Turkish Peace Operations in Syria (Operation Olive Branch) Updates & Discussions

[HannibalBarca]

Difficult situation. I think in such move by Assad we will have to work with HTS but I am also curious what will happen after. HTS is still listed as terrorist organization including by Turkey. How are we going to convince them to put down arms I don't know... I don't like it.

As I said previously, No need to push them to put down arms... They are a group , driving by an Ideology... That exist on one condition... Having "Followers".
Their Ideology, or at least their existence on the ground, is mostly because they claim to be the "True and Only One" group who are fulfilling the Original Syrian revo, aka Fight ASSad at all cost.

Their Followers are simple Syrians who took arm, most of them fought in multiple groups in those 7 years of conflict... Therefore, their "loyalty" lie in the ability of the group to maintain an anti -ASSad stance... Nothing more nothing less... That "Islamist BS" is only to the simple mind... or to Propagandist who use such "variable" to push their agendas... Since almost Every group in this conflict is "Islamist"... Where Islam and Rule are a core to every armed group... whatever it's FSA-HTS or even Hezb or those Asian Shia jihadi groups on the other side...

You want HTS out of the Picture, then make sure, they've got no followers...and for that, the simplest way to do so...is to answer the demands of those same followers...That is "Destroy ASSad and no condition" aka Continue the Revo...

If TR let down Idlib, HTS will grow, more than ever before, and FSA will be insignificant. If TR decide to protect Idlib... Then HTS ranks will melt, till they hold no significant power in this Idlib chess game...
HTS alike groups already passed by those "Diet" period in the Past... Everyone Remember Al Nusra Front... and their downfall against Ahrar al Sham...

 

[kartal1]

As I said previously, No need to push them to put down arms... They are a group , driving by an Ideology... That exist on one condition... Having "Followers".
Their Ideology, or at least their existence on the ground, is mostly because they claim to be the "True and Only One" group who are fulfilling the Original Syrian revo, aka Fight ASSad at all cost.

Their Followers are simple Syrians who took arm, most of them fought in multiple groups in those 7 years of conflict... Therefore, their "loyalty" lie in the ability of the group to maintain an anti -ASSad stance... Nothing more nothing less... That "Islamist BS" is only to the simple mind... or to Propagandist who use such "variable" to push their agendas... Since almost Every group in this conflict is "Islamist"... Where Islam and Rule are a core to every armed group... whatever it's FSA-HTS or even Hezb or those Asian Shia jihadi groups on the other side...

You want HTS out of the Picture, then make sure, they've got no followers...and for that, the simplest way to do so...is to answer the demands of those same followers...That is "Destroy ASSad and no condition" aka Continue the Revo...

If TR let down Idlib, HTS will grow, more than ever before, and FSA will be insignificant. If TR decide to protect Idlib... Then HTS ranks will melt, till they hold no significant power in this Idlib chess game...
HTS alike groups already passed by those "Diet" period in the Past... Everyone Remember Al Nusra Front... and their downfall against Ahrar al Sham...

At the moment for sure we will have to use them but at future they will have to put down arms. They are terrorist organization and the international community will act according to this including Russia, US and the EU. Its like we don't have enough problems. They are like HAMAS for Palestine. They are authorization for every force to target Idlib including even the US and the authorization is within the law and with every right they can move for it. At the moment it seems impossible to not use them but in future they must put down their arms. While their ideology is hardly Salafist the groups integrated into the National Army are far more open. Everybody can see what is happening in ES and OB areas. Sports, Culture, Human Rights are being cultivated. Will you be able to do it under
Al Qaeda leadership? Women to talk openly and live like a moderate Muslims? I don't think we would have the same result. This is dangerous. This is against any norm that is placed by Turkey. If terrorist organization with its hard Salafist ideology will have to rule in Idlib I prefer Assad to take it. This ideology is cancer that must be cured.

