Muslim Pakistan versus Islamic Pakistan - Which Was Jinnah’s Vision?

[El Sidd]

Nobody is saying disassociate on a faith level. Dissaociate at state level with political Islam like Turkey.

What does that even mean? You have problems with the laws inspired by the Book?

Stop pulling "facts" out of your arse, troll... Your Kharji Takfiri brethren in faith have just today killed 7 innocent Shia teachers in Parachinar.

That's tribal conflict. Nothing to do with sectarianism like you would have proiected

And seriously, why did you have to bring your sectarian hatred into a thread where you all Islamists were supposed to vote for Islamic Pakistan over Muslim Pakistan? If you can't keep it together for that, one can only imagine how you would treat each other if given the chance in real life

the country is called Ismaic Republic of Pakistan. there are no Muslim Republics in the world and stop crying when you are faced with your own music you sectarian bigot

 

[Neelo]

Nobody is saying disassociate on a faith level. Dissaociate at state level with political Islam like Turkey.

They think separating religion from state equates to men dressing up like women.

This is how warped and perverted their minds are. Sexually frustrated folks.

 

[AlKardai]

They think separating religion from state equates to men dressing up like women.

This is how warped and perverted their minds are. Sexually frustrated folks.

Secularism and the removal of moral values rooted in religious ideals from states leads to this, as seen in many nations.
If you can't see this, how blind must you be?

 

[Indos]

Nobody is saying disassociate on a faith level. Dissaociate at state level with political Islam like Turkey.

AKP, Erdogan Party, is part of political Islam. There are other Islamist parties in Turkey.

AKP has ruled Turkey since 2000

 

[Neelo]

Stop pulling "facts" out of your arse, troll... Your Kharji Takfiri brethren in faith have just today killed 7 innocent Shia teachers in Parachinar...

And seriously, why did you have to bring your sectarian hatred into a thread where you all Islamists were supposed to vote for Islamic Pakistan over Muslim Pakistan? If you can't keep it together for that, one can only imagine how you would treat each other if given the chance in real life

Did you read the part the Canadian Islamist said?

He went so quick from “PAKISTAN = ISLAM“ to Punjabi Ethnofascist in a heartbeat. Said he want to break up Pakistan LOL all because I opposed his maniac views.

Somebody should tell him that the vast majority of Punjabis in the world reside in Pakistan…and separating Punjab from Pakistan would make it a landlocked state.

These people are all frauds….they use religion to try and dominate and maintain power in society. Nothing else.

Secularism and the removal of moral values rooted in religious ideals from states leads to this, as seen in many nations.
If you can't see this, how blind must you be?

I think you just proved my point about some of you folks being sexually frustrated.

AKP, Erdogan Party, is part of political Islam. There are other Islamist parties in Turkey.

AKP has ruled Turkey since 2000

AKP in Pakistan would be a liberal leftist party according to some of the folks in this thread.

I mean the literal title of the topic is Muslim Pakistan vs Islamic Pakistan.

I wasn’t even arguing originally about full blown secularism. This is something the Islamist apologists brought up to try and squash the debate.

At the end of the day, Jinnah and Iqbal and the ML would never support what Pakistan became today.

Our society is completely hyperreligious….to the point where we are murdering people in public out of WhatsApp rumours around “blasphemy”.

And then these same people sell milk with water in it, litter, steal mobile phones…lol….

What a confused quam.

 

[Menace2Society]

AKP, Erdogan Party, is Islamist. There are other Islamist parties in Turkey.

AKP has ruled Turkey since 2000

I've been to Turkey recently. They sell alcohol in supermarkets, people look and act civilized. It's 1st world. It's a good mix. It is definitely a very secular environment. I wish Pakistan was like that.

Last time I went to Pakistan it was filthy AF, open sewage everywhere, people walking around in dirty clothes, cross dressers and men holding hands. Men would be eye balling every female walking by.

It is obvious which way of life yields better results.

 

[AlKardai]

I think you just proved my point about some of you folks being sexually frustrated.

So the removal of religious and moral ideals that prevent the influence of this perversion from spreading is now the cause?

You really do mental gymnastics to come to conclusions, don't you?

 

[Neelo]

Also want to point out in the polls, that 3 of the voters for “Islamic Pakistan” have less than 50 posts…one has 0 posts.

Lie, cheat and steal. Just another normal day of an Islamist apologist. Really selling your religion well by behaving like this.

27 to 14 essentially….I think the verdict is out.

 

[Neelo]

I've been to Turkey recently. They sell alcohol in supermarkets, people look and act civilized. It's 1st world. It's a good mix. It is definitely a very secular environment. I wish Pakistan was like that.

That’s what a free society does….when you separate religion and state, interest in cultural, intellectual and scientific exploration flourishes and support for an all-powerful religious centre diminishes.

Hell at the height of the Islamic Empire, they’d almost be considered secular by todays standards of these Islamofascists.

Even though Turkish society has been secular for over a century now, most Turks are still practicing Muslims and most Turks opposed the cucking Turkey was doing to the EU before 2000.

The same in Malaysia…I’ve seen more women wearing Hijab in Malaysia than in Pakistan!

The freedom to choose is to understated here. The Mullahs fear that because they lose power in society.

