UAE M2K Upgrades and the JF-17 blk1 , F-16 blk52

[kaykay]

why would mods ban some one for such a mundane comparison between two versions of m2k?

By the way, 1.23 billion USD for 490 MICA, I remember we had an FMS of 650 million USD which including 500+ AIM-120s and many GBUs. French are good, really very good...

PAF ordered Aim-120s in 2006 while India ordered MICA in 2012-13( a gap of 6-7 years which itself is enough to inflate cost)... anyway there is no denying that French weapons has always been costlier though they are worth it.

 

[BON PLAN]

Bro, WE Operate the M2K in the config, that India upgraded to. The only reason they upgraded to a spec more than 13 years old is because of the kickbacks. Obviously to justify the ridiculous price tag, they have to justify it with whatever they can.

As to Spectra - will believe it when I see it.

Prove all you write please.

it cant be 40 million per bird thats way to expensive. its either wrong or the french are really good at milking india. the m53-p3 is an upgrade of the p2 what that itself is an upgrade of the p1.


post the links here it will alright providing there no trolling @Khafee you get the public specs of the uae's mk2's while @Stephen Cohen you do the same for the indian mk2 and settle this the sane way by a good logical debate.
what do you both say?

There is not M53P1.
There is M53-5 of 9 tons (6 dry)
after there was M53P2 of 9.7tons (6.7 dry)

why would mods ban some one for such a mundane comparison between two versions of m2k?

By the way, 1.23 billion USD for 490 MICA, I remember we had an FMS of 650 million USD which including 500+ AIM-120s and many GBUs. French are good, really very good...

Because MICA has a far better pk at any AMRAAM range than the AMRAAM itself.
And what kind of AMRAAM did the US sells to you? "A" models.....
And with how many $ millions military help ?

 

[ghazi768]

Prove all you write please.

Because MICA has a far better pk at any AMRAAM range than the AMRAAM itself.
And what kind of AMRAAM did the US sells to you? "A" models.....
And with how many $ millions military help ?

Isn't mica still mono-pulse terminal seeker? let me know if it isn't the case.
Range-wise can MICA even equal AIM-120B in range?

By the way the AMRAAM we got are 'C' version.

I would have loved it if they had come free

 

[Blue Marlin]

I really dont want to get into all this head ache

Only a few friends would like to read it and I can post links to them personally on their
profile pages

I dont like Uncertainity ; whether my thread will be approved ;not approved ; deleted



I tried to post the links on your profile page but could nt access it

post them here its fine

 

[Stephen Cohen]

post them here its fine

You open a thread titled F 16 block 52 Vs Mirage 2000 -I Upgraded

If the thread is allowed I will post it there

 

[Blue Marlin]

Prove all you write please.


There is not M53P1.
There is M53-5 of 9 tons (6 dry)
after there was M53P2 of 9.7tons (6.7 dry)

the first m53's i call them p1 which is for my use only you call it the regular m53 the upgraded one id the p2 and further on to the p3. one thing you need to understand the m53 was mad with modualrity in mind they intended to give it a big upgrade in the future.
what @Stephen Cohen was saying that the p3 variant is a whole new engine which im disputing.

You open a thread titled F 16 block 52 Vs Mirage 2000 -I Upgraded

If the thread is allowed I will post it there

im sure the uae has block 61's

 

[Stephen Cohen]

what @Stephen Cohen was saying that the p3 variant is a whole new engine which im disputing.

Obviously P3 would be an improvement on P2

Please read this

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/08/Engage_02.pdf

im sure the uae has block 61's

The INTEREST lies in PAF F 16 Block 52 not in block 60

 

[Blue Marlin]

Obviously P3 would be an improvement on P2

Please read this

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/08/Engage_02.pdf



The INTEREST lies in PAF F 16 Block 52 not in block 60

i thought this was blk 60 vs indian mirage or uae mirage vs indian mirage. nobody knows what spec they have on the blk52's.
im sure this thread was about indian mirages and uae mirages. where did the f16 come from?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Blue Marlin

Lower cost of ownership, greater operability, state-of-the-art control technologies… The Snecma Moteurs M53-P2 is being transformed into the enhanced performance M53-P3 version.

