what will be pakistan's answer to rafale

[Khafee]

Not any more. Did you follow the last Indian PM visit to Russia? It was a damp squib.

Glad you said it.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Not any more. Did you follow the last Indian PM visit to Russia? It was a damp squib.

Second biggest arms customer of Russia is India their armed forces uses 70 to 75% Russian weapon, so why you think that their think is no Indian influence? Care to explain

 

[dadeechi]

Second biggest arms customer of Russia is India their armed forces uses 70 to 75% Russian weapon, so why you think that their think is no Indian influence? Care to explain

One could say the same about Pakistan's current inventory of US and French origin.

We need to recognize the change in winds.

The winds are blowing from Pakistan to China and from India to West.

The deals that India is negotiating with France runs into Tens of Billions of dollars which itself would be minuscule to what India plans to procure from US as part of DTTI.

There would hardly be any money left for huge Russian procurements except for spares that are required for the equipment that has already been procured. Hence Russia would not see any incentives in a dying relationship and surely would take mitigating steps to counter the loss of sales to India.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

As the deal between india and france is almost done for 36 rafale , what will be the answer of PAF to this acquisition of IAF , RAFALE is miles ahead of anything we have in our inventory , it will shift the balance of power even more , PAF might go for
36 F16 Block 61 (V)
36 J10C
Australian F18 (but pak must not go for american again )
36 J11D if russia allows
36 SU35 ( difficult to get and maintain )
F15 eagle ( very difficult )
36 eurofighter ( if pakistan can get them then its gonna be the most prime fighter of asia )
or shift the funds to J31 and procure them in large numbers
opinions please

Pitch 36 "M M Alam"s and you can face any exigencies inshaAllah. Can't resist the temptation to share a few stanzas from Mehmet Akif Ersoy's Turkish Independence March below:

Fear not; For the crimson banner that proudly ripples in this glorious dawn, shall not fade,
Before the last fiery hearth that is ablaze within my homeland is extinguished.
For that is the star of my people, and it will forever shine;
It is mine; and solely belongs to my valiant nation.

Frown not, I beseech you, oh thou coy crescent!
Smile upon my heroic nation! Why the anger, why the rage?
Our blood which we shed for you shall not be worthy otherwise;
For freedom is the absolute right of my God-worshipping nation!

I have been free since the beginning and forever shall be so.
What madman shall put me in chains! I defy the very idea!
I'm like the roaring flood; trampling my banks and overcoming my body,
I'll tear apart mountains, exceed the Expanses and still gush out!

The horizons of the West may be bound with walls of steel,
But my borders are guarded by the mighty bosom of a believer.
Bellow out, do not be afraid! And think: how can this fiery faith ever be extinguished,
By that battered, single-fanged monster you call "civilization"?

My friend! Leave not my homeland to the hands of villainous men!
Render your chest as armor and your body as bulwark! Halt this disgraceful assault!
For soon shall come the joyous days of divine promise;
Who knows? Perhaps tomorrow? Perhaps even sooner!

 

[Ind4Ever]

He was referring to pakistan. "But one thing is sure, those Rafales will cause more Trouble and damage than Su30 MKI..........to pakistan"

That's a bad idea about Su 30MKI. It's a beast and cause more damage to Pakistan than any other fighters in can have (4.5 gen) Never the less Rafale is newly built Fighter with more EW involved than in Su 30

 

[Akasa]

SU is a proven airframe and a best seller in markets .
MKI is a combination of Indian and Western avionics .
So it has its own advantage .

Once again, what do you define as "proven", and what is the inherent worth of possessing such a quality? Every single aircraft undergoes an evaluation, or "proving" stage if you will, before they are certified for service and/or export. When was the last time that real combat experience warranted a drastic change in an aircraft's capabilities or design? The terms "combat tested" or "proven" do not change a platform's specifications.

But except JV JF 17 Chinese is not a player in market .
Pace of R&D .If you have ability to create some thing like C17,C130j,AC 130,B2 or F22 within two decade successfuly we can say something about that .

If we take a look at a comparison of the timelines of major Russia/Chinese/US military projects, it is very apparent that the three nations progress at different paces. Hence, having a head start in one field of military research does not guarantee that you will continue to hold that lead over your rivals.

Nowhere .
AFAIK PRC bought S400 and in process of buying Su35 .
Both of them are Russian.

And yet none of those sales are implicit of a particular need.

 

[SrNair]

Once again, what do you define as "proven", and what is the inherent worth of possessing such a quality? Every single aircraft undergoes an evaluation, or "proving" stage if you will, before they are certified for service and/or export. When was the last time that real combat experience warranted a drastic change in an aircraft's capabilities or design? The terms "combat tested" or "proven" do not change a platform's specifications.



