UAE M2K Upgrades and the JF-17 blk1 , F-16 blk52

[BON PLAN]

Isn't mica still mono-pulse terminal seeker? let me know if it isn't the case.
Range-wise can MICA even equal AIM-120B in range?

By the way the AMRAAM we got are 'C' version.

I would have loved it if they had come free

same EM seeker than ASTER !!! and it has an IR seeker variant : you even don't see it coming. No such capacity in the US arsenal to day.
range : in excess to 70km.

Some years ago Pakistan asked for french radar (RC400) and Mica. But we prefered to stay
along India.

the first m53's i call them p1 which is for my use only you call it the regular m53 the upgraded one id the p2 and further on to the p3. one thing you need to understand the m53 was mad with modualrity in mind they intended to give it a big upgrade in the future.
what @Stephen Cohen was saying that the p3 variant is a whole new engine which im disputing.

Never heard or read anything about a P3 variant.

 

[Blue Marlin]

same EM seeker than ASTER !!! and it has an IR seeker variant : you even don't see it coming. No such capacity in the US arsenal to day.
range : in excess to 70km.

Some years ago Pakistan asked for french radar (RC400) and Mica. But we prefered to stat along India.


Never heard or read anything about a P3 variant.

ask dear @Stephen Cohen

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Never heard or read anything about a P3 variant.

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/08/Engage_02.pdf

The following is the excerpt on M 53- P 3

Lower cost of ownership, greater operability, state-of-the-art control technologies… The Snecma Moteurs M53-P2 is being transformed into the enhanced performance M53-P3 version.

The M53 engine was originally developed to power Dassault Aviation’s Mirage fighters. In 1986, it underwent a first major evolution, from the M53-5 to the current M53-P2 version.

Today, the M53-P2 powers over 500 Mirage 2000 fighters around the world, and has logged over one million hours in flight. But its career is far from over: recent market studies show that the engine will be powering front-line fighters for many years to come.

Mirage 2000s deployed by France (about half of the total fleet) will remain in service until at least 2025, while those deployed by export customers - Egypt, United Arab Emirates, Greece, India, Peru, Qatar and Taiwan - could be in operation until 2030 or even 2035.

Snecma Moteurs asked Mirage 2000 operators what changes they wanted to see in the M53-P2. Based on their answers, Snecma Moteurs focused on two areas: lowering the overall cost of ownership, and a technical upgrade to incorporate state-ofthe-art technologies on the control system and the turbines.

The enhanced engine project was dubbed the M53-P3. Design engineers identified three technical objectives: faster acceleration, improved specific fuel consumption (SFC) and simplified backup systems.

Reducing the cost of ownership depends on increasing the lifespan of hot parts, and simplifying maintainability, especially for the control system.

To meet these goals, the new engine integrates the latest technologies, for instance a 100% full authority digital engine control (FADEC); the control system is now all-digital and fully redundant.

These technologies are derived from those employed on other Snecma Moteurs engines, most notably the M88 and the CFM56.

In addition to the new control system and new turbine, the M53-P3 will also come in an optional higher-thrust version.

For the moment, this mid-life upgrade is primarily targeting the retrofit market. Customers deploying Mirage 2000 fleets will be able to retrofit their engines with the new control system and turbine.

Subsequently, all of these modifications will be applied to original equipment M53-P3 engines.


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/uae-m2k-...7-blk1-f-16-blk52.438713/page-3#ixzz4EBMKoq8H

 

[BON PLAN]

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/08/Engage_02.pdf

The following is the excerpt on M 53- P 3

Lower cost of ownership, greater operability, state-of-the-art control technologies… The Snecma Moteurs M53-P2 is being transformed into the enhanced performance M53-P3 version.

The M53 engine was originally developed to power Dassault Aviation’s Mirage fighters. In 1986, it underwent a first major evolution, from the M53-5 to the current M53-P2 version.

Today, the M53-P2 powers over 500 Mirage 2000 fighters around the world, and has logged over one million hours in flight. But its career is far from over: recent market studies show that the engine will be powering front-line fighters for many years to come.

Mirage 2000s deployed by France (about half of the total fleet) will remain in service until at least 2025, while those deployed by export customers - Egypt, United Arab Emirates, Greece, India, Peru, Qatar and Taiwan - could be in operation until 2030 or even 2035.

