We(Israel) are not enemies of Pakistan and Pak should not be our enemy either - Netanyahu

[YeBeWarned]

Keep Israel at distance because it's better to be neutral or enemy of Israel then friend because being friend with them means internal destabilization and chaos.

Keep your Friends close, and enemies closer

 

[Basel]

Keep your Friends close, and enemies closer

They are the most clever bread on Earth and Muslims can not win in current situation even if they become friend, because their ultimate goal is greater Israel or establishment of Babylon.

 

[YeBeWarned]

They are the most clever bread on Earth and Muslims can not win in current situation even if they become friend, because their ultimate goal is greater Israel or establishment of Babylon.

We don't have to win now don't we ? we just have to make diplomatic ties with them and get a lot of praise and benefit from the world ..you say they are smart people but you didn't realize why they are smart ? look how Israel is keep peace with Arabs, India , China , America , Europe , east Asia and South America .. what about us ( Pakistani ) ? you know how much respect we have in the world ... the entire Arab world is under USA influence , Turkey has relationship with Israel do they have any Chaos ? if Pakistan leave this Opportunity than no wonder we are Stupid and outclassed by every other nation.

 

[Enigma_]

We don't have to win now don't we ? we just have to make diplomatic ties with them and get a lot of praise and benefit from the world ..you say they are smart people but you didn't realize why they are smart ? look how Israel is keep peace with Arabs, India , China , America , Europe , east Asia and South America .. what about us ( Pakistani ) ? you know how much respect we have in the world ... the entire Arab world is under USA influence , Turkey has relationship with Israel do they have any Chaos ? if Pakistan leave this Opportunity than no wonder we are Stupid and outclassed by every other nation.

Besides it isn't as if we should go and hug them as if they're our bloody allies but at least accept them as an entity and establish formal diplomatic ties. It is just dumb.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Besides it isn't as if we should go and hug them as if they're our bloody allies but at least accept them as an entity and establish formal diplomatic ties. It is just dumb.

Problem is that even educated Class of Pakistan is just to dumb to understand the benefit of accepting Israel, they are a reality, and i dare say it that even if entire Muslim world combine to fight them they will push them back, all they need to do is call the big Daddy .. and entire Arab and Islamic Leaders will p!ss their pants and Shalwars.

and if our sane minds are so against relationship with Israel than just think about the Mullah's who lives start with Allah Ho Akber and end with breaking a street light in road ..

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

For people wanting aman ki asha with jews:

They are the people who remember small grievances for thousands of years.

If you think Nawaz Sharif mujhe kyun nikala randi rona is unbearble. Wait till you face jews. For they were kicked out thousands of years ago. Still they make hue and cry.

They will make you bleed by thousand cuts. Like they did to Saddam in Iraq, other in Libya, Yemen, and Syria.

They are cowards. They only attack when they know the enemy is knocked out and has no chance of recovery. Still they will enjoy the show of their dying enemy.

History shows all this. Just visit New York City to see this for yourself.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

Statistics before partition pointed towards a 10% hindu population in the current Pakistan, and even more when you include what is now Bangladesh...slowly...Pakistanis are committing ethnic genocide on Hindus...something RSS wants done India as well. At the least, they are not that successful so far.

Population trends for major religious groups in the Punjab Province of the British Raj (1881–1941)[44]
Religious group 1881 1891 1901 1911 1921 1931 1941
Islam 47.6% 47.8% 49.6% 51.1% 51.1% 52.4% 53.2%
Hinduism 43.8% 43.6% 41.3% 35.8% 35.1% 30.2% 29.1%
Sikhism 8.2% 8.2% 8.6% 12.1% 12.4% 14.3% 14.9%
Christianity 0.1% 0.2% 0.3% 0.8% 1.3% 1.5% 1.5%
Other religions 0.3% 0.2% 0.2% 0.2% 0.1% 1.6% 1.3%


HOW DID PARTITION CHANGE THE RELIGIOUS MAP IN PUNJAB?
Posted on January 3, 2014 by Jawaharlal under British India, Demographics, Hindu, History, India, Muslim, Pakistan, Partition, Punjab, Religion, Sikh


July 2015 Update: See my more detailed look at Punjab here (but read this post too of course!).