That’s all this is about.

Last time I went to Pakistan it was filthy AF, open sewage everywhere, people walking around in dirty clothes, cross dressers and men holding hands. Men would be eye balling every female walking by.

It is obvious which way of life yields better results.

To be fair, Pakistan was like this even before Zia and even before the “Islamic Republic” was established.

That being said, Zia ul Haq’s education reforms in 1982 doesn’t help anybody. Our society in general is still living on the fringes of the medieval ages.

To be brought out of this era, the next generation need to be taught….through subjects like Social Studies/Pakistan Studies.

I don’t have to remind you what happened in 1982…and Zia’s education directive for Pakistan/Social Studies.

 

[Indos]

I've been to Turkey recently. They sell alcohol in supermarkets, people look and act civilized. It's 1st world. It's a good mix. It is definitely a very secular environment. I wish Pakistan was like that.

Last time I went to Pakistan it was filthy AF, open sewage everywhere, people walking around in dirty clothes, cross dressers and men holding hands. Men would be eye balling every female walking by.

It is obvious which way of life yields better results.

Many tourist are there as well, Russians, Germans, etc.

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I think education and the raise of economy tend to improve any society. Pakistan is too obsessed with military stuff and overspending on it, it makes the budget for education, infrastructure become much much less.

 

[Neelo]

So the removal of religious and moral ideals that prevent the influence of this perversion from spreading is now the cause?

Yes, the removal of archaic and 9th century mindsets is necessary to enter into the modern age.

This “perversion” you speak of is a medical condition called “Gender Dysmorphia”.

If people are engaging in this sort of behaviour, they don’t need to be stoned to death or locked up in prison. They need the proper help.

Not everything in your Islamic society should revolve around punishment fear.

In the west, playing victim makes a lot of money…whether it’s being a woman in a male dominated society, a black person in a white society or a (insert gender here) in a Cis society. The whole LGBTQ movement in the west is precisely that….victim playing.

The inability for you to differentiate westernism from secularism/liberalism is pretty funny.

You really do mental gymnastics to come to conclusions, don't you?

I think you prove this case pretty well by equating Muslim Pakistan with a Crossdressing Revolution.

 

[Indos]

The same in Malaysia…I’ve seen more women wearing Hijab in Malaysia than in Pakistan!

The freedom to choose is to understated here. The Mullahs fear that because they lose power in society.

Muslim Malaysian is only 60 % of their population.

In Kuala Lumpur, Non Muslim dominates at 60 %

 

[Indos]

Yes, the removal of archaic and 9th century mindsets is necessary to enter into the modern age.

The problem is always human. Alim and Ulil Albab stated in Quran is Knowledgeable people, it can be Madrasah Graduate, entrepreneur, or Phd in Aerospace.

Who Are the Ulul Albab? The People of Intellect in the Quran | About Islam

The Quran mentions several special groups of people. If you’re among a special group, you’re worthy of a special award, a special mercy bestowed by Allah...

aboutislam.net

Islamist leader in Indonesia in 1990-2005 are

1. BJ Habibie (Aerospace Doctor) Chairmant of ICMI (Islamic Intellectual) that lead Golkar party during 1990-2005. Former President that lead Indonesia from economic crisis into stable economy and from authoritarian into Democracy

2. Amien Rais (Phd in Politics from Chicago University) who is also the Chairmant of Muhammadiyah, second largest Islamic Organization in Indonesia and older than Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt

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Many Islamist political parties are lead by professionals in Law (Mostly Lawyers)

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During 2005- until now we have several leaders with can be categorized as Islamist

Yusuf Kalla (former leader of Golkar and Chairmant of Indonesia Mosque Body)

He is former VP of Indonesia (2004-2008 and 2014-2019) and owner of Kalla Group (Conglomeration)

One of his companies is Bukaka

Today I think Anies Baswedan, Phd in politics from US university and become Presidential Candidate for 2024 election.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Compare with Kuwait. Its title is simply, State of Kuwait.

It has no Sharia court [unlike other GCC countries], yet they are religious, and its constitution says the official religion is Islam. Laws are derived from Quran, French, English, and Egyptian legal/civil systems. Family laws are governed by Sunni, Shia, or Secular laws for non-Muslims. It allows no LGBTQ/Hijrha, no Mujrha, no boys dancing for pedos, no addictive drugs, no legal alcohol, no prostitution, no gambling, no near-nudity on television or beaches [except private hotel beach], and low crime rate. They don't allow mocking of any religion, no lynch mob for any reason. Plenty of churches in Kuwait.

Pakistan's Islamic title seems politically motivated, more like an ideology aspiring to equalize with 'Hindu India' [Two-nation theory]. There are only three other countries with Islamic title, Afghanistan, Iran, and Mauritania, none of whom demonstrates special relationship with another because of the Islamic name. Pakistan's border with Afghanistan and Iran tends to be tense, breaking into firing and hostility at times. Pakistan has fenced large parts of its border with Afghanistan because of it.

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

Islam over Pakistan any day
Only a Islamic Pakistan exists

Murtads are the biggest enemy of Pakistan

I would vote for Islamic Pakistan.

Then what was the point of partition then?

If you want a secular country, then there was no point of partition.