 

[HannibalBarca]

At the moment for sure we will have to use them but at future they will have to put down arms. They are terrorist organization and the international community will act according to this including Russia, US and the EU. Its like we don't have enough problems. They are like HAMAS for Palestine. They are authorization for every force to target Idlib including even the US and the authorization is within the law and with every right they can move for it. At the moment it seems impossible to not use them but in future they must put down their arms. While their ideology is hardly Salafist the groups integrated into the National Army are far more open. Everybody can see what is happening in ES and OB areas. Sports, Culture, Human Rights are being cultivated. Will you be able to do it under
Al Qaeda leadership? Women to talk openly and live like a moderate Muslims? I don't think we would have the same result. This is dangerous. This is against any norm that is placed by Turkey. If terrorist organization with its hard Salafist ideology will have to rule in Idlib I prefer Assad to take it. This ideology is cancer that must be cured.

PKK and affiliate are Terro Groups and yet...The west don't seems to be bothered by that in East Syria...
Same for RU with Shia Asian jihadi Terro groups or Hezbollah...

It doesn't matter, it depends on who is the sponsor...

As for why OB/ES areas does so... it's because they are safe to do so... No airstrikes, no Shelling etc... I remember the rebuilding of part of Idlib back in the days, even though they were under airstrikes, done by Every group, whatever it's Ahrar or Al Nusra...

Ppl mix those groups with the like of ISIS... They aren't "Behaving" the same... Even though The ideology may be similar... Because, the Pop involved is different... One is made of only Syrians, whatever at the top or bottom while the other is a "Foreign Power sys"...

In this Conflict, you can't remove the "Religious" factor... Syrians need it to survive.
And last FSA of Idlib "IS NOT" FSA of Afrin/Al bab... Both got different Ideologies... the One in Idlib is "almost similar" to HTS... since they are the descendant of "Ahrar al Sham"...

Idlib is a one big family... Everyone worked with one or the other... Everyone joined the other at some time of this conflict... That's why We've got those "Merging/One Front" who are formed that easily...

 

[kartal1]

PKK and affiliate are Terro Groups and yet...The west don't seems to be bothered by that in East Syria...
Same for RU with Shia Asian jihadi Terro groups or Hezbollah...

It doesn't matter, it depends on who is the sponsor...

As for why OB/ES areas does so... it's because they are safe to do so... No airstrikes, no Shelling etc... I remember the rebuilding of part of Idlib back in the days, even though they were under airstrikes, done by Every group, whatever it's Ahrar or Al Nusra...

Ppl mix those groups with the like of ISIS... They aren't "Behaving" the same... Even though The ideology may be similar... Because, the Pop involved is different... One is made of only Syrians, whatever at the top or bottom while the other is a "Foreign Power sys"...

In this Conflict, you can't remove the "Religious" factor... Syrians need it to survive.
And last FSA of Idlib "IS NOT" FSA of Afrin/Al bab... Both got different Ideologies... the One in Idlib is "almost similar" to HTS... since they are the descendant of "Ahrar al Sham"...

Idlib is a one big family... Everyone worked with one or the other... Everyone joined the other at some time of this conflict... That's why We've got those "Merging/One Front" who are formed that easily...

I don't want "Shariah" to rule in Idlib. I don't want women to walk with Buraqa but with normal Hijab. I don't want people to be beheaded, crippled, lashed and stoned for their crimes. I don't want them to pursue any Kafir they see there. I want them to have moderate system with institutions, police and army. Those are against HTS plans for Idlib. While Turkey is in that state the international community will use every tool to pressure us. We can't let our selves to be sanctioned even more because "we are helping and harboring terrorist organizations". They are going to live like people or there is no logic in letting them to form the new "Dawlat ul- Islamiyah fi Sham". This is going to bring to us more harm than good.