The M53 engine was originally developed to power Dassault Aviation’s Mirage fighters. In 1986, it underwent a first major evolution, from the M53-5 to the current M53-P2 version.

Today, the M53-P2 powers over 500 Mirage 2000 fighters around the world, and has logged over one million hours in flight. But its career is far from over: recent market studies show that the engine will be powering front-line fighters for many years to come.

Mirage 2000s deployed by France (about half of the total fleet) will remain in service until at least 2025, while those deployed by export customers - Egypt, United Arab Emirates, Greece, India, Peru, Qatar and Taiwan - could be in operation until 2030 or even 2035.

Snecma Moteurs asked Mirage 2000 operators what changes they wanted to see in the M53-P2. Based on their answers, Snecma Moteurs focused on two areas: lowering the overall cost of ownership, and a technical upgrade to incorporate state-ofthe-art technologies on the control system and the turbines.

The enhanced engine project was dubbed the M53-P3. Design engineers identified three technical objectives: faster acceleration, improved specific fuel consumption (SFC) and simplified backup systems.

Reducing the cost of ownership depends on increasing the lifespan of hot parts, and simplifying maintainability, especially for the control system.

To meet these goals, the new engine integrates the latest technologies, for instance a 100% full authority digital engine control (FADEC); the control system is now all-digital and fully redundant.

These technologies are derived from those employed on other Snecma Moteurs engines, most notably the M88 and the CFM56.

In addition to the new control system and new turbine, the M53-P3 will also come in an optional higher-thrust version.

For the moment, this mid-life upgrade is primarily targeting the retrofit market. Customers deploying Mirage 2000 fleets will be able to retrofit their engines with the new control system and turbine.

Subsequently, all of these modifications will be applied to original equipment M53-P3 engines.

i thought this was blk 60 vs indian mirage or uae mirage vs indian mirage. nobody knows what spec they have on the blk52's.
im sure this thread was about indian mirages and uae mirages. where did the f16 come from?

Dont Mind but You are a careless and LAZY reader

 

[Blue Marlin]

@Blue Marlin

Lower cost of ownership, greater operability, state-of-the-art control technologies… The Snecma Moteurs M53-P2 is being transformed into the enhanced performance M53-P3 version.

The M53 engine was originally developed to power Dassault Aviation’s Mirage fighters. In 1986, it underwent a first major evolution, from the M53-5 to the current M53-P2 version.

Today, the M53-P2 powers over 500 Mirage 2000 fighters around the world, and has logged over one million hours in flight. But its career is far from over: recent market studies show that the engine will be powering front-line fighters for many years to come.

Mirage 2000s deployed by France (about half of the total fleet) will remain in service until at least 2025, while those deployed by export customers - Egypt, United Arab Emirates, Greece, India, Peru, Qatar and Taiwan - could be in operation until 2030 or even 2035.

Snecma Moteurs asked Mirage 2000 operators what changes they wanted to see in the M53-P2. Based on their answers, Snecma Moteurs focused on two areas: lowering the overall cost of ownership, and a technical upgrade to incorporate state-ofthe-art technologies on the control system and the turbines.

The enhanced engine project was dubbed the M53-P3. Design engineers identified three technical objectives: faster acceleration, improved specific fuel consumption (SFC) and simplified backup systems.

Reducing the cost of ownership depends on increasing the lifespan of hot parts, and simplifying maintainability, especially for the control system.

To meet these goals, the new engine integrates the latest technologies, for instance a 100% full authority digital engine control (FADEC); the control system is now all-digital and fully redundant.

These technologies are derived from those employed on other Snecma Moteurs engines, most notably the M88 and the CFM56.

In addition to the new control system and new turbine, the M53-P3 will also come in an optional higher-thrust version.

For the moment, this mid-life upgrade is primarily targeting the retrofit market. Customers deploying Mirage 2000 fleets will be able to retrofit their engines with the new control system and turbine.

