .Copying is another thing .

Despite allegations of Chinese hacking, it is quite laughable to assume that development of Chinese combat aircraft consisted of merely copying & pasting blueprints. You wouldn't need 8 years of development, including designing, subsystems development, and finally flight testing, if that were the case.

Then why would they burn such an amount of money .Why couldnt you opt for Mig 35 ,if there was no 'needs' ??
S 400 is particularly for SCS and Su 35 is even better than everything Chinese until now .

Whatever helps you sleep at night, sir. As for technical comparisons, I think I'd better hold off on such an undertaking until we get verifiable data regarding the respective systems.

 

[Stannis Baratheon]

Wait for the J-16. China is working on it and they bought the Su-35 to help develop it.

 

[batmannow]

Rafale has better BVR Meteor has range of 300+km while SD-10 has range oF 100 km Rafale will shot down JFT way before JFt see rafale ...Rafale can carry more AAM as compare to JFT's 4 AAM....

best pakistan counter IAF / inductions into its airforce inventory are 3 best options .

1.SU*35S
2.J 20
3.J 31

pakistan has to select one of them to match not only Rafael but all other future Indian airforce purchases ?
I.SU*35 & 2 .J 20S looks ready to purchase & use but with all the talks about J.31S it's still stands far from induction level .

but SU *35 with its 4.5++ generation stands as the super beast in the air .

 

[KN-1]

1.SU*35S

India have more experience on flankers .. India is upgrading its fleet of SU-30mki to super sukhoi (Su-35 level).. what let u think that PAF will buy similar plane or Chinese equivalents like J_11? the only option left is Eurofighter with AESA and meteor...

According to Chinese member J-31 will get FOC in 2025..

J-20 is not for export..

https://defence.pk/threads/sac-fc-31-stealth-aircraft-development-news-discussions.207796/page-130

 

[Akasa]

Wait for the J-16. China is working on it and they bought the Su-35 to help develop it.

It was developed from the J-11BS, not Su-35.

 

[dy1022]

J10C - AESA+IRST+14T WS-10B engine+BVR+...

some idiots keep saying here that XXX's range is more than 300KMs, can Rafale's radar lock someone in the range of 300KMs? If it can't do that by a far more powerful radar in Rafale, so how the fcuk can the missile's fcuking small radar lock someone in the range of 300KMs away???

 

[SrNair]

Don't cover your stupidity by calling other stealing. Ignorant to the most. You can even reverse a bolt when others present the whole platform to you. Can you even build a Mig21 variant? No even a rifle and bullet proof jacket.

Yeh, we Indians stand on the high morale ground and never copy?! Oh you just too not clever enough to copy.

Stealing will be always known as stealing .You cant say that is a borrowing .
If copying others without any shame is criteria for IQ ,sorry we dont have that much IQ .

We took a lots of efforts ,publicly announced success and failure of our projects.
We were the first one from Asia and first in attempt that completed an interplantery Mars mission successfully .
We will always have that high moral ground .Chinese can cry about that .

I made this very clear in my previous two posts; the virtue of being "combat tested" rarely, if ever, has an effect on an aircraft's capabilities. This is because the collection of performance data, as well as any improvements implemented as a result thereof, would have been completed during the many years of flight testing and evaluation (which are done by both the company and the customer).

The Rafale's specifications after Syria/Libya/etc remain exactly the way they were before the war.



So you do acknowledge that nations/corporations move at different paces. However they go about attaining that pace is a different story.



Despite allegations of Chinese hacking, it is quite laughable to assume that development of Chinese combat aircraft consisted of merely copying & pasting blueprints. You wouldn't need 8 years of development, including designing, subsystems development, and finally flight testing, if that were the case.



Whatever helps you sleep at night, sir. As for technical comparisons, I think I'd better hold off on such an undertaking until we get verifiable data regarding the respective systems.

How do you know that it is still remain exactly as before the war ?

Different paces by sacrificing quality .Sorry we dont interested .


Shenyang J 11 is in there .

It is a truth .It was a logical question .If burning the money was the aim to support Russia then why couldnt you support much needed Mig series .