 

[HannibalBarca]

I don't want "Shariah" to rule in Idlib. I don't want women to walk with Buraqa but with normal Hijab. I don't want people to be beheaded, crippled, lashed and stoned for their crimes. I don't want them to pursue any Kafir they see there. I want them to have moderate system with institutions, police and army. Those are against HTS plans for Idlib. While Turkey is in that state the international community will use every tool to pressure us. We can't let our selves to be sanctioned even more because "we are helping and harboring terrorist organizations". They are going to live like people or there is no logic in letting them to form the new "Dawlat ul- Islamiyah fi Sham". This is going to bring to us more harm than good.

Well, HTS is not that... Yes they are an Islamist Driven Ideology, and "Some" people dress accordingly... but not to the extent of ISIS, were it was imposed or Death...At least for now...
As for what will be Idlib... It's quite TR decision... You can't really ask them to change in this war torn situation when a powerful sponsor like TR, decide to let down Idlib.

That's why, like I said. As long TR decide to protect Idlib at all cost, then HTS movement will melt in favor to a more TR alike rule. That's how it is.
"Fulfill my Desire, I will for yours..."

And yes, Syrians in Idlib want to live like others, But they have no choice, No other Power decided to take that role directly... so they go with the one who is "Present" and "Seems" willing to fight for them...

 

[CAN_TR]

Since when ASSad is a Friend of Turkey? The whole ASSad Dynasty was against TR since their creation...

Did you know that 2008 Erdogan invited Assad to Bodrum (Turkey) spending the Holidays together...?

I don't know what happend but after the beginning of the Syrian crisis things changed... brother Basar turned into Murder Bashar...

 

[kartal1]

Well, HTS is not that... Yes they are an Islamist Driven Ideology, and "Some" people dress accordingly... but not to the extent of ISIS, were it was imposed or Death...At least for now...
As for what will be Idlib... It's quite TR decision... You can't really ask them to change in this war torn situation when a powerful sponsor like TR, decide to let down Idlib.

That's why, like I said. As long TR decide to protect Idlib at all cost, then HTS movement will melt in favor to a more TR alike rule. That's how it is.
"Fulfill my Desire, I will for yours..."

And yes, Syrians in Idlib want to live like others, But they have no choice, No other Power decided to take that role directly... so they go with the one who is "Present" and "Seems" willing to fight for them...

Well everyone have to know when to retreat. Its obvious that we will work together with HTS on a possible offensive. Lets say we countered it and the situation is calm of negotiations. I am talking about that moment. In this process organization like HTS will not contribute to any peace process. This will lead to the partition of Syria. Every side have to make some compromises including HTS. Syria is not only for the opposition or only for the supporters of Assad. If they don't put down arms it will lead to situation in which the Syrian opposition will have to fight on its own for its survival in Idlib which will become the next Islamic State after ISIS, we will have to take ES and OB zones and we will have to live with Kurdish state being led by again terrorist organization on our southern borders and then God knows what will happen. Apart from their armed resistance capacity HTS is not bringing any good to Syria.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Well everyone have to know when to retreat. Its obvious that we will work together with HTS on a possible offensive. Lets say we countered it and the situation is calm of negotiations. I am talking about that moment. In this process organization like HTS will not contribute to any peace process. This will lead to the partition of Syria. Every side have to make some compromises including HTS. Syria is not only for the opposition or only for the supporters of Assad. If they don't put down arms it will lead to situation in which the Syrian opposition will have to fight on its own for its survival in Idlib which will become the next Islamic State after ISIS, we will have to take ES and OB zones and we will have to live with Kurdish state being led by again terrorist organization on our southern borders and then God knows what will happen. Apart from their armed resistance capacity HTS is not bringing any good to Syria.

The thing is... Even if TR counter the next offensive... that will not change great things... Yes That will send a strong message to those who want to join TR backed groups...But As long as The Revo is not over aka Partition or End of ASSad... HTS will still survive... but will be weaker.

HTS is just a name... and will die... But The Ideology don't... As long as this War continue... The ideology will survive... In time of Peace... that Ideology will transform to something more political...

 

[kartal1]

The thing is... Even if TR counter the next offensive... that will not change great things... Yes That will send a strong message to those who want to join TR backed groups...But As long as The Revo is not over aka Partition or End of ASSad... HTS will still survive... but will be weaker.

