Was Ataturk spy for British against Ottoman Empire?

[Cirit]

Here you can see the remaining Ottoman Empire after WWI, accepted by Sultan and Ottoman Dynasty, Empire my ar*e

And this is what Ataturk, his friends and Turkish nation managed to get.

This is the bare reality, what you hear rest is just ARS* PAIN of MULLAHS

 

[mjnaushad]

Ataturk was a patriot and a great leader. Period.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Look cabatli there is nationalism and then there is patriotism. a nationalist says “One Turk equals the whole world.” while a patriot says "i respect every other country and their people as my equal, but i won't let foreigners destroy my country". “One Turk equals the whole world.” is a very racist phrase, i don't care whether you accept that or not.

And i could take all the bullets you lot fire today, because i know my case is the right one. Defending people's rights never has been wrong and it isn't wrong now.

edit: Adieu from here for now, need to look at some work. Be honest and do not misrepresent me or my words.

 

[cabatli_53]

Look cabatli there is nationalism and then there is patriotism. a nationalist says “One Turk equals the whole world.” while a patriot says "i respect every other country and their people as my equal, but i won't let foreigners destroy my country". “One Turk equals the whole world.” is a very racist phrase, i don't care whether you accept that or not.

And i could take all the bullets you fire today, because i know my case is the right one. Defending people's rights never has been wrong and it isn't wrong now.

Don't tell me fairytales or meaning of politic terms. Just tell me Did you comprehend my point, Are you aware of what you are doing While you are calling yourself as patriot ? or you are turing over some specific sentences used by a few members to use it/generalize an ideology, society, politic all including M. Kemal Ataturk ? because Noone in this thread says any single statement about "One Turk equals the whole world" or similar sentences and The actual point of mine and this thread or traitorhood of Ataturk or opening such BS's to public discussion has nothing to do with such sentences.

 

[Cirit]

Look cabatli there is nationalism and then there is patriotism. a nationalist says “One Turk equals the whole world.” while a patriot says "i respect every other country and their people as my equal, but i won't let foreigners destroy my country". “One Turk equals the whole world.” is a very racist phrase, i don't care whether you accept that or not.

And i could take all the bullets you lot fire today, because i know my case is the right one. Defending people's rights never has been wrong and it isn't wrong now.

edit: Adieu from here for now, need to look at some work. Be honest and do not misrepresent me or my words.

Zulky as you describe yourself a "Freedom of Speech's Warrior" , what are your precious thoughts about Danish (Yes Danish like you what a coencidence) Cartoonist Mr. Kurt Westergaard?

For the ones who do not know him. click

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Don't want to repeat myself, here is what i have written so far:

This thread shows the intellectual level of some people quite good actually. Raptor initiates by a very harsh introduction which is of course not preferable while Kemalists defend every single policy of Kemal which again shows their level of ignorance. Though there are some valid points.

Firstly, Kemal had many flaws in his way of conducting government, and many flaws in his revolutions (herein crippled Kurdish rights, and seeing Islam as a disease).
Secondly, Kemalists still have many flaws of seeing Kemal as the ultimate human being that is not reachable for anyone person neither today nor tomorrow. How can a university graduate or student see a hsitorical person who was a drunkard that way is beyond my comprehension. I must say he was visionary but he was not a "demigod" as Kemalists like to think.

The problem with Kemalists is that they can't get past their locked way of thinking. Herein, thinking that he was the ultimate being, that a single criticism of him is unspeakable. Phrases like “One Turk equals the whole world.” shows the extreme arrogance and racism for these people to. I have countless of times tried to reason with these nutcases, but as many decent persons have witnessed it is impossible to reason with fanatics.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...h-against-ottoman-empire-4.html#ixzz1xOMgMbGO

I don't defend people who call Mustafa Kemal a british spy. As you can rad at my above post i said it is very wrong for him to introduce a thread by Calling him a spy, which i don't think he was. But while criticizing the one side, we shouldn't forget the other side. There are realities in Turkey, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Reality 1: Kurds have been alienated for a long time with not giving them their most basic rights.
2: Not allowing headscarf into university is a very harsh reality. And no one should come here and tell me that it wasn't people who call themselves Kemalists who did this to our country.