Snecma Moteurs asked Mirage 2000 operators what changes they wanted to see in the M53-P2. Based on their answers, Snecma Moteurs focused on two areas: lowering the overall cost of ownership, and a technical upgrade to incorporate state-ofthe-art technologies on the control system and the turbines.

The enhanced engine project was dubbed the M53-P3. Design engineers identified three technical objectives: faster acceleration, improved specific fuel consumption (SFC) and simplified backup systems.

Reducing the cost of ownership depends on increasing the lifespan of hot parts, and simplifying maintainability, especially for the control system.

To meet these goals, the new engine integrates the latest technologies, for instance a 100% full authority digital engine control (FADEC); the control system is now all-digital and fully redundant.

These technologies are derived from those employed on other Snecma Moteurs engines, most notably the M88 and the CFM56.

In addition to the new control system and new turbine, the M53-P3 will also come in an optional higher-thrust version.

For the moment, this mid-life upgrade is primarily targeting the retrofit market. Customers deploying Mirage 2000 fleets will be able to retrofit their engines with the new control system and turbine.

Subsequently, all of these modifications will be applied to original equipment M53-P3 engines.


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/uae-m2k-...7-blk1-f-16-blk52.438713/page-3#ixzz4EBMKoq8H

Thanks.
It is not an overhaul intended on french fighters. At least according to my knowledge.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Thanks.
It is not an overhaul intended on french fighters. At least according to my knowledge.

You did not need it ; we did because we knew that Rafale deal would take MANY years to be
completed

That is why in the mean time we went for such expensive upgrades on our Mirage 2000

The Mirage 2000 upgrade deal was finalised in 2011
that time Both Eurofighter and Rafale were in the race

Our Mirages have become very formidable machines --Thanks to DASSAULT

And since there is no new development in our neighbourhood we are
taking our own sweet time for Rafale

 

[ghazi768]

same EM seeker than ASTER !!! and it has an IR seeker variant : you even don't see it coming. No such capacity in the US arsenal to day.
range : in excess to 70km.

Some years ago Pakistan asked for french radar (RC400) and Mica. But we prefered to stay
along India.


Never heard or read anything about a P3 variant.

70 km is a stretch if not outright lying. MICA is still a short range missile with extended range for some BVR utility, it's claim to fame is that it has already implemented which US is trying to implement in AIM-9X block 3. But all the competition is now well above 100km in engineering ranges and that punches a massive hole in BVR tactics for MICA.

But you french have always been master of peddling the ordinary as extra-ordinary and overly greasing all the palms in the way of this. we have good experience in this

 

[volatile]

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/government-okays-2-4-bn-mirage-2000-upgrade-461390
Government okays $2.4 bn Mirage-2000 upgrade
NEW DELHI: The government has cleared a $2.4 billion deal with France for upgrading India's Mirage-2000 combat planes, informed sources said.

The deal was cleared at a meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, the sources said.

The move comes even as Defence Ministry and the Indian Air Force (IAF) top brass is split over the high cost of upgrading the IAF's 52 Mirage-2000 aircraft and the likely benefits to the country's future air power needs.

 

[BON PLAN]

70 km is a stretch if not outright lying. MICA is still a short range missile with extended range for some BVR utility, it's claim to fame is that it has already implemented which US is trying to implement in AIM-9X block 3

ANSWER : In 1996 (20 years ago !) a Taiwanese Mirage 2000-6 shoot a target at 67km. In 20 years you can imagine MICA has also evolved.
Just have a look to MICA vs AMRAAM : one has wings, the other quite not. It changes something in thin air.

 

[cerberus]

ANSWER : In 1996 (20 years ago !) a Taiwanese Mirage 2000-6 shoot a target at 67km. In 20 years you can imagine MICA has also evolved.
Just have a look to MICA vs AMRAAM : one has wings, the other quite not. It changes something in thin air.