If we take a look at a comparison of the timelines of major Russia/Chinese/US military projects, it is very apparent that the three nations progress at different paces. Hence, having a head start in one field of military research does not guarantee that you will continue to hold that lead over your rivals.



And yet none of those sales are implicit of a particular need.

Proven means battle tested .Simple .
Give me at least one example that Chinese fighters take part ,at least against rag tag militia .Then we can say about that .
Simulation and imagination are good .But war proven is a different thing .


Paces ??
Paces give you quality??I dont think so .
Russians and West , at their golden age took same time frame for achievements .
US took 30 years to conceive and develop a fifth gen fighter .
And our Chinese accomplished that within one decade with stolen details .Brilliant idea but how can this world trust such ideas .
USSR also had these same discipline and aggressivnes perhaps more than Chinese .Yet they take several decades for completion.

Chinese didnt do any research but stolen those details .But Russians and West developed their own platform with their own hard work.And you can see that in their A to Z factors .
Chinese achievements was in copy pasting like J 11 etc .
Good .Anyone can do that .But will they give entire merits and demerits of those design (found out original developers )?
I dont think so .
That is why I said you cant replace decades of headstart with heaps of currency.
Experience is a different thing .Copying is another thing .





Then why would they burn such an amount of money .Why couldnt you opt for Mig 35 ,if there was no 'needs' ??
S 400 is particularly for SCS and Su 35 is even better than everything Chinese until now .

 

[Basel]

I really can't get to your POV in your post up untill now ?
Sorry ,
But you are accepting in your post that that dam stupid F*16s were not able to fly when in kargill we needed them the most ?
I mean with so much money & time & the precocious lives of our soilders were just wasted for the dam machine which can't defend us when we needed them most ?
Bvr wasnt quite was the problem then , it was spares .
What you think , that problem has been resolved now ?
No ,no & never .
& who told you F*16s comes cheaper ?
Just imagine a machine , which isn't working the time we needed it the most , but we are paying millions of $$$ to keep it as show pices & hope our enemy won't attack us ?
My god thats what I call , living over the moon

Sorry again ,
You think our enemy would be waiting to attack us when we will have 150+ thunders & plus dam spareparts prone F*16s ?
No our enemy won't be waiting , they will get us when we are at our lows ?
& without new high tech multirole fighter we will keep standing in our lows , dreaming that dam F-16s will work for us this time ?

& with F16s our enemy has technical advantage that it can put preasure in America to not to send any spares in any conflict with them ?

Basicly F*16s given to Pakistan back in 80s were part of protection from soviet air force in Afghanistan ?

It wasn't meant to defend our selves with our arch rival ?
Sorry ,
We have passed many decades by now , we have experimented that stupid logic , & came like a slap during kargill that , we can't protect ourselves from our enemy with our dam F*16s .

So by now we need to bring a balance in out strategy & in our fleet leading fighter jets ?
Which can be used at any time at any place ?

Russians are more interested in Islamic world not just because for selling their super sukhois but also to share trade , & power ?
With that strategy , they won't be listening to anyone hurting their global plans ?
Be it India ,USA , or anyone else ?
If they were listening them , then today they shouldn't be selling a screw to China , whose air force is mainly made by Russia ?

& I don't want to go into details , that neither India or america wants to see PLAAF getting stronger day by day ?
If they could have stopped Russia , they would have done that decades ago ?

PAF needs good multirole fighters immediately , it has option going with China its most trusted source on projects like J*31s !
PAF also can order 60 +J*10Ds , J-16s at anytime ?

At the same time they can push Russia for 24 plus SU*35s .

if we can have that , force of 100+ high end fighters , I'm sure that at any given time we can defend ourselves from our given enemy , even if it is having the dam American mad rapptors F*22 ?


Yes sure & PAF s doctrine ends or starts with F*16s ?lolzz

Do you know anything about procurement procedure of tri services and what kind of issue arises? When you have most corrupt people in government which don't provide necessary funds for procurement to military what they want then F-16 love is way to go because our military love western equipment due to quality and advancement.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Proven means battle tested .Simple .
Give me at least one example that Chinese fighters take part ,at least against rag tag militia .Then we can say about that .
Simulation and imagination are good .But war proven is a different thing .


Paces ??
Paces give you quality??I dont think so .
Russians and West , at their golden age took same time frame for achievements .
US took 30 years to conceive and develop a fifth gen fighter .
And our Chinese accomplished that within one decade with stolen details .Brilliant idea but how can this world trust such ideas .
USSR also had these same discipline and aggressivnes perhaps more than Chinese .Yet they take several decades for completion.