And yes those who are afraid to critsize a single fact of Mustafa Kemal are fanatics. If you do that, you say he was a dictator if you don't then we can start talking about learning from our past for a better future.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...h-against-ottoman-empire-4.html#ixzz1xOMqJd9C

If you think my family and my religious belief is more important than Turkey and Mustafa Kemal, why not? I am open to constructive critisicim of any kind buddy. As long as it does not harrass me and curse me. But i think solving our nations problems are more imperative than my personal life, don't you agree?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...h-against-ottoman-empire-4.html#ixzz1xOMtThGo

You people know deep inside that what i am talking about is true, you just don't want to admit it. Doing some historical analysis one will come to this conclusion: Mustafa Kemal was a revolutionary leader, but it was not optimal for a conservative country to abolish and alienate religion. Because, as we can see today it backfired.

We can learn (and we are learning day by day) that past mistakes should not be repeated. Giving Kurdish rights, allowing women with scarf any access to everywhere, and respecting every minority and religion is the way forward. Because discrimination begets hatred and you know that very well.
I have no doubt that every single Turkish person would give their life to protect their country, but what are we protecting? If we are not protecting our culture and historical identity then what is our function? We are our history and our culture, and our history is and has always been integrated with Islamic values, whether you like it or not.

Let's put some common ground here and all agree on some points:
1: Women should be free to wear scarf in Universities and when pursuing their dream
2: Kurds should be given their rights as a minority and we should respect them and their culture, language etc
3: Past grievances should light our future in avoiding the same mistakes.

Respecting a nation's citizens its rights is the correct path. Anyone disagreeing with this should double check himself.


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/turkey...h-against-ottoman-empire-5.html#ixzz1xOMzGp71

 

[TrMhMt]

After all i can say that RaptorRX707 is very successful a troll ...

 

[Deno]

Look cabatli there is nationalism and then there is patriotism. a nationalist says “One Turk equals the whole world.” while a patriot says "i respect every other country and their people as my equal, but i won't let foreigners destroy my country". “One Turk equals the whole world.” is a very racist phrase, i don't care whether you accept that or not.

And i could take all the bullets you lot fire today, because i know my case is the right one. Defending people's rights never has been wrong and it isn't wrong now.

edit: Adieu from here for now, need to look at some work. Be honest and do not misrepresent me or my words.

Well, I will give you that it is a racist phrase. Mustafa Kemal was quite an intelligent man who knows that humans are humans, it wasn't about seeing Turks as a superior nation to others, it was about creating a Turkish identity.

Ottoman Empire always opressed the idea of a Turkish nation because of political reasons. Thats why Anatolia was always in state of rebellion against Ottoman Empire and Thats why Eastern Anatolian Turks and most of the Turkish clan leaders wanted to join Azerbaijan Turks who didn't opress nomadic Turks. Thanks to their ummah ideology there wasn't any Turkish nation idea amongst people except military elite.

And in times of nation states and British supported religious rebellions there was no way that Turkey with Ummah ideolgy could be an independent state.
If you listen/read his speeches or declerations they are all about creating and encouraging the national and patriotic feelings of Anatolian and Balkan Turks.

 

[Kompromat]

A man who butchered ,quarter of a million brits , aussies and other allies in Gallipoli was a british spy . Your intelligence level has just increased by 100.

 

[Armstrong]

Well, I will give you that it is a racist phrase. Mustafa Kemal was quite an intelligent man who knows that humans are humans, it wasn't about seeing Turks as a superior nation to others, it was about creating a Turkish identity.

Ottoman Empire always opressed the idea of a Turkish nation because of political reasons. Thats why Anatolia was always in state of rebellion against Ottoman Empire and Thats why Eastern Anatolian Turks and most of the Turkish clan leaders wanted to join Azerbaijan Turks who didn't opress nomadic Turks. Thanks to their ummah ideology there wasn't any Turkish nation idea amongst people except military elite.

And in times of nation states and British supported religious rebellions there was no way that Turkey with Ummah ideolgy could be an independent state.
If you listen/read his speeches or declerations they are all about creating and encouraging the national and patriotic feelings of Anatolian and Balkan Turks.

I don't understand ! Why were Turkish lands in a state of rebellion to an Empire that had 'Ottoman Turkish' as its language, Turkish Sultan at the helm, most of its citizenry being ethnic Turks and Turks filling some of the most coveted posts throughout the Empire ? I had though that one of reasons why the Arabs decided to break-away was because the Empire was too Turkish at the expense of other ethnicities !

