UAE Mirage to PAF and SH to IAF Extract

[pak-yes]

Quick question. What's the price of UAE Mirage? And since they are used, what price will UAE sell them for?

Not looking for exact figure, but just a rough idea. Thanks

oh come on for Arabs there is no price if they are happy with us they can even give it to us for free

My estimate would be somewhere up & down of 15-20M US$ per plane.

Almost equal to Jf-17.A question are UAE mirage more capable than Jf-17.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Almost equal to Jf-17.A question are UAE mirage more capable than Jf-17.

The latest upgraded one the 2000-9 are said to be very capable, Mirage2K is considered to be in the league of F-16s.

 

[Adios Amigo]

Hi,

In any form of life there comes a time where one has to change directions in mid stride---that time is called the moment of oppurtunity---the change of destiny---the will of Allah---the hand of God---divine intervention---a student visa to the u s of a or the uk etc.

It is just like Ricky Ponting snatching the catch off shoaib Mailk out of thick air last night---these momentuous decision change the the face and the out come of the game---they are also know as the moment of great equalizations.

Israelis made the same adjustment---regarding their lavi---decided that even with all the investment and bruhahaha and chest thumping, it was not worth it in the long run. Give credit to the jews for keeping their options open and not sticking with the presumptuous.

250 Jf 17's are not written in stone---lesser numbers could prevail with the influx of m2k9's---the extra planes can be sold---it would also give paf extra time to develop the JF 17, as well as the FC 20.

It should be very obvious to the reader that integration is not an easy transformation---look at the jf 17---the first sqdrn was to be in place by the end of 2009---now it seems that it would be sometime in aug 2010.

In millitary procurement or in any thing in life---time is of the ultimate essence. Bonaparte lost the battle, just because his troops were late by one minute to start the attack. That just completely changed the picture and the result of the war.

Same thing over here----there are big lovers of JF 17 and FC 20 and that is fine and good---the only problem here is that those people have not taken into consideration the ever changing attitude of our neighbour and the millitary power imbalance---actually they don't want to, because first of all they don't want to accept that such a thing exists---secondly, no one wants to take the first step to admit that we need these m2k9's---because if they do---then it will prove that their past decisions were wrong as well. They are trying to just save their face---so that they don't look bad---.

Mastan khan, beautifully written sire, i would say every word of it is praise worthy. But what is your say on the price???? to make the deal worthy. If its higher then thunders, lets suppose 20 million or above, would it justify cost-benefit aspect???

waiting anxiously for your reply.


regards.

 

[qsaark]

Mastan khan, beautifully written sire, i would say every word of it is praise worthy. But what is your say on the price???? to make the deal worthy. If its higher then thunders, lets suppose 20 million or above, would it justify cost-benefit aspect???

waiting anxiously for your reply.


regards.

God-forbidden, if a war breaks out today, what price would you pay for saving your country? That is the price of these M2K that will quickly put your Air Force if not at par, close to at par with your enemy.

 

[Adios Amigo]

God-forbidden, if a war breaks out today, what price would to pay for saving your country? That is the price of these M2K that will quickly put your Air Force if not at par, close to at par with your enemy.

I understand that sir, but i just want to know MK,s opinion.

Apart from that, i really love those jets, and i would like them, to be in Pakistan's arsenal. even if air-force is happy with current projects and not inclined towards them i would like them for navy.




regards

 

[Aeri-Eye]

Sir Taimikhan, thank's a lot for the explaination. Appreciated it

 

[PAFAce]

God-forbidden, if a war breaks out today, what price would you pay for saving your country? That is the price of these M2K that will quickly put your Air Force if not at par, close to at par with your enemy.

Well, you have hit the nail on the head. It's all about threat perception. Is there a serious enough threat from the Eastern border to justify a brand new "crash" procurement program? Also, are they really the only option we have to build up numbers?

I don't know the answer to that, that is for the PAF to decide. In the long term, however, a UAE Mirage deal offer little but take away a lot of resources. Comparing the Mirage 2000 to the JF-17 is pointless, one is a tried, tested and true platform, the other is a poster-child with loads of potential. If we needed a shot in the arm right now, Mirages would be justifiable. However, in the long run, I do not believe the number of JF-17s should be lowered or overlooked in any way for a platform with limited life left. Remember, India acquiring some sort of Fifth Generation aircraft tech by 2025 is very much a possibility, should we overlook that to achieve parity now?

If what notorious_eagle has reported above is correct, then it seems the PAF is thinking along the same lines as I am. This points that the PAF doesn't believe the threat from the IAF is real enough in the short term. Had the Mirages been made available five years ago, when our best bet seemed the F-7PG, it would have been welcomed with open arms. However, as with the RQ-7 Shadow drone offer from the United States, it seems "too little, too late".

And in any case, if hostilities with India became imminent today, there would be contingency plans in place. We might see PLAAF J-10As and UAEAF Mirage-2000s flying in Pakistani airspace in such an event.

 

[qsaark]

Well, you have hit the nail on the head. It's all about threat perception. Is there a serious enough threat from the Eastern border to justify a brand new "crash" procurement program? Also, are they really the only option we have to build up numbers?