HTS is just a name... and will die... But The Ideology don't... As long as this War continue... The ideology will survive... In time of Peace... that Ideology will transform to something more political...

We need them as weak as they can be. Not now but in near future. I have similar views for HAMAS actually. I prefer moderate official armed forces with clear institutions that are not full with fake "Shariah" laws and suicide bombers. The people must understand that those things are not good for themselves. If they don't want join our groups there and to have control then we are there for nothing. I prefer Assad 100 times in front of terrorist state. We are not a country that will risk the lives of our soldiers for people that prefer terrorists. Assad knows how to deal with them. Maybe we should take our soldiers, cut the logistic supplies, take the area of the Turkmen mountain and let them face the consequences.

 

[HannibalBarca]

We need them as weak as they can be. Not now but in near future. I have similar views for HAMAS actually. I prefer moderate official armed forces with clear institutions that are not full with fake "Shariah" laws and suicide bombers. The people must understand that those things are not good for themselves. If they don't want join our groups there and to have control then we are there for nothing. I prefer Assad 100 times in front of terrorist state. We are not a country that will risk the lives of our soldiers for people that prefer terrorists. Assad knows how to deal with them. Maybe we should take our soldiers, cut the logistic supplies, take the area of the Turkmen mountain and let them face the consequences.

You can... and What?
ASSad want it all... you wouldn't be able to annex anything... and TR will lose any "Syrian support".

As for ASSad vs HTS...Well till this day... EVERY Islamist Terro actions combined since its beginning in our modern societies... Can't match ASSad's 500K casualties...
Therefore Choosing btw the two is like choosing btw Hell and Hell...

Did you know that 2008 Erdogan invited Assad to Bodrum (Turkey) spending the Holidays together...?

I don't know what happend but after the beginning of the Syrian crisis things changed... brother Basar turned into Murder Bashar...

Well... Every Dictator saw his faith in Gaddafi death...
So... He Knew, he will be the next... Therefore With ppl like them...Better stay at all cost... Even if it means to wipe out 500k of your own people... + Almost 8-10Mil refugees (and more to come)

 

[kartal1]

You can... and What?
ASSad want it all... you wouldn't be able to annex anything... and TR will lose any "Syrian support".

As for ASSad vs HTS...Well till this day... EVERY Islamist Terro actions combined since its beginning in our modern societies... Can't match ASSad's 500K casualties...
Therefore Choosing btw the two is like choosing btw Hell and Hell...

Any Syrian support? No. We can start playing another game by letting Assad control the country, paying compensation and help for the reconstruction of Syria. Russia and Iran would be happy enough. We will also have a Kurdish state on our borders. I prefer to put higher priority of the Turkish interest which is the war to stop than risk everything for a terrorist organization and its supporters. I am sorry because the wet will also burn with the dry in such scenario. HTS is not the opposition and the ideals in which we invested so much. Even the whole HTS and their supporters doesn't worth even one hair of the Turkish soldier for me. If that will bring the needed stability then I am willing to do it.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Any Syrian support? No. We can start playing another game by letting Assad control the country, paying compensation and help for the reconstruction of Syria. Russia and Iran would be happy enough. We will also have a Kurdish state on our borders. I prefer to put higher priority of the Turkish interest which is the war to stop than risk everything for a terrorist organization and its supporters. I am sorry because the wet will also burn with the dry in such scenario. HTS is not the opposition and the ideals in which we invested so much. Even the whole HTS and their supporters doesn't worth even one hair of the Turkish soldier for me. If that will bring the needed stability then I am willing to do it.

The thing is... HTS NEVER hurt TR interest, neither TR ppl...
While those you seek to "help" did and still do...

i will not open the History book again and say who was a sponsor of PKK...
Nor Will I tell you RU everlasting Pressure and animosity since...ever...
Nor IR activities toward fueling "attacks" against TR interest in Syria...