 

[Cirit]

Let's put some common ground here and all agree on some points:
1: Women should be free to wear scarf in Universities and when pursuing their dream
2: Kurds should be given their rights as a minority and we should respect them and their culture, language etc
3: Past grievances should light our future in avoiding the same mistakes.

Respecting a nation's citizens its rights is the correct path. Anyone disagreeing with this should double check himself.

We have a very good saying in Turkish, "İğneyi kendine çuvaldızı başkasına batır", which can be translated "Prick the small needle to yourself and the big one to others" means make some self criticism before criticising others.

As Zulky is a Danish citizen and not a Turkish citizen, before accusing Turks he has to look at his own homeland;

1)Headscarf is forbidden in Denmark too.
2)Minorities are having very big problems in Denmark, Zulky's country is the most racist country in Europe
3)Nazi history in Denmark is still an unsolved issue, which is not even discussed yet.

Zulky, zulky, zulky pls. deal with your own problems first!

 

[Deno]

I don't understand ! Why were Turkish lands in a state of rebellion to an Empire that had 'Ottoman Turkish' as its language, Turkish Sultan at the helm, most of its citizenry being ethnic Turks and Turks filling some of the most coveted posts throughout the Empire ? I had though that one of reasons why the Arabs decided to break-away was because the Empire was too Turkish at the expense of other ethnicities !

It was the military elites in last decades of Empire that had the idea of Turkish nationalism. Until the last quarter of the 19th century idea of Turkish nationalism was something to laught at the empire. Anatolian Turkish rebellions are named as Celali Rebellions and there are man more rebellions in Anatolia.

Ottomans opressed nomadic Turks -at that time they were called Turkoman or Türkmen in Turkish- because of their fear of not controling them and Azerbaijan Turks who ruled Iran didn't so thats why Anatolian Turks wanted to unite with Safavids and later Turkish rulers of Azerbaijan and Iran and thats the reason that in Eastern Anatolia many Turks still have more sympaty towards Turkish ruled Azerbaijan and Iran than Ottoman dynasty.

Edit: You can even see in Palace literature that Ottomans insulted nomads of Anatolia as uncivilized people unlike settled Turks who called themselves Ottoman.

This is what Bernard Lewis, a historian specialized in Middle East, says about Ottoman society

''in the Imperial society of the Ottomans the ethnic term Turk was little used, and then chiefly in a rather derogatory sense, to designate the Turcoman nomads or, later, the ignorant and uncouth Turkish-speaking peasants of the Anatolian villages."

 

[cabatli_53]

Sizin gibi türklere yaziklar olsun. Gelip burada gavurlarin hosuna gitsin diye Islami yerden yere caliyorsunuz. Böyle asagilik insanlari doguran anaya ben ana demem babaya ben baba demem. Hicmi haya olmaz insanda, hicmi dini saygi deger olmaz, bu kadar rezil rüsva olunur diyorum ben, ve baskada bisey demiyorum.

I don't know Which frequency you are in at present but As an advice, Use Aselsan MF/HF DSC to find our talking frequency in automatic searching mode my friend...

 

[Zulkarneyn]

We have a very good saying in Turkish, "İğneyi kendine çuvaldızı başkasına batır", which can be translated "Prick the small needle to yourself and the big one to others" means make some self criticism before criticising others.

As Zulky is a Danish citizen and not a Turkish citizen, before accusing Turks he has to look at his own homeland;

1)Headscarf is forbidden in Denmark too.
2)Minorities are having very big problems in Denmark, Zulky's country is the most racist country in Europe
3)Nazi history in Denmark is still an unsolved issue, which is not even discussed yet.

Zulky, zulky, zulky pls. deal with your own problems first!

Your whole post is full of incorrect information

1: i am both Turkish citizen and Danish citizen.
2: Scarf is definately not forbidden in Denmark, never has been (to your surprise not even in elementary class)
3: Minorities are not having very big problems in Denmark. Actually Denmark is to your surprise one of the freeist countries in world
4: Nazism is strongly condemned in Denmark, i know i have lived here 24 years.

Therefore, not a single thing you have written is anywhere near reality. And when i see posts like these being thanked i feel sorry for you.

Edit: and wasting my time by answering bigots like you is another issue.

 

[TrMhMt]

Zulki lets talk about Denmark and Eskimo genocide...

Will Denmark recognize Eskimo genocide?

Will Denmark give Eskimo's rights?

Will Denmark let Eskimo's speak and learn their mother language?