Ever since I became interested in the Partition of India, I have been puzzled by the dearth of good maps showing the distribution of different religious communities in India on the eve of Partition in 1947. The main religions in India are few enough to make mapping possible but numerous enough to make it interesting; the British had carried out a detailed census of India as recently as 1941. All the information exists, and the story of Partition is one of the most consequential of the last century. So where are the maps?

I took matters into my own hands and made some new maps. For the map posted below, I used the 1941 Census numbers and this map as a base. The base map is one of the few decent maps available showing the pre-Partition religious situation in Punjab, and, more importantly for my purposes, it shows the districts and main princely states of the region.

A quick primer on Punjab in 1947: Most of the undivided Punjab region was part of the British Indian province of Punjab. Some medium-sized princely states were sprinkled in as well. Most Punjabi speakers lived in Punjab, though some lived (and still live) in what was then called the North West Frontier Province. The southeast and northeast of Punjab province was inhabited by non-Punjabi speakers. The Punjab region was home to about 35 million people, roughly 4/5ths of whom lived in Punjab province, the remaining 1/5th in the princely states.

The Punjab had seven cities with populations over 100,000. The capital, Lahore was the largest with 630,000, followed by the Sikh holy city, Amritsar, which housed 390,000. The other five were Rawalpindi, Multan, Sialkot, Ludhiana, and Jalandhar, all with populations between 100,000 and 200,000. All but Jalandhar and Rawalpindi had Muslim majorities. Those two had Muslim pluralities (or, if you prefer, Hindu+Sikh majorities). The overall religious distribution in Punjab, including the princely states, was 53% Muslim, 30% Hindu, 14.6% Sikh, 1.4% Christian, and 1% Other. Muslims were concentrated in the west, Sikhs in the center, and Hindus in the east. Hindus were also relatively prevalent in cities and Sikhs in rural areas.

Below is my new map, which takes the base map with districts colored simply by whether it was majority Muslim or non-Muslim, and adds two things. One is that it distinguishes between Hindus and Sikhs, so you can see where the “non-Muslims” in question were predominantly Sikh or Hindu. The other is the color gradient, which allows me to show districts where Muslims were 51% as different from those where they were 95%. In the map below, bright green signifies Muslims, blue is for Sikhs, and red for Hindus:



The Punjab can be divided into five areas. One is the west, which was generally 80% or even 90% Muslim. The second is the center-west, which was majority Muslim, but typically around 60% and with large Sikh minorities. The third area is in the center-east, with no obvious majority religion. This is where much of the worst carnage during Partition took place. In some places, the Sikhs were a plurality, in some the Muslims, and in some the Hindus, but rarely was any one community a majority. The fourth area is to the southeast, in what is now Haryana. This part of the Punjab had a Hindu majority, but it was relatively narrow, and the communal split was Hindu/Muslim, with few Sikhs in the mix. In this map, Delhi is included as zone four, because communally and culturally, it was similar to the nearby parts of the Punjab. The fifth zone, which corresponds to the modern state of Himachal Pradesh was almost exclusively Hindu. Below is the same map, but with my zones drawn in:



Looking at this map, reasonable Partition lines are fairly obvious. Pakistan should get areas one and two, and India four, and five, with three being divided between the two, probably with most of it going to India. Below is the map again, with the claims made by Congress (in black) and by the Muslim League (in white), as per thesemaps, drawn in:



The difference between the two claims is stark. The Congress claim is maximalist: in addition to the heavily Hindu areas (4 and 5), they claimed all of zone 3, 2, and even a few parts of 1. I don’t know what the argument for giving those heavily Muslim regions to India would have been. Perhaps it was a negotiating tactic, or an attempt to keep the Sikh heartland undivided. The Muslim League asked for much less, only claiming zones 1 and 2 and most of the Muslim plurality parts of zone three. Below is the final boundary (in pink) drawn by the British:



To my eyes, this looks like an extremely favorable result for India. No Hindu/Sikh majority district went to Pakistan, while several swaths of Muslim majority territory ended up in Indian hands. The explanation that comes to mind is that the British wanted to try to ease the damage Partition would do to Sikhs, who clearly got a raw deal with Partition. Their homeland was split in half, leaving many of their holiest sites, including the birthplace of the founder of Sikhism, abandoned in Pakistan. Lahore, which had been the capital of their early 19th century empire, also went to Pakistan. Unlike the Muslims, they didn’t even get a state out of the carnage, and in Punjab as it was then formulated, they would remain a minority. The British respected the Sikhs perhaps more than any community in India, because of their long service in the British India Army, and their loyalty during the 1857 revolt. Perhaps the generous lines on the map were intended to keep as many Sikhs in India as possible, and therefore reduce the number of uprooted Sikhs . My theory would also explain the very favorable lines in Sindh (or no lines: Sindh wasn’t partitioned despite a Hindu majority in the southeast) and Kashmir. The British expected the Muslim-majority Princely State of Jammu and Kashmir to accede to Pakistan, leaving the Hindus in the southern Jammu area in Pakistan. The British plan in Sindh and Kashmir balanced the pro-India lines in Punjab (obviously, India foiled the plan in Kashmir).

In any case, whether the British had complicated motives, or just didn’t know what they were doing, the lines were drawn, and all Hell broke loose. Virtually all of the Punjabis who found themselves on the wrong side of the new border left or died trying. It was one to the largest population exchanges in history (around 11 million people in Punjab crossed the new border). Here is the 1941 map again:



Below is the religious picture of the greater Punjab region today (or ten to fifteen years ago when the data I used were collected). I added Buddhists in yellow, and since I couldn’t find any district-level data for Pakistan, I colored all of the Pakistani side the same color (97.2% Muslim, 2.3% Christian, 0.5% Other, which is the overall religious breakdown for West Punjab). I assumed that, with half a percent of the population, Hindus and Sikhs wouldn’t show up anyway. There is one religious mapof Pakistan, which shows a Hindu majority in the desert south of Bahawalpur. I do not know what numbers this is based on, but I haven’t seen it anywhere else, so I’m ignoring it, at least until I find their data.



Obviously, the Pakistani side is almost completely Muslim, while the Muslims have left the Indian side except in the area south of Delhi. A pocket of Buddhists has emerged in the sparsely populated far north, apparently mostly consisting of Buddhist refugees from Tibet. The Sikh population is completely concentrated in what is now the Indian state of Punjab, where they are a majority. In 1941, they were not a majority there, but the Muslims left and Sikhs from Pakistan arrived. Over all, Partition drastically changed Punjabi culture and demography in ways that would profoundly influence the courses of both India and Pakistan, and the maps tell the story in the simplest and most direct way.

 

[Meengla]

Yeah, the same Netanyahu who says he believes in a 'Palestinian State' while gobbling up the same land where the Palestinian State could have been formed. Hahaha

It's true that, on surface, there is no strategic competition between Israel and Pakistan. But... unless Pakistanis completely abandon their love for their 'Al Quds', the people of Pakistan will be against the Israeli occupiers. And people DO translate to policies, even in Pakistan--or maybe especially in Pakistan.

BTW, the Palestinian Cause is not entirely a Muslim Cause. Just follow the policies of most of the countries in the world: A case in point, despite open American threats, a vast majority of world countries voted against the Trump declaration of Jerusalem as Israeli capital. But some short sighted Pakistanis here come up with 'Pakistan First' in that context.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

True. That is a small minority though. And statistics will also point to East Punjab having significant Muslim population. It is now almost zero. In 1947 there was a two way population transfer. Although more Muslims moved to Pakistan then Hindu/Sikhs moved to India.