Subsequently, all of these modifications will be applied to original equipment M53-P3 engines.



Dont Mind but You are a careless and LAZY reader

so there we have it the p3 is an upgraded variant of the p2 not a new engine.
so how does that justify the 40 million in upgrades per bird.
oh as for being a very lazy reader thats an understatement. im verrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyy lazzzzzzyyyyyyyyyy
im dislexic i hate reading and writing that why i code instead.

i think it would be best if we compare theupgraded uae and indian mk2's
as for the links....... post them

 

[Stephen Cohen]

so there we have it the p3 is an upgraded variant of the p2 not a new engine.
so how does that justify the 40 million in upgrades per bird.
oh as for being a very lazy reader thats an understatement. im verrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyy lazzzzzzyyyyyyyyyy
im dislexic i hate reading and writing that why i code instead.

i think it would be best if we compare theupgraded uae and indian mk2's
as for the links....... post them

As far as UAE and Indian Mirages are concerned

This is what you can glean from the internet

1 India has ICMS MK 4 ; the latest EW / ECM suite developed for Mirages 2000

It is supposed to be very effective in jamming radars and missiles both

2 The engine is M53 P3 as compared to P2 in UAE Mirages

3 And even for IAF Mirages the RDY 2 has been customised and has got some
software upgradations

 

[Blue Marlin]

As far as UAE and Indian Mirages are concerned

This is what you can glean from the internet

1 India has ICMS MK 4 ; the latest EW / ECM suite developed for Mirages 2000

It is supposed to be very effective in jamming radars and missiles both

2 The engine is M53 P3 as compared to P2 in UAE Mirages

3 And even for IAF Mirages the RDY 2 has been customised and has got some
software upgradations

@Khafee your responce........

 

[Manticore]

On your profile page

You would need a Facebook account to read it

It is a facebook page

You can post your comparison here, afterall I moved your posts here from the other thread for this reason

https://defence.pk/threads/rafale-vs-f-16-block52.106105/
https://defence.pk/threads/paf-f-16-mlu-specifications-and-36-blk-52-prospects.60896/
UAE M2K Upgrades and the JF-17 blk1 , F-16 blk52

please use these jft specs from the jft presentation and make a chart comparing blk1 jft with UAE M2K

ty

 

[cerberus]

By the way, 1.23 billion USD for 490 MICA, I remember we had an FMS of 650 million USD which including 500+ AIM-120s and many GBUs. French are good, really very good

Due Even Know the Difference btw Two Missiles MBDA MICA is gen ahead version you had of AiM-120c5

 

[ghazi768]

PAF ordered Aim-120s in 2006 while India ordered MICA in 2012-13( a gap of 6-7 years which itself is enough to inflate cost)... anyway there is no denying that French weapons has always been costlier though they are worth it.

This is what we got for 650 mln$:

• 500 AIM-120C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM)
  
• 12 AMRAAM training missiles – these have seeker warheads but lack engines
  
• 200 AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinder Short-Range Air-Air Missiles; they are the version before the fifth-generation AIM-9X.
  
• 240 LAU-129/A Launchers – these support AMRAAM or Sidewinder missiles.
  
• 500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits
  
• 1,600 Enhanced Paveway GBU-12 (500 lb.) and GBU-24s (2,000 lb.) with dual laser/GPS guidance
  
• 800 MK-82 500 pound General Purpose (GP) and MK-84 2,000 pound GP bombs
  
• 700 BLU-109 2,000 pound bunker-buster bombs with the FMU-143 Fuse

Now go and make what ever inflation adjustments you need to make...

Due Even Know the Difference btw Two Missiles MBDA MICA is gen ahead version you had of AiM-120c5

I think I have extremely sharp idea when it comes to AIM-120C5, down to Rtp, Rmax ranges at different altitudes and speeds. And I may not have seen any 'HUD figures' for MICA but have good idea of what they can be.

Now rather than trying to bully me with 'generation thingy' spit out some solid figures or arguments.