And yes, you could get "stability" by those actions... YOu are right... But it will be at the same stability lvl as those "De-escalation" zones... They will not last...
Since TR is the problem for those around...

 

[kartal1]

The thing is... HTS NEVER hurt TR interest, neither TR ppl...
While those you seek to "help" did and still do...

i will not open the History book again and say who was a sponsor of PKK...
Nor Will I tell you RU everlasting Pressure and animosity since...ever...
Nor IR activities toward fueling "attacks" against TR interest in Syria...

And yes, you could get "stability" by those actions... YOu are right... But it will be at the same stability lvl as those "De-escalation" zones... They will not last...
Since TR is the problem for those around...

We also caused troubles in those countries so we are 1:1 now. Maybe its time to open another page and cooperate against the dangers in the middle east. While treachery and empty promises were present and we were doing everything in favor of other people that will choose a terrorist organization instead of our groups our western allies are trying to bring us on our knees. In the situation and the economy we are now we can't allow ourselves to be the "savers of the Muslim Ummah" anymore. Who made them to kill innocent, behead people and blow themselves? Did Turkey gave such an instruction? No. Combined with the traitors within our ranks and government and you get the perfect situation. We are fvcked up from all sides possible. If the situation is in this state there is no use in trying to convince a terrorist organization to put down their arms as you say they are to big part of the force in Idlib, they got the local support, they got strong ideology and won't cooperate for a peaceful solution. I am thinking more and more about retreating from Syria and starting from the beginning which will be like a bad wakening up. Maybe we should normalize the ties with Assad and help Syria with civilian contribution to the stability. Enough war. If it would be war I don't want we to participate in it. If the peace don't last close the borders and enough. We can't take it anymore. Maybe Tunisia will do better

 

[OguzSenturk]

Turkey will not assist HTS scum, HTS scum already got support from CIA/Saudi/UAE. HTS is their proxy, TFSA is our proxy. One will eat another one. But the clear thing is HTS will not be the winner, someone will remove them, either Turkey or SAA. Whoever removes them will not retreat from the region.

HTS is like a golden card in region, is open to be used by anyone. It would be so stupid to let others use this card and let millions of more refugees fload into our country

 

[HannibalBarca]

We also caused troubles in those countries so we are 1:1 now. Maybe its time to open another page and cooperate against the dangers in the middle east. While treachery and empty promises were present and we were doing everything in favor of other people that will choose a terrorist organization instead of our groups our western allies are trying to bring us on our knees. In the situation and the economy we are now we can't allow ourselves to be the "savers of the Muslim Ummah" anymore. Who made them to kill innocent, behead people and blow themselves? Did Turkey gave such an instruction? No. Combined with the traitors within our ranks and government and you get the perfect situation. We are fvcked up from all sides possible. If the situation is in this state there is no use in trying to convince a terrorist organization to put down their arms as you say they are to big part of the force in Idlib, they got the local support, they got strong ideology and won't cooperate for a peaceful solution. I am thinking more and more about retreating from Syria and starting from the beginning which will be like a bad wakening up. Maybe we should normalize the ties with Assad and help Syria with civilian contribution to the stability. Enough war. If it would be war I don't want we to participate in it. If the peace don't last close the borders and enough. We can't take it anymore. Maybe Tunisia will do better

The thing is that you've got 4Mil refugees who aren't ASSad friend... + Twice in Rebel areas, who will mostly add to the 4Mil already.
So, being Friend with ASSad that openly+Coop will be a higher problem for TR...

As for TN, We did have a similar events with Libyan refugees (Almost 2Mil for a 11Mil pop), And we accepted them, in a falling economy, We couldn't let them at the border die... So Both countries TN/TR did their part, I think, when it comes to "helping".

The thing with TN, is that Gaddafi was out of the picture and the fight was among "Libyan groups" who seek power upon each others+ISIS.
And We do not have the "Military" power and "Influence" to "help" in that regard either, so If we were Next to Syria, we wouldn't have done much, except, taking in ppl.