Massive population exchanges occurred between the two newly formed states in the months immediately following the Partition. "The population of undivided India in 1947 was approx 390 million. After partition, there were 330 million people in India, 30 million in West Pakistan, and 30 million people in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh)."[81] Once the lines were established, about 14.5 million people crossed the borders to what they hoped was the relative safety of religious majority. The 1951 Census of Pakistan identified the number of displaced persons in Pakistan at 7,226,600, presumably all Muslims who had entered Pakistan from India. Similarly, the 1951 Census of India enumerated 7,295,870 displaced persons, apparently all Hindus and Sikhs who had moved to India from Pakistan immediately after the Partition.[82] The two numbers add up to 14.5 million. Since both censuses were held about 3.6 years after the Partition, the enumeration included net population increase after the mass migration.[83]

About 11.2 million (77.4% of the displaced persons) were in the west, with the Punjab accounting for most of it: 6.5 million Muslims moved from India to West Pakistan, and 4.7 million Hindus and Sikhs moved from West Pakistan to India; thus the net migration in the west from India to West Pakistan (now Pakistan) was 1.8 million.

The remaining 3.3 million (22.6% of the displaced persons) were in the east: 2.6 million moved from East Pakistan to India and 0.7 million moved from India to East Pakistan (now Bangladesh); thus net migration in the east was 1.9 million into India.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Yeah, the same Netanyahu who says he believes in a 'Palestinian State' while gobbling up the same land where the Palestinian State could have been formed. Hahaha

It's true that, on surface, there is no strategic competition between Israel and Pakistan. But... unless Pakistanis completely abandon their love for their 'Al Quds', the people of Pakistan will be against the Israeli occupiers. And people DO translate to policies, even in Pakistan--or maybe especially in Pakistan.

BTW, the Palestinian Cause is not entirely a Muslim Cause. Just follow the policies of most of the countries in the world: A case in point, despite open American threats, a vast majority of world countries voted against the Trump declaration of Jerusalem as Israeli capital. But some short sighted Pakistanis here come up with 'Pakistan First' in that context.

The Palestinian cause is NOT a Muslim cause.

The Palestinian cause is a Palestinian cause.

Remember we should always be Pakistan First.

 

[mingle]

Israel stored F16s plus C130s looking for forgien customers. Pak can have them world is changing so Pak should be. We should tell Israel that we r not theior enemy either.
Engaging Israel is more beneficial for Palestinians rights there is feeling and movement inside Israel that plastinians should have right not all is Israelis r Hawkish they r like us mix bag. plus a strong lobby in Washington If they can't help us can stay neutral.

 

[Thorough Pro]

It's a statement of convenience, they can't fight against two countries together.so falsely alleviate fears of one by lying while targeting the other.

on the face of it, its an encouraging statement from otherwise a Hawkish prime minster of Israel.

Jews and Muslims have coexisted in Middle east and antisemitism was not the way it turned out after the way Israeli state was made on the corpses of Palestinians. if there is an honorable and peaceful resolution on Palestine issue then indeed such hostility felt by Pakistanis for Israelis and vice versa will recede over time.
some time ago Saudis led the way in off erring Israel recognition, trade and ease in military build up in return for Palestinian resolution but Israelis rejected that offer its early 2000s

Pakistanis find themselves obliged to count Israeli state as its enemy for its actions otherwise I agree there is no personal feud

 

[Yaseen1]

they are providing india with latest weapon which they use against .this statement is for disguise .we will never trust them

 

[mingle]

they are providing india with latest weapon which they use against .this statement is for disguise .we will never trust them

If pak has diplomatic relations with Israel I assure u they will sell us what we want. For them its business nothing more.

 

[Yaseen1]

If pak has diplomatic relations with Israel I assure u they will sell us what we want. For them its business nothing more.

we cannot rely on their technology because they can jam and destroy their equipment in the
time of war and also stop supplying spare parts and money which we give for buying weapons will be used against innocents.it is better and enough to rely on china technology and make remaining equipment indigeniously