Chinese didnt do any research but stolen those details .But Russians and West developed their own platform with their own hard work.And you can see that in their A to Z factors .
Chinese achievements was in copy pasting like J 11 etc .
Good .Anyone can do that .But will they give entire merits and demerits of those design (found out original developers )?
I dont think so .
That is why I said you cant replace decades of headstart with heaps of currency.
Experience is a different thing .Copying is another thing .





Then why would they burn such an amount of money .Why couldnt you opt for Mig 35 ,if there was no 'needs' ??
S 400 is particularly for SCS and Su 35 is even better than everything Chinese until now .

So you said that your MKI is battle proven, your MIGS are battle proven, your MIRAGES are battle proven, that word Battle proven is a insane word you CRAPY Indian, and as for copy and paste so why you jealous for China your beloved CRAPY LITTLE AIRCRAFT is also copy of JAS-37,you loser Indian

 

[batmannow]

Do you know anything about procurement procedure of tri services and what kind of issue arises? When you have most corrupt people in government which don't provide necessary funds for procurement to military what they want then F-16 love is way to go because our military love western equipment due to quality and advancement.

Pls stop that bias right there ?
Buying weapons is solely a matter of armed forces & their think tanks ?
In 90s bb govt ordered F*16s which we got in shape of rotted wheat ?
You think it was bb , who knew about F*16s ?
Sorry the crouption happens to be everywhere some where less & some where huge ?
Yes our politicians are croupt to the their cores but then few kick back getters in our armed forces also used to be found , here & then ?
We should be against all of such nonsense ?
& shouldn't point our finger only at one direction ?
Western equipment & their quality came as shocking slap , to soilders like me in kargill , when that super duper F* 16s weren't able to defend us ?
Thus proving the foolness persists among our armed forces & their high command ?

Modern versions of battle tested platforms.
Mirages are battle tested ?Do you want proof ?Ask to those soldiers in your nation who paticipated in kargil war ?
Mirages pounded them.Mirages are even bettr because our test subject was Pak soldiers.
you shitty Pakistani.




Save that to yourselves.
We are buying items from US because we need them for now ,only for now for certain purposes.

Who are you to decide Indias foreign policy ?
Russia still remain as tge most important partner of India .US can only dream such a level of friendship.
We wont trust US whatever it is.
Indians always have a socialist idealogy.
GoI uses them only for now for our national interest.
There wont be regular importing of defence equipments in future .So US wont get a Russian type deal .

If one sided battles like operation desert Strom is in your counting then count SU-34 bieng used in sirya by Russians ?
Isn't that make it , battle tested ?

Modern versions of battle tested platforms.
Mirages are battle tested ?Do you want proof ?Ask to those soldiers in your nation who paticipated in kargil war ?
Mirages pounded them.Mirages are even bettr because our test subject was Pak soldiers.
you shitty Pakistani.




Save that to yourselves.
We are buying items from US because we need them for now ,only for now for certain purposes.

Who are you to decide Indias foreign policy ?
Russia still remain as tge most important partner of India .US can only dream such a level of friendship.
We wont trust US whatever it is.
Indians always have a socialist idealogy.
GoI uses them only for now for our national interest.
There wont be regular importing of defence equipments in future .So US wont get a Russian type deal .

Buy raffales & beg Russia for the rest of Indian airforce armed with , SUs ,MIGS ?
BJP sarkar never knew , about military equipment , thus George fernandis types make money from the cofins of the dead Indian soilders in kargill ?
Its was the dumbest strategic decesion of the modi sarkar that pissing off Russia the main arms supplier of India ?
By getting raffaels from France ?
They could have done that , by placing minimum numbers , but after getting in huge numbers they won't have any penny left for shopping in russia ?
Russia will play its card when your deal will be done ?
Guess , what ?
SU*35s to Pakistan ?lolzz

 

[jupiter2007]

Pakistan need SU-35 or Chinese J-11BS /J-16/J-11D to match Indian Rafale.

 

[NABZ]

I don't want to sound harsh to Pakistani brothers but just my 2cents...

1) India has China too to worry about. Not every weapon that we induct is aimed at Pakistan. Our current inventory of Su-30MKIs and Mirages/ MIG-29 are more than enough to keep PAF at bay.

2) RAFALE once inducted woiuld be Aisa' best fighter. 36 plus whatever addons (as posted by many senior Indian members the final number could well be around 126) will mostly be to have a counter to China's Air Force till the time we induct PAK-Fa or AMCA

3) Frankly speaking, with a 2.3 trillion $ economy growing at 7.4% annually (worlds fastest growing major economy), this conventional gap between Pakistan-India is only going to increase manifolds. Our defence budget today is around 50 billion USD (only 1.5%of our GDP). Imagine in 10 years when we will be a 7-8 trillion USD economy (even taking a mere 7.5% growth rate), our defence budget will be close to 250 billion USD.