In my humble opinion, the threat is very real especially after the comments made by the Indian secretary of defense recently (oops, it was US secretary of defense). The Americans want our forces to expand their operations in N-Waziristan, than they would ask to go in Balochistan, than next battle field will be Karachi, than it will be South Punjab and thus US will keep demanding ‘do more’. Obviously PA will not bow (at least I hope so) to their every demand, and in that case, there will be another Mumbai like incident and India will unleash its power on Pakistan with the full support of the Americans and the British and possibly the UN. Do you think there would ever be a fair and unbiased investigation to determine whether Pakistan was involved or not? Do you think Pakistan would be in a position to do anything but either to fight for its survival or swallow the American demands? Take for example this new turn in the Ajmal Qassab case… this was a golden opportunity for this Zardari regime, but did they take any advantage of it? Time and time again it has proven that the only language spoken and understood in the international arena is the language of force. There was no evidence of WMDs in Iraq, yet Iraq was attacked and destroyed; There was no evidence of the involvement of the Taliban or even Al-Qaeda in the 9/11 (other than what the Americans claimed, and we know how credible they are; the Gulf of Tonkin incident as a pretext of waging war on Vietnam can be given as an example) yet Afghanistan was attacked and destroyed, same in Somalia and Yemen. So the threat is very real and we must make sure that if it ever comes to the eventuality, we take down our enemy along with us.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Just get 16-18 for one Sqn (save money for other platforms) and deploy them with Navy , it will make a big difference if war breaks out in near future.
Why to buy all 60 and UAE should give PAF a deal like buy one get one free

 

[deckingraj]

And in any case, if hostilities with India became imminent today, there would be contingency plans in place. We might see PLAAF J-10As and UAEAF Mirage-2000s flying in Pakistani airspace in such an event.

May be off topic but curious to know how this work out....Whenever we talk about new procurements lot of talk goes on how the system will be absorbed....things like interaction with ground staff.. Pilot trainings, miantenance etc etc...Now in such a situation when Mirages and J-10's will reach Pak how easily they can be absorbed??? Do you already have such systems and logistics ready for them???

Please ignore if this is too lame a question toreply...

 

[PAFAce]

May be off topic but curious to know how this work out....Whenever we talk about new procurements lot of talk goes on how the system will be absorbed....things like interaction with ground staff.. Pilot trainings, miantenance etc etc...Now in such a situation when Mirages and J-10's will reach Pak how easily they can be absorbed??? Do you already have such systems and logistics ready for them???

Please ignore if this is too lame a question toreply...

Definitely not a lame question. A vey legitimate query. However, war and peace are different. In war, we will have no choice but to get whatever we can get our hands on and "absorb" on the job. Also, there are PAF pilots who have flown J-10As, Mirage-2000s etc. Simply put, if hostilities became imminent, contingency plans will go into affect immediately. Even if we get a months time with the jets, we will be able to do something with them.

 

[qsaark]

PAFace is very right; I'll add that PAF is very familiar with the M2K system. PAF's airmen and pilots have been actively serving in the Air Forces of the Gulf States operating the M2K and have operational experience on these birds. Hence if and when PAF decides to induct M2K, it will take considerably less time from induction to maintenance and operational preparedness. I hope Mastan Saheb will shed more light on these issues as he is not only passionate about the M2K but very informed as well.

 

[pak-yes]

If the price of JF-17 is equal to a Second Hand Mirage 2K.Which is said be experts as very capable.So i don't see a reason that PAF should not acquire them.Because whenever there is talk of planes there are 2 problems.

1.The logistics and experience.Since Pakistan already operates Mirage so this problem is neutralized.

2.The problem being most highlighted here by members is that despite being a good deal PAF simply does not have the money to buy them.So why don't we try credit.After all there is no shortage of money for Arabs.So a little persuasion would help.What do you say.

I mean here is JF-17 and here is second hand Mirage 2k both with the same price.But one is far more capable.And when even there is a chance of credit.I Mean how could one just walk away from such a deal???.It's a Win Win situation of Pakistan.It's very strange of PAF to ignore such deals

 

[qsaark]

Pak-Yes,

When comparing with the JF-17, there is no question that M2K is better. Its not only a tried and tested platform, its technical specifications are unmatched. There are few problems however; Indians had a bitter experience when they approached the French for their M2K upgrades; the cost was simply ridiculous. Secondly, the French are more into the Rafael and will no longer support M2K in the future. Now it does not mean that M2K will be wiped off from the face of the earth; after all the PAF is operating Mirage III/V long after the production line of these birds was closed down by the French. A more serious issue (its raised by other able members before) is that do we really need to have more than two or three types of 4th generation fighters largely similar in their capabilities? I’ll not compare M2K with JF-17, but it definitely is comparable with the F-16s and the J-10s. The answer lies in the perception of the immediate threat. As of now irrespective of what many PAF fan boys claim, PAF seriously lacks the BVR capability. PAF is inferior to its adversaries both in terms of technology as well as number. An immediate shot of these M2K-9s will add to the survivability of the PAF as a whole which is not insignificant by any means.

 

[Super Falcon]

i think paf should not buy them for sure but our navy should for anti ship warefare this will make our naval aviation edge over indian mig 29 and harriers this mirage is better than both in all aspects for sure i hope naval chief should have a look at that time and he will have affiar with them at fist sight our naval aviation is little weaken after indian mig 29 and P 8 posedian need to counter it option is infront of us mirage 2000-9 lattest in mirage fighter jet version for sure get it with weapons