Pls stop that bias right there ?
Buying weapons is solely a matter of armed forces & their think tanks ?
In 90s bb govt ordered F*16s which we got in shape of rotted wheat ?
You think it was bb , who knew about F*16s ?
Sorry the crouption happens to be everywhere some where less & some where huge ?
Yes our politicians are croupt to the their cores but then few kick back getters in our armed forces also used to be found , here & then ?
We should be against all of such nonsense ?
& shouldn't point our finger only at one direction ?
Western equipment & their quality came as shocking slap , to soilders like me in kargill , when that super duper F* 16s weren't able to defend us ?
Thus proving the foolness persists among our armed forces & their high command ?


If one sided battles like operation desert Strom is in your counting then count SU-34 bieng used in sirya by Russians ?
Isn't that make it , battle tested ?


Buy raffales & beg Russia for the rest of Indian airforce armed with , SUs ,MIGS ?
BJP sarkar never knew , about military equipment , thus George fernandis types make money from the cofins of the dead Indian soilders in kargill ?
Its was the dumbest strategic decesion of the modi sarkar that pissing off Russia the main arms supplier of India ?
By getting raffaels from France ?
They could have done that , by placing minimum numbers , but after getting in huge numbers they won't have any penny left for shopping in russia ?
Russia will play its card when your deal will be done ?
Guess , what ?
SU*35s to Pakistan ?lolzz

Begging ??
That rich comes from a Pakistani
AFAIK we bought weapons buy giving hard cash to both Russia and West .
We didnt ask for soft loans
What is these politics doing here ?
Oh yes .An internet warrior from Pakistan teaching us the diplomacy
Who are you to decide our money bag depth ?
RBI chief .India will buy from US,Russia,France wherever we want .None of your business .
Su 35 to Pakistan .
A nation that couldnt even meet its ends is hoping for Su 35 Again that rich coming from a Pakistani.

 

[帅的一匹]

J10C - AESA+IRST+14T WS-10B engine+BVR+...

some idiots keep saying here that XXX's range is more than 300KMs, can Rafale's radar lock someone in the range of 300KMs? If it can't do that by a far more powerful radar in Rafale, so how the fcuk can the missile's fcuking small radar lock someone in the range of 300KMs away???

300KM range BVRRAM? Only in dream!

 

[dy1022]

300KM range BVRRAM? Only in dream!

better leave them alone, we should focus on China/far east section!

 

[Akasa]

How do you know that it is still remain exactly as before the war ?

When was the last time the likes of the Rafale/Eurofighter was redesigned and improved after a conflict like the Syrian one?

Different paces by sacrificing quality .Sorry we dont interested .

The differences in paces of development has little to do with each country's emphasis on quality.

Shenyang J 11 is in there .

It is a truth .It was a logical question .If burning the money was the aim to support Russia then why couldnt you support much needed Mig series .

Why would the Chinese purchase the MiG when they have been operating Flanker-based airframes for the past 26 years?

 

[vizier]

Jf17 block 3 will have more composites on body, better ecm and a small size plane in addition it doesnt show its engine from frontal section because of dsi bumps. So detecting it would be difficult for Rafale from too far.
Rafale is designed to be low observable has s intakes but external payload would make it more visible to radars unlike Sukhoi T50 having large internal bays.Sukhoi seems to have frontal rcs issues like the intakes seem to be straight not S intakes or dsi bumps.If Rafale uses external enclosed weapon bays that is another issue.In that case however Jf17 can also use similar technology.Additionally Jf17 provides everything at a fraction of cost.

Also what is another possibility for Jf17 is to get TV nozzle for newer models. Not only to try to dodge missiles or airshow acrobatics it can be used for extreme short landing like high way strips in battle condition. Usa practiced the concept with X31.

Used or new f16s with limited tech improvement option usa dependence and possible reliability issues during conflict offers much less compared to Jf 17.

 

[SrNair]

When was the last time the likes of the Rafale/Eurofighter was redesigned and improved after a conflict like the Syrian one?



The differences in paces of development has little to do with each country's emphasis on quality.



Why would the Chinese purchase the MiG when they have been operating Flanker-based airframes for the past 26 years?

Of Courser no one can say anything about it .Because it is a French stuff and they knows its datas .
But real time war experience is a golden chance and they have that golden chance .,
We used Mirages against Pakistan in Kargil .Performance was very impressive that single handedly change the tides of war .
That French experience gave them the next golden chance of Rafale.What about Chinese fighters?


Of Courser it affects quality .
Chinese are not superhumans

You said it and also agreed with it .Su 35 is still better than anything in that Chinese inventory .