Pakistan's best bet is to have a sound defensive capabilities including anti-aircraft defence shields/ radars and hope that we two neighbours don't go to war at all.

@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA

Frankly speaking India had the same situation with china as Pakistan is habing right now. things don't always remain the same and your made in india policy and rest economic development will only sustain if it is ensured that there will be no war. and you swiftly ignored the land ratio. obviously PAF will never want to get into number game as that would be madness.

 

[帅的一匹]

Proven means battle tested .Simple .
Give me at least one example that Chinese fighters take part ,at least against rag tag militia .Then we can say about that .
Simulation and imagination are good .But war proven is a different thing .


Paces ??
Paces give you quality??I dont think so .
Russians and West , at their golden age took same time frame for achievements .
US took 30 years to conceive and develop a fifth gen fighter .
And our Chinese accomplished that within one decade with stolen details .Brilliant idea but how can this world trust such ideas .
USSR also had these same discipline and aggressivnes perhaps more than Chinese .Yet they take several decades for completion.

Chinese didnt do any research but stolen those details .But Russians and West developed their own platform with their own hard work.And you can see that in their A to Z factors .
Chinese achievements was in copy pasting like J 11 etc .
Good .Anyone can do that .But will they give entire merits and demerits of those design (found out original developers )?
I dont think so .
That is why I said you cant replace decades of headstart with heaps of currency.
Experience is a different thing .Copying is another thing .





Then why would they burn such an amount of money .Why couldnt you opt for Mig 35 ,if there was no 'needs' ??
S 400 is particularly for SCS and Su 35 is even better than everything Chinese until now .

Don't cover your stupidity by calling other stealing. Ignorant to the most. You can even reverse a bolt when others present the whole platform to you. Can you even build a Mig21 variant? No even a rifle and bullet proof jacket.

Yeh, we Indians stand on the high morale ground and never copy?! Oh you just too not clever enough to copy.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Lets just put things in Prespective


_____________Rafale ------------------------ vs ------------------JF Thunder

Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft) -------------------------------------------Length: 14.93 m (49 ft) ------------------(Tie)

Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)----------------------------------------Wingspan: 9.45 m ------------------------(Tie)

Empty Wight 10,300 kilograms (22,700 lb)----------------------Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)--- THUNDER

Loaded weight: 15,000 kilograms (33,000 lb)------------------Loaded weight: 9,100 kg (20,062 lb)---- Rafale

High Speed : Mach 1.8 (1,912 km/h, 1,032 knots)------------speed: Mach 1.8 (1,370.2 mph; 2,205.1 km/h)--Thunder

Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi) with 3 drop tanks ---------Combat radius: 3,482 km --------------Tie

BVR -----------------------------------------------------------------------PL-12 / SD-10 (Beyond visual range) -----Tie

AESA ----------------------------------Arriving Soon ---------(Momentary advantage)

Targeting pod (Yes) -------------------------------------------Yes (Tie)

Fancy Helmet (Yes)---------------------------------------------(Momentary advantage)


Number of Jets INDIA (0) --------------------------------------Pakistan (65)

 

[janu.bravo]

:

Lets just put things in Prespective


_____________Rafale ------------------------ vs ------------------JF Thunder

Length: 15.27 m (50.1 ft) -------------------------------------------Length: 14.93 m (49 ft) ------------------(Tie)

Wingspan: 10.80 m (35.4 ft)----------------------------------------Wingspan: 9.45 m ------------------------(Tie)

Empty Wight 10,300 kilograms (22,700 lb)----------------------Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb)--- THUNDER

Loaded weight: 15,000 kilograms (33,000 lb)------------------Loaded weight: 9,100 kg (20,062 lb)---- Rafale

High Speed : Mach 1.8 (1,912 km/h, 1,032 knots)------------speed: Mach 1.8 (1,370.2 mph; 2,205.1 km/h)--Thunder

Range: 3,700+ km (2,000+ nmi) with 3 drop tanks ---------Combat radius: 3,482 km --------------Tie

BVR -----------------------------------------------------------------------PL-12 / SD-10 (Beyond visual range) -----Tie

AESA ----------------------------------Arriving Soon ---------(Momentary advantage)

Targeting pod (Yes) -------------------------------------------Yes (Tie)

Fancy Helmet (Yes)---------------------------------------------(Momentary advantage)


Number of Jets INDIA (0) --------------------------------------Pakistan (65)