Guy Have No Idea Abut MBDA

With

• ASRAAM - short range, IR guided
• Meteor - long range, active radar terminal homing
• MICA - IR and radar guided versions (also SAM)

MBDA Has Became the Pioneer in Next Gen Air-to-Air Missiles

 

[Tameem]

As far as UAE and Indian Mirages are concerned

This is what you can glean from the internet

1 India has ICMS MK 4 ; the latest EW / ECM suite developed for Mirages 2000

It is supposed to be very effective in jamming radars and missiles both

2 The engine is M53 P3 as compared to P2 in UAE Mirages

3 And even for IAF Mirages the RDY 2 has been customised and has got some
software upgradations

Stephen

As per this web page v2.0.6 / 01 jan 15 / greg goebel
http://www.airvectors.net/avmir2k.html
Which taken account every update in Mirage 2000 Programme since Year 2000.

There is no confirmation of any new/updated Engine to M53 P3 in Indian Mirage Updates.
As per this web page all Indian Mirages2000H went to an upgrade to Mirage2000-5 Mark2 Specs.

And Mark 2 Specs are;

Engine: M53 P2
Radar: RDY 2
EW/ECM: ICMS 3

There is absolutely no information on Web that Indian Mirages are upgraded to what your described in your above mail.
If you have any concrete information, Pls share Source.

 

[Basel]

ANSWER : In 1996 (20 years ago !) a Taiwanese Mirage 2000-6 shoot a target at 67km. In 20 years you can imagine MICA has also evolved.
Just have a look to MICA vs AMRAAM : one has wings, the other quite not. It changes something in thin air.

I have one question, just tell me when did France were able to develop JDAM equivalent for its forces?

 

[Taygibay]

just tell me when did France were able to develop JDAM equivalent for its forces?

That would be the AASM / Hammer so 2006.

You could argue that they're not the same type of munition exactly with
the A2SM costing 5 times more partially on account of a lower production
and partially because it does so much more than the JDAM in most aspects.

However, both munitions play the same role in their respective armies' tactics,
they each are the standard munition over dumb bombs and even LGBs.
Us French like more precision and fewer strikes than our US friends, that's all!

Good day, Tay.

 

[Malik Alashter]

70 km is a stretch if not outright lying. MICA is still a short range missile with extended range for some BVR utility, it's claim to fame is that it has already implemented which US is trying to implement in AIM-9X block 3. But all the competition is now well above 100km in engineering ranges and that punches a massive hole in BVR tactics for MICA.

But you french have always been master of peddling the ordinary as extra-ordinary and overly greasing all the palms in the way of this. we have good experience in this

You talk about marketing some people go shop something they don't want they just like the way it has marketed or appear.

 

[BON PLAN]

I have one question, just tell me when did France were able to develop JDAM equivalent for its forces?

It is better than a JDAM : it's the AASM , also called Hammer (highly agile modular munition extended range) in NATO.

Today a 250kg core bomb
with a booster so as to fire up to 15km on left or right of the flying line of the plane at low altitude.
max range from high altitude up to 70km.
seeker : laser, or GPS, or IR + GPS.
Induced in 2007.

tomorrow : 125kg core bomb and 1000kg one.

 

[Basel]

That would be the AASM / Hammer so 2006.

You could argue that they're not the same type of munition exactly with
the A2SM costing 5 times more partially on account of a lower production
and partially because it does so much more than the JDAM in most aspects.

However, both munitions play the same role in their respective armies' tactics,
they each are the standard munition over dumb bombs and even LGBs.
Us French like more precision and fewer strikes than our US friends, that's all!

Good day, Tay.

What I want to say is that France still developing tech which was fielded years ago by US then how their is better then US tech? F-16s can carry all weapons which F-35 can carry, did France have F-35 level tech operational?

It is better than a JDAM : it's the AASM , also called Hammer (highly agile modular munition extended range) in NATO.

Today a 250kg core bomb
with a booster so as to fire up to 15km on left or right of the flying line of the plane at low altitude.
max range from high altitude up to 70km.
seeker : laser, or GPS, or IR + GPS.
Induced in 2007.

tomorrow : 125kg core bomb and 1000kg one.

dear US fielded years ago when France didn't even have clue of this tech and you think they have stopped developing weapons. How stupid. Did France have SDBs? List can go on and on. @gambit your opinion please.

This SDB-2 can fly more then 45 miles to its target.

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/sdbii/